I *Knew* all You People are Sick - CDC Game Investigation Bill

#1 Sigh.

So 90 million+ dollars later, we're going to find out what we already know. There is no solid link. But the legilators will grasp whatever out-of-context straws they can to ramrod more legislation down our throats.

"SEE! Heightened Adrenaline Levels right after playing a videogame!!!" (Nevermind the fact that's true of any game, especially sports). "Everyone knows that can cause aggressive behavior! See?? Let's make videogames illegal."

Right back to the old days when novels were going to bring about the downfall of society. People should not be wasting their time reading - it puts THOUGHTS in their heads, dang it, and that's dangerous.

I once thought politicians were just idiots. But I've recently had it demonstrated to me very clearly that they really are a bunch of extremely crooked liars. They know exactly what they are doing. They know DANG well they are distorting the truth or just plain lying. They have the evidence in front of them. They do not care, so long as they can ride any kind of public opinion. They are nothing more than the voice of mob mentality.

(Gee, can you tell I'm a little bit bitter about local politicians completely lying about something that was explained clearly to them in a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE HEARING?)

#2 It's all about riding the public opinion wave. And if there ain't no wave, then better get to work makin' one.

#3 It is as if the governments don't want anyone to develop their own opinions. In ANY country.
Where I am, the government keeps saying things like this. San Andreas, Manhunt and Getting Up: Contents under Pressure were banned, but it was still sold anyway. They seem truely powerless to enforce anything.

I invite ALL gamers to immigrate to my great nation of Australia, Free from True democracy and full of cheap Cannabis!

#4 Who was it who said the sign of a nation's downfall was the passing of unenforceable laws?

#5 According to Google, some guys in 1930's Chicago. Thats was about the Curfew on Drugs and Alcohol, not Voluntary Video Game ratings.
We don't have a constitution of Independance ;)

EDIT: It was also used as propoganda against Communism/Socialism in the 70's I beleive.

#6 If only the people who could and would make a difference could hear this stuff. Its nice to express and all, but be freindly on the database :P

#7 It doesn't take a smart person to run for city council. Goto city hall, present proper ID, pay the needed fees, run for city council. Not too long after that, you can be eligable for Mayor. May or may not be a big thing, but is really easy to do if you are a good public speaker (not many people run for city council anywhere, I live in metro area of almost 1,000,000 now, and the amount are very low).

There is a difference between a business man and an average man. An average man sees something that doesn't work and bitches about it, a business man sees something that doesn't work, makes it work and sells it.

It's all in how you look at the situation. In the case of video games, point of view can be twisted every which way (as with most things). I know in the U.S. video game will never be banned (number of gamers to non-gamers is too high), but seeing articles like these does upset one from time to time.

#8 The Roman Catholic Church banned Science and Medicine allowing thousands to die from curable diseases until people revolted. I don't think any government wants a repeat of that, alot of people became Athiest because of that.

#9 If you guys want a clearer perspective on the culture of politics there are two books you should read, Machivelli's 'The Prince' and Karl Von Klausowitz's 'On War'. The Prince outlines political manuvering and how to govern through deception and On War details how countries can use military force to steal from each other and dominate a targeted region. These books and the philoshophies they represent are the underpinning of modern politcial thought and serve as a blueprint for how politicans govern the weak and interact with each other in the circles of power.

The sad thing I find is that each work is at least 150 years old, The Prince is even older. The fact that the political gamebook hasn't changed since at least the late middle-ages paints a bleak picture of the future. And demonstrates that those in control of the social engine are completely bereft of basic morality and devoid of any sense of well-being.

I'm in my late thirties and the older I get the more I lean toward returning to the days when politicians were dragged by their feet to the crossroads and strung up by the mob as an example of what happens when you violate the public trust.

#10 What's wrong with doing studies to make sure that children aren't affected by video games?

I'm all about a smaller federal government (except Defense), but as we develop new technologies, we need to find out how they impact us. Do games train our kids in bad ways, without us realizing it? Or, are they healthy outlets for aggression?

Of course, parents probably shouldn't be letting kids have enough time on the XBox360 for it to have a profound impact, either. ;)

#11

Quote:What's wrong with doing studies to make sure that children aren't affected by video games?

Nothing at all. But it's been done. We've had NUMEROUS independent studies that have already demonstrated this.

This is political grandstanding at a cost of $90+ million of taxpayer dollars, and squandering of resources that SHOULD be better spent studying, oh, I don't know, REAL DISEASES that are killing people right now and threaten to become pandemics? Maybe? Or do I just have my priorities all screwed up here.

Nevermind. So when a 6-year-old girl is dying in a hospital of the Bird Flu, we can just explain to her parents that it's because the CDC was really, really busy proving Halo 2 doesn't turn 18-year-olds into bloodthirsty zombies and couldn't spare all the resources they could to contain or cure the disease. Them's the breaks, you know?

#12 I think Lieberman truly believes in this cause, and has some history with it. Don't know about Clinton.

Do you have any links to any of those studies? I'd love to peruse them. I can agree that if they've been done, and done well, there's likely no need for the gov't to get involved and do another.

#13 www.physorg.com/news5758.html
www.jyi.org/volumes/volume11/issue2/articles/lee.html


The only study so far that found a correlation between aggression and videogames is the HEAVILY-CITED Anderson / Dill study - the only one that actually found any measurable link whatsoever. However, the methodology didn't demonstrate causality. It also only demonstrated a correlation between aggressive behavior immediately following a session of playing a violent videogame. Nevermind the fact that ANY adrenaline-increasing activity would probably cause the same behavior. Anyway, the particular tests they did have been subject to a lot of controversy.
techreport.com/etc/2000q2/vgv/ (I love the author's "Ice Cream Consumption Causes Crime" analogy)

Another study demonstrated that children with "multiple risk factors" associated with hostility had a correlation with preferences towards violent videogames. The linkage was weak, but measurable enough to call it a success: www.mediafamily.org/research/Gentile_Lynch_Linder_Walsh_20041.pdf. Again - if you were to do the same test on some Brazillian adults following a soccer game, I'm sure you'd have even more marked results.

#14 Holywood is jealous... that's why...

#15 Westy said:
If only the people who could and would make a difference could hear this stuff. Its nice to express and all, but be freindly on the database :P

I don't see why anyone here can't make a difference, and also, so many people are so convinced that none of these laws will pass, now let me ask you, is that because none of the gamers/developers who care will actually say something against these laws instead of bitching on a forum in a rant? Everyone needs to realize that the groups that are most politically involved will take control and already HAVE control, if the entire population of gamers send an angry letter to Clinton along the lines of "Games don't make people angry and agressive, you do, so STFU u bitch! " i'm sure that not only will her mailbox not be able to take al the letters, she would likely VERY quickly back out of her current position in this bit of controversy. Politicians do whatever they ned to to get the support they need so that they can get the power they need to do whatever they feel they need and/or want to do. Even if they "believe" something, they're belief will quickly change if it seems this belief will get them into trouble.
I like how Barathae said:
" I'm in my late thirties and the older I get the more I lean toward returning to the days when politicians were dragged by their feet to the crossroads and strung up by the mob as an example of what happens when you violate the public trust. "
Unfortunately, even if this was acceptable now, it doesn't seem anyone's concerned enough on this topic that this hanging of said politicians would actually happen.

One ironic thing I read somewhere, Marc Eko's Getting Up was banned in Australia, because it's content was deemed unsuitable for the people by the government. The storyline of the game loosely concerns an oppresive government that's "killing" people's right to free speech and expression..... i love the irony, i mean, they could be that imaginary government :-p

One sad thing is that throughout history people have tried to ban things that they didn't understand and thus, feared. Every time, it has failed, and been proven that said 'thing' is not really that bad, and the real problem was the people who were foolishly trying to ban or control it. The reason this was foolish is because they controlled ti because they didn't understand it....but they were trying to control something that they again, did not fully understand.

Another sad thing is that those that feel games do result in violent behavior persist on these studies, desperately trying to think of some way they can include games in a study that may lead to a solid(if not, then at least gelatenous) conclusion that games DO cause violence, and they will stubbornly persist untill they find ONE study that shows the results they want, even if in this course they come up with a hundred studies that oppose the results they're looking for. Regardless, this one case will be milked beyond belief, because, even though through the scientific method, it would be reasoned that this one study would indicate that the 101st study is chance occurence that is certainly inccaurate.
People are easily influenced and manipulated, the reason that politics haven't changed since the middl-ages is that the majority of people are still just as easily influenced and manipulated and just plain STUPID as the peasants(and everyone else for that matter) were in the middle ages. Not enough people are going to realize that this is one study out of 101 and probably doesn't mean anything, when someone happens to fire a synapse and says "well that's just one out of hundred" the persistant fools who call for these studies will respond with an answer so as to lead them in circles and say something like "that's one too many if u ask me" or they may say "well, THIS study conclusively shows that video games are mentaly degrading and make people more violent and agressive, so the other studies must have been innacurate" and people will buy into his prewritten retort that may or may not use made-up "scientific" words that have some latin root somewhere in them, like mega, cyto, or aqua prefixes and greek root suffixes that people don't understand and won't try to.
FINALLY, i want to leave to last sayings i heard recently that fit very well in this whole rant.
"When arguing with somebody, if you mention a statistic, they'll believe you....93% of the time."
AND
"If government were a product, it would be illegal."
Somehow they both just seem so true.....

#16 Wow.... no replies after my huge as hell rant?
Two possibilities:
1. Everyone agrees wholeheartedly and doesn't feel there is a need to post anything after me.
2. Everyone has wordlessly agreed that everything I said 2 days a go is so stupid it doesn't even deserve a response.....
or maybe people stopped reading this thread......i hope it's #1 ;p

#17 Or they r just busy ;)

#18 I just couldn't be fucked reading through such a huge post. I saw the works 'Marc Eko's Getting Up was banned in Australia'. It wasn't banned, I just saw it at my local EB and BigW for $89.00

#19 Hmmm....i heard it was banned.....just because u saw it in the store doesnt mean it is there legally, though i dont know the state of people's morals there; in Bulgaria all the internet cafes have Postal 2, even though it was strictly banned. I never heard of any(bulgarian) cops there finding the morals and will to actually fine a cyber cafe (from what i saw, all of them had the game).
Whatever, i'll go with what u said.