What is the point of so much scripting?

#1 The name Torque Game Builder does slightly give the impression of a 'click click' there's a game, but the Level Editor in the current version does go quite a way to providing some of that functionality. But then also it does say on the product page "If you know Visual Basic (tm), Javascript, or use Flash(tm) and Actionscript(tm), you can make TGB work for you."

If you feel really aggreived, contact GG. I'm sure they'll listen, and I have seen it mentioned that refunds can be offered.

#2 I am a programmer not an artist, why doesn't T2D create my art for me too!!

#3 I have tried to contact GG and am waiting for a reply. I actually dont expect a refund because it was a download, and if they made a policy of refunding after the DL, theres a huge potential for GG getting ripped off. I just wish i could have accessed the tutorials BEFORE i had to buy the program. It would have convinced me to not go with Torque.

Im an artist. Dont expect me to code.

Matt, you can buy graphics packs, you cant buy code packs

Ill be going with this program instead:

http://www.borfnet.com/gcs2d/main.htm

#4 Sorry you feel T2D is not the product for you. But the reason for no public tutorials, code, or engine demo has been talked about quite often when people ask in the public forums. Basically, it's a form of piracy protection as full games can be made in Torquescript.

In a small effort to perhaps change your mind, Torquescript is really easy to learn. I had no formal experience in any sort of programming, and though the tutorials and supportive community I've gotten to a point over the last couple months to quickly (as in hours) make game prototypes to test the 'fun' factor. It really is rewarding. And no, I didn't have endless amounts of time and the jury is still out on the aptitude part, but I'm a firm believer if people want to learn something, they can.

Good luck with whatever program you end up using.


note to GG: as seen in the t2d vs. tgb thread, careful with the game builder title. ;)

#5 Kev, that GCS sounds awfully limiting, and there are no demos or anything available that I could see. However, looking in the 'how to' section it seems that quite a bit of it is scripted, it's just you choose things from drop down lists rather than having to type in commands.

Something like GameMaker might be better suited to you. This is just from what I've read though, as I have no experience with it directly. It allows all of the drag and drop stuff you're looking for, plus will give you the ability to script things once you're more familiar with it.

Either way, I'd suggest doing some reading around on the products before you splash any more cash.

#6 I agree... that GCS things seems a very weak
game builder developed by one single guy

Artist = can't code
Programmers = can't draw

As simple as that.

#7 The GCStudio 2D site needs a serious spell-check option. And a download option or a buy option or something. Their base site doesn't inspire me too much, though. You might try GameMaker instead.

Of course, I'm still finding this difficult to process since I have tested and played with a LOT of engines and find T2D both extensible and intuitive.

EDIT: Added GameMaker.nl link.

#8 I understand you're frustration as I'm an artist too, I was a bit shocked at what I had to work with after purchasing T2D, but I got the hang of things after a week or so.

I'd HIGHLY suggest www.gamemaker.nl though, it's free.., I had been using GameMaker before moving to T2D, GameMaker also allows for scripting incase you do want to move onto that, and the forums there are helpful.

#9 Sounds like a good chance to learn the pretty light-weight scripting T2D offers instead of hiding behind the "I'm an artist" excuse. I can understand that it's not something you know *right now* but perhaps this should be considered a learning experience instead of a give-up experience.

I do understand that the lack of available tutorials makes you take a leap of faith and spend the money to try it (and I understand both sides - piracy and n00b sides) but now that you have it, why not at least try to learn it?

#10 The other option ofcourse, is that if you are a talented artist, you could maybe get involced in a T2D project that has coders but no artists.

You can provide the artwork, and they can provide you with code. You can then start to see how it all hangs together by having someone else do the coding and showing you what's what.

#11 You all make good points. Many thanks for the Game Maker tip. As far as any type of colaberative effort, ive gone that route several times and it usually ends up me doing a ton of work, for nothing.

#12 I came to TGB from Game Maker, it's a great place to start. Drag and drop some games and it will help you understand how scripting works (the D&D interface is basically scripting but using icons instead of words).

#13 Games require programming and/or scripting. In Torque Game Builder's case you can (and will even moreso in the future) complete a game with just scripting.

Game Maker and other drag n' drop tools are great learning tools, though definately not ideal for games made for publishing.

#14 I might as well just save up me money and buy a programmer. I just cant code. Period.

#15 A game with good art and poor programming or vice versa do not mix. Only using a drag and drop editor to code or only using content packs to supply art just makes for some really mediocre games.

If you don't mind me asking, we've been kind of having a debate on the name Torque 2D vs Torque Game Builder...was your purchase influenced by the name of the product? If so, which name influenced you to make the purchase?

#16 Just to warn you.. Even with Flash, Game Maker, Multimedia Fusion or RPG Maker XP ( basically anything) you WILL need to learn some form of scripting. I've tried all of those and the only difference is that you use (lots of confusing!) Menus to do the "scripting". I of course like TGB much better, but I have programming experience so of course that may explain why. I think the editors coming with Torque make working with the engine much easier, and the documentation is growing which also helps.

There really is no magic bullet for creating game logic. I guess the easiest product for someone who absolutely refuses to write code, is "The 3D Gamemaker" at t3dgm.thegamecreators.com but I have never tried it so I can't vouch for it much..

edit: had to add flash in there ;D

#17 I have 3D Game Maker (because I collect engines, as I have noted many times before). I would not recommend it to anyone. Within moments of playing with the default levels, you've played the full range of "games" you can make. If you have ever played with limited "level creation" tools in console games...you've played with something much more in-depth and variable. From Tenchu to Tony Hawk to TimeSplitters, the level creation tools are robust and Godly in comparison.

I whole-heartedly recommend Game Maker, though. It is an excellent low-entry level engine to get people situated within the design world without the complexity of most engines. Byond is another such engine. But it takes work to make a game.

And when those developers who use Game Maker are ready to move on to a more robust engine, they can come to TGB. They will have cut their teeth on GML and make the TorqueScript translation with some difficulty....but they'll make it.

#18

Quote:I might as well just save up me money and buy a programmer. I just cant code. Period.

It's been what, 2 days? You might want to give it a little longer.

#19 For those of you who say that artists should learn to code and coders should learn art... where are you coming from? art and code can by themselves require a lifetime to master. there's a saying 'jack of all trades, master of none' this is a saying about people who spend their lives just barely getting by because they are never good enough at any one thing to get anywhere cause you CAN'T master all of them. I haven't seen one single game that shows that it's possible. and i study the projects in this community. Nobody can learn everything. That's why we need to learn to partner together and let people do what they do best. i personally know many very successful professional fine artists and they ALL suck at just using a computer. they are terrified of computers. they are not stupid people. they are just focused. and they are brilliant. and i am personally getting really tired of hearing amatures talk about how people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. if you are someone who is somehow a master of both art and code... you are unique. take advantage of your gift. it IS a gift. it's NOT because you are such a hard worker. you are lucky. don't tell everyone else to be like you though. you have an advantage. take advantage of it. and remember that the rest of the great people are only ussually great and 1 or 2 things max.

#20 I don't think anyone was suggesting that he should become a master coder. He came in here complaining about how TGB isn't drag and drop and that things have to be typed in and he would need to learn the language.

Maybe he was slightly misled by the naming of the product and the write up on the product page.

Maybe he has no interest in learning a scripting language, and is perfectly happy being limited to whatever drag and drop game creation software he can find.

Maybe he wants some kind of Vulcan mind-meld where the knowledge is just magically placed in his head. (hey, now I think of it, I want one of those too!!).

Regardless of the tools you use, you're going to have to spend some time learning them and figuring out how to get the best out of them. Using GameMaker will require just as much reading of documentation and browsing of forums in order to get going as TGB.

But now he has the license, he might as well use it and at least attempt to learn it.