Which graphics tools should I use for TGB?

#1 Buy from Amazon (2nd hand): (~USD$13)

Digital Character Design and Painting (Graphics Series) (Paperback)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1584502320/ref=dp_olp_2/002-3070490-8765618?%5Fencoding=UTF8


---- with it you get a bunch of software which will get you started.

WHAT IS IN THE SOFTWARE FOLDER?
In the software folder you will find a variety of PC based programs including the following from Mediachance:
DCE AutoEnhance which is a superb automatic image enhancer and batch processor.
Photo-Brush; which is an image editor, natural and artistic media painting program.
Real-DRAW PRO is an all in one drawing package that combines vector, 2D, 3D and bitmap editing and seamlessly.
UltraSnap is a superb screen capture program.
MultiMedia Builder is a Windows-based multimedia authoring http://www.mediachance.com/oldindex.htmlsystem allows you to create autorunning CD menus, Multimedia Applications on CD-ROM, Demonstrations, Presentations, MP3 players and more.

And from Ransen Software:
Gliftic V3 can be used to create tiles, textiles, and background designs. With this easy to use graphics program you will be creating colorful and unique designs within seconds.
Repligator is an award winning graphical effects program with lots of easy to use features and effects.

#2 Um... I don't know what you budget is, but if you are serious at all, go and buy Photoshop Elements 4.0. It's close enough to the "real thing" that you'll be learning real tools with the ability to upgrade to Photoshop later. It's $85 at Amazon. You can also download a 30-day trial from Adobe.

Don't mess around with "freeware art tools". You get what you pay for. Photoshop Elements will beat anything else out there at that price point.

#3 I dunno.. gimp is okay featured.. and free.. i've never used it, but probably it'd be okay for starting.

I personally think a digital camera + photoshop is the way to go. (or a vector graphics solution)

#4 I'm sorry, but you get a lot more from the gimp than you pay for. It works especially well on my tablet pc. I don't mind paying, but I see little reason to. I cut my teeth on Photoshop so I know what I'm missing, but I don't really mind since I've saved literally thousands of dollars and a whole lot of time using open source solutions - openoffice, gimp, subversion, inkscape, dotnetnuke, postgresql/sqlite... without even going into all the libraries and widgets and whatnots. Inkscape + gimp is a pretty nice combination too. The only open source product I personally haven't fallen in love with is blender, but only because I do very little in the way of 3d work, myself...
-woo

... edited for spelling :)

#5 I appreciate your take Andrew, but the question people need to ask themselves is: is your time valuable? If it is, and you can put a $ value next to an hour of your time, then if there's a commerical tool that's leaps and bounds better than freeware, it sells itself. Granted, some of us have nice paying full time jobs and we can afford the nicer toys to support our hobby, but even if you have very limited means, you should be evaluating the time/value trade off and if it makes sense your should buy the commercial product. That's just being objective. Unfortunately, some people prefer the "I only want to use free software" and make a religious crusade out of it. That's just silly. Building games is a business. Time = money. If a tool will save you time, it's worth money.

#6 Http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx

free for the moment

vector and pixel I believe

#7 Heh.. I'm certainly not a zealot and I don't mean to come off that way.
I build commercial software, I know commercial software :) ... but I think the attitude that "messing" with free/open source software is going to be a waste of time (and money) is kinda harsh. I obviously don't have any hard numbers, but I've done my fair share of graphic design work, and I'm seriously trying to think of any wasted time I've had using the gimp for doing pretty 2d backgrounds and such that would have been saved if only I had photoshop. Just the opposite really.

I believe we can agree to disagree though, and I'll leave it at that :)
-woo

#8 Sounds like a budget debate to me rather than a features debate. Perhaps we should take an obvious example. Does Garage Games products cost the earth? No. Are they high quality. Oooohhh yeah. There is even a book out on TGE which is really useful. So perahps we can say that quality isn't necessarily indicated by price tag, but it is certainly an influence. Cos at the end of the day who ever the creators are still need to be fed and have a roof over their head.

~CP

#9 Crystal and Andrew

You both have fine points, and I'm not trying to fight with anyone here, simply share my viewpoint.

To Andrew's points -- I'm sure you've done amazing things with GIMP, and I'm not trying to say GIMP is crap because it's free. However, having worked with a bunch of major game studios in my career, I don't know a single studio that uses freeware graphics tools. Every studio, across the board, uses Photoshop for art assets and textures. So, regardless of how powerful freeware tools can be, an indie developer who has aspirations of moving on to the professional side of the industry is better off learning how Photoshop works than investing themselves in free tools like GIMP.

To Crystal's point: Even GG's products, which are of good quality and cost money, are not in the same league as any of the "big name" engines. In fact, TSE while looking pretty is not even on the same level (across the board, including perf) as Quake 3 engine released to GPL. The difference? those engines cost one or two orders of magnitude more... just as Photoshop and even Photoshop Elements cost orders of magnitude more than GIMP.

My only point in this thread is to help readers think about: If you are using Torque products as a way to familarize yourself with real world game creation tools as a way to step into the industry, the more choices you make that are compatible with what real employers use, the more valuable you are. If you can make amazing art, an employer probably won't care and will hire you anyway... but they'll still probably want you to use Photoshop. :-)

#10 I'm not sure how much "cred" you get with game studios by saying you know Elements :)

I do agree if it's educational/career oriented, then stick with the big names...

Personally, I'm right square in the middle of starting my own game company (as in not just a hobby). I can't afford to look at what major (even minor?) game studios are doing and GPL'd engines aren't an option. I'm on a small budget and I don't have a lot of time. If money can be spent on tools to make me significantly more effective and especially if they result in a higher quality product in the end (ie, TGB), then it's worth it. If I get what I need out of a free tool, it's cash saved that gets to go someplace else.

I think we've bludgeoned the points good on both sides.. which means I think it's been a good discussion. :)
-woo

#11 Here is a neat paint program that has been mentioned on the forums before. I personally like this and The Gimp, though I am not much of an artist.
www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/

#12 GG is a big open source supporter/user too, we use Open Office and SVN... though we also use Photoshop, Max, and Maya. Quality tools are worth the value.

#13 I also strongly recommend Expression Graphic Designer for 2d bitmap + vector drawing w/ 3d effects. (this app was formerly Creaturehouse Expression v.3 before MS aquired CreatureHouse)

www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/graphic_designer/gd_free_trial.aspx


Alex

#14 Graphics are definitely not my forte, so I'm looking for a little advice.

I downloaded blender to use to make my 3D images. I assume I should render using Blender and then simply export to an appropriate file format to run in torque. Is this correct?

If I wish to animate the image--what is the best way to do that? Create a set of still images (a la sprites) and then "animate" them in torque? Or is there a better way to animate in blender and simply capture the result and import into torque?

Thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

#15 You can texture + animate the program in blender then export the single-frame images and create an animated sprite [edit - out of the still frames]. OR you can export to .dts and import a 3d object right into TGB!! Check out tutorials/3d shapes.pdf for some ideas.

#16 Hmm, wanted to resurrect this thread. What are folks using for making 2D images/graphics nowadays? I've been trying to use the demo version of Illustrator as well as Inkscape, and they do just about everything I want except one major thing. I'm having a bear of a time figuring out how to fill shapes with textures from files.

So, what are folks using nowadays?

#17 Photoshop for image editing, Poser for figures and SpriteForge for converting 3d textured objects (created in Wings3D, textured in Ultimate Unwrap3D) to 2d. My biggest problem so far has been consistent image quality.

I'm experimenting with using dts objects directly, but I'm not sure I'm happy with the visual quality (especially weird aspect ratio distortion and rotation hassles) so I may try and learn Blender just for rendering.

It sure would be nice to have an all in one solution!

#18 Yeah, agreed. Right now I've been using a combination of Inkscape, Illustrator and even MS Digital Image Suite (which they don't even make anymore). Each one does just about everything I want to do, but nothing does it all.

#19 If you have Illustrator and Inkscape, and can use them, you should only need a simple little tool for touching up images occasionally. Elements and GIMP are equivalent choices on Windows. Coming from zero knowledge, GIMP and Photoshop are equally unintuitive to a new user ;)

On Mac, there are some cheap commercial programs, like Pixelmator and Acorn. And Elements :)