Lightwave eyes and eyes in general
by Andy Hawkins · in Artist Corner · 03/03/2006 (8:38 am) · 15 replies
I'm putting the finishing touches on a character and now I'm stuck with the eyes. Typically they are rigged so the bones POINT at a NULL so I can have the eyes converge on a target as in real life. However this is not an IK process and so when I export to DTS using LW2DTS they don't work - just look to the left all the time.
How else do people do eyes in their models when exporting as an animated character?
How else do people do eyes in their models when exporting as an animated character?
#2
Maybe I have to bake the FK as IK??? Maybe the problem is that I'm mixing FK with IK but I thought that was possible. The eye bones dont use IK. Maybe I should just remove the eye bones completely and just move the using FK.
03/03/2006 (9:35 am)
I tried added the eye null as a node but it still looks left. The fact that it is looking left means that it's partially working because the rest position is dead ahead.Maybe I have to bake the FK as IK??? Maybe the problem is that I'm mixing FK with IK but I thought that was possible. The eye bones dont use IK. Maybe I should just remove the eye bones completely and just move the using FK.
#3
just to be clear... you didnt name the null that you have the eyes bones pointing to "eye" did you?
Becouse that name is reserved to be used by the engine to atach the First persion cameria to, Where "Eye" is first persion, and "Cam" is 3ed.
And just to be clear (doing this from mem as im at work and dont have lightwave here). You have two bones, one in each eye, with the proper Wightmap applyed, Using the the "Target" modifer..or the targeting in the motion mixer (what one?) ? Pointing at a [u]NULL[/u] that floats (dead as you say) ahead of the players face.
Correct?
Screens would help.
I guess im asking, are you using a short IK chain to link the null as a "target", or are you using the modifier (in shape properties i think...) Target?
Trying to get a clear picture of how you have this set up, but sadley i dont have my lightwave at work yet (they just orderd a new copy for me!!...)
03/03/2006 (12:02 pm)
I dont think mixing them will be an issue.just to be clear... you didnt name the null that you have the eyes bones pointing to "eye" did you?
Becouse that name is reserved to be used by the engine to atach the First persion cameria to, Where "Eye" is first persion, and "Cam" is 3ed.
And just to be clear (doing this from mem as im at work and dont have lightwave here). You have two bones, one in each eye, with the proper Wightmap applyed, Using the the "Target" modifer..or the targeting in the motion mixer (what one?) ? Pointing at a [u]NULL[/u] that floats (dead as you say) ahead of the players face.
Correct?
Screens would help.
I guess im asking, are you using a short IK chain to link the null as a "target", or are you using the modifier (in shape properties i think...) Target?
Trying to get a clear picture of how you have this set up, but sadley i dont have my lightwave at work yet (they just orderd a new copy for me!!...)
#4
Yes I have two bones, one called Left or Right_EyeBase which is an anchor, and L or R_Eye which Targets the GOAL_Eyes Null.
The pics are as follows
EyeTarg1.jpg - shows how the bones with 100% weight maps on the eye mesh force the mesh to point at the GOAL_Eyes NULL.
EyeTarg2.jpg - another close up showing the bones.
EyeTarg3.jpg - motion settings for the eye bones to point at the null
EyeTarg4.jpg - second motion settings show that it's not using IK
EyeTarg5.jpg - the first tab of the LW2DTS settings.
EyeTarg6.jpg - the second tab of the LW2DTS settings showing the mesh is being exported.
EyeTarg7.jpg - the IK settings and Animation tab showing the bones are being detected, and the nodes and animation have been set yp correctly.
EyeTarg8.jpg - the animation in ShowTools - not this is the first frame and the eyes are pointing the opposite way - thru the animation they are stuck looking to the left so something is working but it doesn't start this way in LW it start looking to the right and ends up looking to the left.
03/03/2006 (10:59 pm)
Okay firstly I didn't name the null "eye" in the strict sense, it's called GOAL_Eyes (note the cube object is called Eye Goal but the name is not exporter - it's just a helper object in the scene).Yes I have two bones, one called Left or Right_EyeBase which is an anchor, and L or R_Eye which Targets the GOAL_Eyes Null.
The pics are as follows
EyeTarg1.jpg - shows how the bones with 100% weight maps on the eye mesh force the mesh to point at the GOAL_Eyes NULL.
EyeTarg2.jpg - another close up showing the bones.
EyeTarg3.jpg - motion settings for the eye bones to point at the null
EyeTarg4.jpg - second motion settings show that it's not using IK
EyeTarg5.jpg - the first tab of the LW2DTS settings.
EyeTarg6.jpg - the second tab of the LW2DTS settings showing the mesh is being exported.
EyeTarg7.jpg - the IK settings and Animation tab showing the bones are being detected, and the nodes and animation have been set yp correctly.
EyeTarg8.jpg - the animation in ShowTools - not this is the first frame and the eyes are pointing the opposite way - thru the animation they are stuck looking to the left so something is working but it doesn't start this way in LW it start looking to the right and ends up looking to the left.
#5
Other than that im stumped......
ill have to think about this.
03/06/2006 (7:14 pm)
Did you try, EyeTarg6.jpg = setting each goal as a "NODE ONLY". and are they listed in your nodes list?Other than that im stumped......
ill have to think about this.
#6
03/07/2006 (12:30 am)
@Allyn - okay I tried that - and it didn't change the eyes. They are still firmly looking left - which is the end of the animation by the way. Interestingly the IK for the arms and legs wasn't affected if their GOAL nulls where set to NULL only or not. I think the problem I am having here is either the Point To Target is not support by the exporter or I'm mixing FK and IK when I shouldn't - but I haven't been told otherwise.
#7
more than i would the IK and FK. Becouse i have used boath of them and they do work.
Its the end of the animation?
humm...... Did you try to load up the DSQ (animation file not imbeded in the object) for your eyes? and seeing if that animated? it may have just played allthe way thre before you have seen it.
If i recall, becouse showtool can play any animation in any order, it will (and can) try to "tween" animations that (becouse you never intended them to) dont match. I have gotten some funky "tweens" by going directly from Jump to sit.. (try it its funny.) in the sequences.
Just as a side note, and not that i fully understand how to use them. But animation will run from 1 - 10 (exampile) withoutstoping when trigered. But there is another type of animation , the "blend" animation, I read them as a sort of helper Keyframe type "blend" animation... I know that the bounding of the mouse look to the head moving right to left is acomplished using this. If you looad up fluffy, and look at the (i may have the wrong file name) headlookleft animation, you will see it will just move slightly and then STAY in the last position of the animation.
Im thinking that mabye, this is what is happining here.
dont quote me....
Im no expert.
mabye someone from GG can shead some light here.
03/08/2006 (6:05 am)
I would lean to "Point To Target is not supported"more than i would the IK and FK. Becouse i have used boath of them and they do work.
Its the end of the animation?
humm...... Did you try to load up the DSQ (animation file not imbeded in the object) for your eyes? and seeing if that animated? it may have just played allthe way thre before you have seen it.
If i recall, becouse showtool can play any animation in any order, it will (and can) try to "tween" animations that (becouse you never intended them to) dont match. I have gotten some funky "tweens" by going directly from Jump to sit.. (try it its funny.) in the sequences.
Just as a side note, and not that i fully understand how to use them. But animation will run from 1 - 10 (exampile) withoutstoping when trigered. But there is another type of animation , the "blend" animation, I read them as a sort of helper Keyframe type "blend" animation... I know that the bounding of the mouse look to the head moving right to left is acomplished using this. If you looad up fluffy, and look at the (i may have the wrong file name) headlookleft animation, you will see it will just move slightly and then STAY in the last position of the animation.
Im thinking that mabye, this is what is happining here.
dont quote me....
Im no expert.
mabye someone from GG can shead some light here.
#8
03/08/2006 (6:09 am)
Also, i only see one animation in your list there, do you have this in the root animation? your idle that is.
#9
I'll report back when I have a solution.
03/08/2006 (3:02 pm)
Yes there is only the root animation while I test the rigg / character. I'm pretty sure the animation is working okay because as I adjust the animation slider in Showtools or just play it, the arms and legs move under IK and the hands clench under FK. My guess is like yours that the Point and Target is not supported and I will have to use key frames to move them because the IK for eyes is a bit of a strange concept really and doesn't work as expected.I'll report back when I have a solution.
#10
03/09/2006 (9:35 am)
Cool, sorry i couldn't be of more help.
#11
03/09/2006 (1:52 pm)
I may have a solution which I will test. "Lightwave" Dave has helped me with another issue which may fix this, by setting particular bones in a chain to FK by ticking the "Unaffected by IK of descendants". I will try that with the eyes.
#12
03/09/2006 (2:06 pm)
Well that didn't work. I'll have to wait for confirmation from Dave about the Point and Target support. 
#13
04/15/2006 (10:09 am)
STill having issues? I found that point to target does not work with the LW2DTS exporter. You should get the plugin IK2FK to convert all you Inverse Kinematincs to Forward Kinematics. that what it's guaranteed to export how it looks.
#14
04/16/2006 (3:35 pm)
I suspended work in the eyes because I found out the exporter doesn't support point and target. However I did read in another thread BakeIKToFK also works. Is there an english version of Ik2FK? I could only find a French and Japanese one.
#15
04/16/2006 (3:37 pm)
Uhm the one i have is in english. I'll send it to you. 
Torque Owner AllynMcelrath
But are you sure that the NULL you are using as a target is being exported also as "Node only"?
Look in the nodes listing in the exporter.
Infact, post some screens of each tab as you have them set for export.
Mabye target just isnt suported... Im not sure as i havent gotten that far... One of my NPC's was to have this functionality. It seems odd to me, becouse target for IK is suported, becouse i use them as "helper handles" for the rig..
I also was going to test if the "gravity" would work also.
a question i was going to post about is what exicitly gests exported when you do so, is it the positions of the vertexes that get recorded for an animation? or are the bones , in real time, deforming the mesh in the engine. Im thinking bones.
SIDE NOTE: is looking left, the resting position of the bones in the eye? if not, its odd that they are, and mabye the exporter is getting confused by the target modifier... and moving it. If you gave it a proper name, mabye try moving it with script.