Proposition for Gragae games.
by AllynMcelrath · in Torque Game Engine · 03/26/2006 (10:04 am) · 7 replies
I'm an indi, I'm teaching my self how to do game design and torque.
Recently I have understood the need for version control when working with multiple users on a team. Up until now I have been basically merging by hand and keeping backups myself.
I'm most likely typical torque developer, no budget other than what I want to spend, new to the world of game making, and or coding and all things that go with it.
I bet there are many people like me that use torque. The "noobs"!
Well back to the topic, what I propose is this.
I know that code weaver (torque dev) has tossed around the idea of integrating source control into that IDE, but haven't due to the lack of being able to make it useable by so many types of CVS.
Enter freepository.com, this site offers free, private repository with a CVS backend. CHEAP.
I think this site is the best alternative to sorceforge in the main respect that it's totally private and you don't have to have your project under an open source license. This (I think) make the site not violate the License for SDK owners, as if you were to upload the SDK, only those that have a license (would have to be the responsibility of the main account holder on that site) would be able to get to it. (Need confirmation or expanded rules for it). They also have plans for the paid version (its only 4$ a month) to provide a wiki for your project as well as other tool, that that priceless for indi development!
(I don't intend to post the SDK, just the other stuff.)
But they are not directly setup to support the torque default files structure (it can be, but im thinking about the noob user here).
So, what I suggest is this, Garage games works with Freereposatory to create a Template for torque projects, and in turn work with Code weaver and freereposatory to develop a (1) CVS system that works with the freereposatory torque "template".
This would set up the basics of setting up a source control for users of torque at really low cost. In turn it would also make it so that while maybe not the most robust system, it would be an easy system to use for total noobs, not to mention this type of standardization would be easy to support.
What do you guys think?
I'm not affiliated with any of these companies, but they all do have a common thread, they support independents with good serves and tools for low cost.
I also think this type of a system and "package" would help allot more indi games see the light of day.
Recently I have understood the need for version control when working with multiple users on a team. Up until now I have been basically merging by hand and keeping backups myself.
I'm most likely typical torque developer, no budget other than what I want to spend, new to the world of game making, and or coding and all things that go with it.
I bet there are many people like me that use torque. The "noobs"!
Well back to the topic, what I propose is this.
I know that code weaver (torque dev) has tossed around the idea of integrating source control into that IDE, but haven't due to the lack of being able to make it useable by so many types of CVS.
Enter freepository.com, this site offers free, private repository with a CVS backend. CHEAP.
I think this site is the best alternative to sorceforge in the main respect that it's totally private and you don't have to have your project under an open source license. This (I think) make the site not violate the License for SDK owners, as if you were to upload the SDK, only those that have a license (would have to be the responsibility of the main account holder on that site) would be able to get to it. (Need confirmation or expanded rules for it). They also have plans for the paid version (its only 4$ a month) to provide a wiki for your project as well as other tool, that that priceless for indi development!
(I don't intend to post the SDK, just the other stuff.)
But they are not directly setup to support the torque default files structure (it can be, but im thinking about the noob user here).
So, what I suggest is this, Garage games works with Freereposatory to create a Template for torque projects, and in turn work with Code weaver and freereposatory to develop a (1) CVS system that works with the freereposatory torque "template".
This would set up the basics of setting up a source control for users of torque at really low cost. In turn it would also make it so that while maybe not the most robust system, it would be an easy system to use for total noobs, not to mention this type of standardization would be easy to support.
What do you guys think?
I'm not affiliated with any of these companies, but they all do have a common thread, they support independents with good serves and tools for low cost.
I also think this type of a system and "package" would help allot more indi games see the light of day.
#2
Please expand.
Not to mention you cant realy beat the deal, 300mb for FREE....
Or 1 gig and a wiki, and other tools for 4$ month.....
I just did a quck google on SVN hots and most are 20$ and up for 50mb...
Whats SVN got that CVS dosnt? The proposial is open for sugestions... I just thought they were one and the same, and i used this site becouse it well documents,,even works threw a browser...and is CHEAP for alot of space, and i just did use the support and got a reply in less than 3 min.
03/26/2006 (10:53 am)
I dont know the diffrance. They sound like the same thing, just more like mac's are to IBM's diffrance..Please expand.
Not to mention you cant realy beat the deal, 300mb for FREE....
Or 1 gig and a wiki, and other tools for 4$ month.....
I just did a quck google on SVN hots and most are 20$ and up for 50mb...
Whats SVN got that CVS dosnt? The proposial is open for sugestions... I just thought they were one and the same, and i used this site becouse it well documents,,even works threw a browser...and is CHEAP for alot of space, and i just did use the support and got a reply in less than 3 min.
#3
I've not really looked into online cvs/svn hosting, but I do know that dreamhost provide a subversion repository on their most basic hosting plan which works out at around $8, you can get it down to around $4 if you use a promo code. For the cheapest version of their hosting you get 20gb diskspace and 1TB bandwidth p/m.
I've not used their svn hosting nor any other online though, so I can't really comment on how reliable it is or whether its good/bad value compared to other hosts.
You can always host your own though, just make sure you use stong enough passwords, host it on your network and forward the appropriate ports. It might be slow on the initial checkout if you have a limited upload speed as most broadband connections tend to, but after that the small incremental updates don't take long at all.
03/26/2006 (1:10 pm)
Allyn: Have a look over the SVN book online, it might provide you with a few reasons as to why in most cases SVN is recommended. SVN Book - FeaturesI've not really looked into online cvs/svn hosting, but I do know that dreamhost provide a subversion repository on their most basic hosting plan which works out at around $8, you can get it down to around $4 if you use a promo code. For the cheapest version of their hosting you get 20gb diskspace and 1TB bandwidth p/m.
I've not used their svn hosting nor any other online though, so I can't really comment on how reliable it is or whether its good/bad value compared to other hosts.
You can always host your own though, just make sure you use stong enough passwords, host it on your network and forward the appropriate ports. It might be slow on the initial checkout if you have a limited upload speed as most broadband connections tend to, but after that the small incremental updates don't take long at all.
#4
03/26/2006 (1:42 pm)
Hehe, i have dreamhost, guess i can just use my included subversion and don't have to install it locally! Yea for me! 
#5
I recommend them for anyone needing space. :)
03/26/2006 (4:35 pm)
I love dreamhost. I got a nice deal too from slickdeals.net. I got their biggest package for $9 for the whole year. Some promotion they ran but I love it and their SVN access.I recommend them for anyone needing space. :)
#6
But to mention a few of the big ones:
* atomar commits
* renaming directories (try that in CVS.....)
* binary diff (CVS stores each binary file as a complete copy)
03/27/2006 (7:18 am)
The SVN book link gives you all the info needed on SVN vs CVS.But to mention a few of the big ones:
* atomar commits
* renaming directories (try that in CVS.....)
* binary diff (CVS stores each binary file as a complete copy)
#7
Either way, the idea of the proposal still stands.
BUT!, i digress, as SVN VS CVS wasn't the full topic of the thread.
Another reason I was using this site is the Wiki, bug tracker and mailing list it provides. I think those are invaluable tools the make the package have allot of value for developers in our situation.
As for hosting "your own", I think for most unless you have the knowledge to do so before hand, setting them up (the SVN/CVS, wiki, bug tracker, and mailing list) are maybe a little more than most should have to concentrate on. Because in that case, you're focused (at least the lead of the project is) in administration this stuff, instead of focusing on the project. IMHO.
The basic idea is to merge things together in a package where all bases are basically covered, leaving time to manage other things, thus making the project move forward instead of focusing on logistics.
So, this really isn't supposed to be a solution for people that know how to or want to set all this stuff up, its to provide a "kit" for projects for the "noobs" if you will to have the support they need while not taxing them with 40 other things they need to learn when they should be only really concerned with the game/project at hand.
That was my line of thinking anyway.
And the CVN thing is only one part of that package (while a big one).. The goal is still the same. But it would take thies compinies working together to set this "enviroment" up for new and old users for Torque.This way, while we are working with the same engine...we are also (for the majority) working with the same tools, making it easer for us as a community to support various projects. As well as all of this being a great intro to practices of program creation, while not requiring the 5 years to understand and set up thies programs and databases, as well as hosting costs and time "wasted" on setting up that old PC you have to provide thies tools.
I think it would be a great package to enable more projects and people to use the great Torque engine.
03/27/2006 (7:24 am)
Well from what I read.. CVN is tried and tested, while SVN is relative new. Both have issues, both can allow some "conflicts". And even the makers of SVN say it's not a replacement for CVN. One is just older and more established and maybe documented. One tried to address issues of the other, but only ends up making its own issues in the processes. Seems most sites, and most places keep the two on about 50-50 level.Either way, the idea of the proposal still stands.
BUT!, i digress, as SVN VS CVS wasn't the full topic of the thread.
Another reason I was using this site is the Wiki, bug tracker and mailing list it provides. I think those are invaluable tools the make the package have allot of value for developers in our situation.
As for hosting "your own", I think for most unless you have the knowledge to do so before hand, setting them up (the SVN/CVS, wiki, bug tracker, and mailing list) are maybe a little more than most should have to concentrate on. Because in that case, you're focused (at least the lead of the project is) in administration this stuff, instead of focusing on the project. IMHO.
The basic idea is to merge things together in a package where all bases are basically covered, leaving time to manage other things, thus making the project move forward instead of focusing on logistics.
So, this really isn't supposed to be a solution for people that know how to or want to set all this stuff up, its to provide a "kit" for projects for the "noobs" if you will to have the support they need while not taxing them with 40 other things they need to learn when they should be only really concerned with the game/project at hand.
That was my line of thinking anyway.
And the CVN thing is only one part of that package (while a big one).. The goal is still the same. But it would take thies compinies working together to set this "enviroment" up for new and old users for Torque.This way, while we are working with the same engine...we are also (for the majority) working with the same tools, making it easer for us as a community to support various projects. As well as all of this being a great intro to practices of program creation, while not requiring the 5 years to understand and set up thies programs and databases, as well as hosting costs and time "wasted" on setting up that old PC you have to provide thies tools.
I think it would be a great package to enable more projects and people to use the great Torque engine.
Torque Owner Thomas \"Man of Ice\" Lund