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#1 (The worst part is they think making games is just like playing games.)

I don't think that anybody who is looking into game development should be that ignorant of what it takes to make a game, mostly with these new consoles coming out.

My friend wanted to join Squaresoft, he went to college for using Flash, game development, and a few other things. He told me he's not learning a damn thing. But he kept truckin'.

Now he finally graduated from college, they promised him they could find him a job.

In a sense, they took his money, dropped him on the street, and printed out a piece of paper, "degree".

Yet, he's still living with mom in an apartment working at the bowling alley. Fun.

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Now this is my personal opinion on everything having to deal with school.
A School can say you are a professional, or certified to do something

I recently had my dog fixed at an animal place. The lady went to college, and was certified to be a nurse at this place. She was new to this job, he got fixed, and we got him back with a cast around his lower area. Later that night the wound began bleeding, so we had to drive him a few miles just to make sure he would not bleed to death overnight. It cost us a bit of money to get the situation fixed, because the lady screwed it up. She missed a stitch.

And I'm thinking to myself... christ, this girl went to school because she wanted to be a nurse. Did this college truly teach her anything? Or did she just blow thousands of dollars for nothing?

My point is, if you are looking into going to college, at least make sure it is a good one, and DEFINATELY make sure that game development is EXACTLY what you do.

Professionalism and certification does NOT make you a game developer, talent does. Did Capcom make Resident Evil 4 because they know how to make games? Yes. But they made it a GREAT game thru their talents. And defiantely NOT from a school.


But the thing is, college really just holds your hand. That's all it does. These industries pick out who's certified - the people who absolutely blow at what they do.

And then there are the people who had no schooling and kick incredible ass at what they do, yet they remain unnoticed because the rich kid deserves that job, right?

Anyway, the choice is really up to you. College can be a wonderful help, or it can be a wonderful living hell. My advice is to make sure you are good at what you do, and you are POSITIVE programming is what you want to do. Now is a good time to think about it - but really, REALLY think about it.

This is coming from me, who has not gone to college and does not plan on it. Find a game company who gives a crap less about what you know how to do, - but gives a crap if you are good at it. There ARE some of them out there. A portfolio REALLY helps out, so you might want to get crackin' on one.

GG is a great place to start too man, that's why I'm here.

You got kids going to school for a degree, when you already got your own game IN DEVELOPMENT, and ready to be PUBLISHED on THE MARKET by GG.

GG is the college for game developers, you work at your own pace, you learn WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW, you enhance your skills - you do all these things a college just cannot provide, ever.


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(The worst part is they think making games is just like playing games.)

And they are the ones who get the job. Pretty stupid aint it?

To sum it up = get a portfolio going, try getting involed with something to present your work. Use college as a last resort.
College kids having a portfolio of an animated character walking down a spiral stair case is one thing - Getting a character to jump from a flying UH-60 and parachuting onto a skyscraper while shooting at enemies below is another.

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I just talked to my friend on MSN too, he left college because they were just absolute morons.

(electrical)

"over priced, teacher was out every other day, transfered me from one 600 hour course to 2 300 hour advanced courses. teacher was going to be out for 20 weeks and we had to pay for it"

That's another thing you can expect.

#2 While the points above are good examples of bad college experiences, if you go into a degree with the intent not to memorize/regurgitate/mindwipe, but instead to learn how to learn, a college degree is by far one of the best things you can do to prep for a profession--any profession.

The most important part however is to find a school that is going to teach you your goal: learning to learn. Diploma mills (be they "game dev" schools, 2 year, or even 4 year institutions) aren't going to help you with that--yet their marketers are going to try to convince you otherwise.

I guess the one-liner I'm trying to come out with here: A poor school selection is worse than useless, because it wastes valuable time as well as setting up hugely misleading expectations, but a good school selection will be well worth it.

#3 Absolutely... there are some superb schools out there.

The only difficulty is seeing what is behind the curtains of each school you may be interested in.

I'd do some heavy research.

I wanted to go to L.A. film school, which was making me giddy. Then I heard a ton of movie makers got into the industry not by going to school, but by simply making movies. Steven Spielberg is a terrific example. While the school may have been great, would I really need it? Consider the same thing with videogames - ESPECIALLY in today's day where both the movie and gaming industry are about to kiss if not have sex with one another.

#4 Mark's last points are huge...and IMO the only real reason for selecting a Game Dev school over a normal 4 year university...and only because you have a better chance of getting a resume/portfolio building project as part of your curriculum.

One thing I would stay away from myself (and it's becoming more rare) are the "soft/fuzzy" game dev schools. Study the curriculum in depth before selecting the school, and if they seem to be avoiding "harcore" subjects and are sticking to only teaching editors/tools (and yes, even if it's Torque!) then you'll be missing a lot of theory that a serious game dev studio is going to expect of a game dev engineer--matrix math being just one of the subjects I'm hinting at.

#5 Interesting. And I'd have to agree with Mark as well having seen all of his examples it time and time again. People I know who have graduated college but still have high school level jobs, people who have graduated, still don't know anything about what they went to school for, but have excelent careers just because of their degree and a connection(though I am happy for them).

I still believe that anything you can get from a school, you can do on your own but better. The only thing though is that if you can even get a company to look at your resume and demo, and then somehow manage to land a job without a degree, you will still be paid less than someone who does have one, no matter who is more tallented.

@Stephen: That's an interesting point you made about the "soft/fuzzy" game dev schools. Also, the all in one general purpose multimedia schools (might be one and the same). There is one right down the street from my mothers house where my cousin graduated. You spend a week with one program and then move on to the next. To this day he barley knows how to use Photoshop, but he has a degree that would lead you to believe otherwise.

#6 Thank you all for your replies.

@Mark(And then there are the people who had no schooling and kick incredible ass at what they do, yet they remain unnoticed because the rich kid deserves that job, right?)

That is what really scares me, the rich kids getting the good jobs. One of my friends his planning on becoming a programmer too. His family has a lot of money, so he can pretty much go anywhere he wants. I'm happy for him, but he doesn't even know the basics of C++ and he is to lazy to even attempt to learn right now. My family and I can't afford expensive schools, so even though I know more than he does, he will always have a better degree than me.

I agree with you about schools just taking your money and saying you are a professional, and not teaching you anything. I just thought it was important to get a degree to get a good job in the game industry.

I feel really reassured that people can be very successful without a college degree, and I really am grateful for all the inspiration here at garage games. It is nice to see so many people doing well in their games and companies.

@Stephan-You make an excellent point, but I haven't found a good school that is affordable. I also appreciate the warning about the "soft/fuzzy" game dev schools. Its pretty shocking that schools would only teach people how to use editors and tools.

@Ajari-I would be happy with any job in a company. I really don't expect to make a lot of money in programming, I would be content with enough money to pay for the things I need to pay for(rent, food, ect.) and the experience from that job.
I also appreciate you telling me about your cousin's college experience. When I find a school I will be sure to really look into what they teach. I don't want to get a degree, no matter how good, and not know how to do anything.

Thanks again for all your replies

Jeremy Jenkins

#7 As a recent graduate (Maine College of Art), I have to say that I think going to school is an extremely valuable experience, but like Stephen said, only if you really know what you're getting.

When I was in high school and looking into further education, I looked at a lot of schools that had game-specific curriculum. Their outlines typically read like "beginner modeling, advanced modeling, basic animation, etc etc" and talked a lot about specific programs they used to teach the course. Instead of going to a school with game specific courses, I went to a school with literally no game specific courses. Why? Because anyone can learn to use a program. It was far more valuable for me to learn to think like an artist than it was for me to learn how to model with 3ds max. The end result is that it doesn't matter if Im working Max, Maya, crayons, pencils, oils, whatever; if Im allowed time to play around and learn the tool, then Im able to make good work. If I went to a school that taught Max, Id be really good in that environment, but at the end of the day Id just be a program jockey.

Granted, you aren't looking to get into art, but I think the lesson here is transferable. Sure, school is about learning specific skills, but much more important than that, it's about evolving the way you think. You can read books to learn code syntax, but the right school can teach you how to think about problem solving in a creative way.

#8 Thanks for your reply Adam. You made a lot of sense. I must admit I never thought about it like that before. I think I will start looking more schools. I appreciate the advise.

Jeremy Jenkins

#9 Quite welcome. I always get kind of irked when i see commericals like you originally mentioned on tv. I love games. Im eternally thankful Im in this industry. It takes A LOT of work to get here though, and those commercials make it seem like a cakewalk. That being the case, I always like to give my own take.

Anyway, very happy I could help out. Good luck with your search! :)

#10 Yes the commercials are highly bogus.

On G4 I remember seeing a college commercial where these 2 kids are playing videogames. They begin talking about how awsome it is to be a videogame tester. Then this beautiful girl comes out and orders that they need to get to level __whatever__ by __whatever time__. Then she walks off and they smile and everything is rainbow butterfly happy.

* EHHHHH * Sorry that is incorrect.

It just shows you that some of these schools have advertisements like you see in everyday life. If you get this product, you look like this - If you spray this on you, girls will do this.

The fact that colleges are using marketing strategies just really shows how they only give a damn about your cash. Definately something to look out for.

#11 Hey Jeremy I wanted to share some of my experience with you, and also promote college as the way to go. When I was in high school I did not really care about school and never applied myself. I was ranked about 50% overall and barley graduated. I did not have tons of money like you and decided that community college would be the way to go, since I could barley make it out of high school. Now the summer before college started I had a crappy run of the mill job and decided that I did not want to spend my life like that. When college came around I really threw myself into it and will now be graduating with a Bachelor degree in Computer Science in a few months. College was a life changing experience for me and it was not only because of my courses. College gives you so much more then just general knowledge in a field like most if not all of the technical schools do. Your views will be challenged, you will get to meet great people, and you will learn how to learn. Personally I have grown so much in the past 4 years, and if I did not go to college I doubt I would be much different then I was in high school. I have met some great people both students and teachers. I have also gained the ability to teach myself new things, although it is not always easy. I have far exceeded my own expectations for myself as well as others. I went from being average in school to being on the top of my game. I believe anyone with enough motivation can do the same. Do not let all this fool you into thinking College is a must, because it certainly is not. I have an uncle who never went to college and owns a good portion of real estate along with some other things. No matter what you want to do in life motivation and drive will measure success, not education, or genius intelligence. If you are worried about just getting a job in the game industry, then you will probably have to rely on connections or a decent education in the field. However if you want to push yourself and really see what your made and capable of, then I believe that college is the best current outlet for that, a good college of course. Don't ever let the fact that there is competition scare you away from something either. There will always be people that are naturally smarter then you are, but determination is something I believe to be more rare and with it the skies the limit.

#12 Don't have time to read all the posts above but I graduated in december so here's my experience. I picked a school (Rowan University) with a "Comptuer Science" program that says it's 1/2 "practical application" 1/2 theory. And for me this was really good.

Like Stephen says you want to "learn how to learn". If they teach all theory, you won't know how to apply it. But if all you learn is spceific tools or even languages your in trouble. My teachers all made the point that none of the tools, technology, or languages they were teaching even existed when they got their degrees. What DID exist is the under-pinning concepts of how it all works. Thats why the in-depth background and theory of a "computer-science" degree is good, because you'll learn how to learn new languages or technolgy quickly.

Another important thing is the math. I'm not really fond of it myself, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. If you don't take the math courses your not going to make it - particularly with the next-gen rendering engines, and multi-threaded environments. I don't know if a "game-development" school teaches that.

Speaking of game development schools I laugh everytime I see the WestWood -school commercial on G4, because i've barely had time to play video games since I bought Torque. Don't buy into the fluff...

Last thing: even if your school doesn't say this you need a portfolio. Every college project you do, group or solo, make sure you get the complete final version of the program, document it and put it in your portfolio on a web-page (documentation, source-code, executable, and screenshots!). If it doesn't work when you turn it in, keep at untill it works (thats what winter and summer are for - welcome to college), then post it! If I could do one thing different in the last 5 years, it would be to do this!

My page is at: www.stevengpeterson.com notice none of the projects on my resume are in the portfolio - it's because I don't have them. What a waste, huh?

Best of Luck.

~ "No one who hasn't been to college has any clue what criteria they should judge a college on, eveyone who's done it wants a do-over. Thats why the parents are asking all the questions." - me

#13 I am off to university after summer so this isn't first hand experiance, just what I think would be benificial. I think that a degree in something specific, like "game programming" or "game creation" or what ever would not be as benificial as a degree in "computer science" or "computer studies". A more general degree should make it easier to get a job so you will not have to rely on geting into the games industry straight away. As was said above DEFINATELY look very deeply into the courses. What I've found over the past year is that all courses differ from place to place, pick one that suits you. I am strong in maths and theory so I went for a theory based course with less modules on hardware and practicals, because thats what I will enjoy the most.
Anyway the bottom line is college isn't for everyone, and just because you have the paper with degree on it doesn't mean your any better then the guy that doesn't but 4 years of school will definatetly improve your skills and probably help you develop as a person. Good luck with it all!

#14 I know I said this before, but I'll say it again. I really appreciate all the support.

@Adam- Thanks again.
@Mark- Those commercials on G4 were the ones I were refering to in my first post. They really made me angry. I can't believe a college would lie like that.
@Joshua- I really am looking forward to college, I was just nervous about whats after that. I can promise you I'm to determine to do well, I just didn't want to go into a industry with little job opportunities.(I guess that may be true for many other jobs though.) Thank you for the encouragement.
@RavenSlay3r-Thanks for the advice. I'm interested in the computer science degree now. I always thought it was best to get a specific degree, but you do make a good point. Thanks again. P.S.- I liked your website, very impressive.
@Tom-(Pretty much what I said to RavenSlay3r)- I am looking for more possible degrees than just a specific one like game programming. Thank you. Good luck in college.

Jeremy Jenkins