Map2Dif problems?
by Rodney (OldRod) Burns · in Torque Game Engine · 02/22/2006 (12:48 pm) · 9 replies
I am using 3D World Studio to work on some interiors for Minions of Mirth and have run into a problem. After a lot of experimenting, it appears that the problem is coming from Map2Dif.
Here is a picture of an arch that I am making in 3D World Studio: http://members.cox.net/rodburns/arch1.jpg
The arch is situated on a 45 degree angle in the top-down view. When I export the level and load it in MoM, I get this: http://members.cox.net/rodburns/arch2.jpg (ignore the lighting - I made it brighter to see)
First I thought it was a vertex problem with 3DWS after rotating the arch, but after experimenting, I can export the arch by itself without editing or moving it in any way and it imports into MoM just fine. I put the level back around it (again without editing or moving the arch at all), and remove only the brushes that are touching the arch in any way (just in case) and the error returns.
So, if the full level is there, the arch has an error - if I export only the arch, no error. Is that a map2dif problem? or what?
This is with map2dif_plus by the way.
Here is a picture of an arch that I am making in 3D World Studio: http://members.cox.net/rodburns/arch1.jpg
The arch is situated on a 45 degree angle in the top-down view. When I export the level and load it in MoM, I get this: http://members.cox.net/rodburns/arch2.jpg (ignore the lighting - I made it brighter to see)
First I thought it was a vertex problem with 3DWS after rotating the arch, but after experimenting, I can export the arch by itself without editing or moving it in any way and it imports into MoM just fine. I put the level back around it (again without editing or moving the arch at all), and remove only the brushes that are touching the arch in any way (just in case) and the error returns.
So, if the full level is there, the arch has an error - if I export only the arch, no error. Is that a map2dif problem? or what?
This is with map2dif_plus by the way.
#2
Here's the original brushes in 3dsmax.
Now we have the GLB3 map loaded in Quark
I then resaved the map from quark put it through map2dif to get this result in TGE 1.4
I get similar results in both map2dif and map2dif_plus.
Only map2dif_plus does offer some error messages.
Error: Brush 12 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 19 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 27 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 32 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 40 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 88 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 91 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 187 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely cau
sed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
The number of bad Brush shapes do vary depending on the scale of the original mesh. This was the best result scaled x32 to match the DIF scale from the original that was modeled 1:1
The interesting thing is that the map loads fine in quark and Deep exploration. Just doesn't parse through map2dif.
02/22/2006 (2:08 pm)
I have problems with map2dif too, but coming from GLB3 through Quark.Here's the original brushes in 3dsmax.
Now we have the GLB3 map loaded in Quark
I then resaved the map from quark put it through map2dif to get this result in TGE 1.4
I get similar results in both map2dif and map2dif_plus.
Only map2dif_plus does offer some error messages.
Error: Brush 12 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 19 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 27 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 32 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 40 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 88 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 91 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely caus
ed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
Error: Brush 187 - There are bad faces on this brush. This is most likely cau
sed by a flat or non-volumetric brush.
The number of bad Brush shapes do vary depending on the scale of the original mesh. This was the best result scaled x32 to match the DIF scale from the original that was modeled 1:1
The interesting thing is that the map loads fine in quark and Deep exploration. Just doesn't parse through map2dif.
#3
I'm not getting any error messages in map2dif_plus though - just the visual anomaly.
02/22/2006 (2:28 pm)
That's similar to what I'm seeing on some other arches elsewhere in the level (always on ones that have been rotated). Some brush faces just plain aren't there, or some are skewed like in the pic above.I'm not getting any error messages in map2dif_plus though - just the visual anomaly.
#4
I did find that scaling my file up did help clear up a lot of problems though. Just not enough to fix it.
Looking in some other threads I saw that it said that map2dif_plus does do some rounding off, so if your scene is built to a tiny scale it might have some displaced verts. But yours seems to hold together for the most part, which suggests that isn't the problem. You might want to try loading your map in quark and see what the brush checks do. they are in the drop down search menu.
things like
Find Microbrushes
Find thin faces
holes in map
broken polys and faces
basic checks
02/22/2006 (3:31 pm)
I also looked at brush checks in quark, where you can search for brush errors. it didn't find any though :(. I did find that scaling my file up did help clear up a lot of problems though. Just not enough to fix it.
Looking in some other threads I saw that it said that map2dif_plus does do some rounding off, so if your scene is built to a tiny scale it might have some displaced verts. But yours seems to hold together for the most part, which suggests that isn't the problem. You might want to try loading your map in quark and see what the brush checks do. they are in the drop down search menu.
things like
Find Microbrushes
Find thin faces
holes in map
broken polys and faces
basic checks
#5
your modling that from polygon soup?
That may be the issue, if you have invalid polygons that don't follow the guidlines of BSP style brushes the exporter wont crash, but you will have issues with your geoemtry.
I think..
02/22/2006 (4:08 pm)
Wait?your modling that from polygon soup?
That may be the issue, if you have invalid polygons that don't follow the guidlines of BSP style brushes the exporter wont crash, but you will have issues with your geoemtry.
I think..
#6
Neither Quark or Hammer complain when I put my maps through the error checks. and the BSP checker built into the 3dsmax map exporter doesn't give any errors either.
If you look at the original max image, each coloured shape represents a seperate convex hull brush. there are about 190 in total.
02/22/2006 (4:19 pm)
They are proper convex hull shapes not arbitrary polysoup meshes. That isn't the issue, and the maps load fine in everything I have tried. They just don't convert properly with Map2Dif. Neither Quark or Hammer complain when I put my maps through the error checks. and the BSP checker built into the 3dsmax map exporter doesn't give any errors either.
If you look at the original max image, each coloured shape represents a seperate convex hull brush. there are about 190 in total.
#7
Everything came out perfect when the Hammer .Map was parsed through map2dif_plus
So I guess map2dif isn't quite happy with quark and out respective apps. It's an extra step I guess but an easy one. So worth a shot. THere's info in the TDN about using it.
02/22/2006 (5:45 pm)
Hey Rodney, I tried loading my .MAP file into Hammer as suggested by Matt Fairfax, instead of Quark, and re-exporting. Everything came out perfect when the Hammer .Map was parsed through map2dif_plus
So I guess map2dif isn't quite happy with quark and out respective apps. It's an extra step I guess but an easy one. So worth a shot. THere's info in the TDN about using it.
#8
So it looks like the exporter 3D world studio is using, produces maps that map2dif doesn't quite like. I'd recommend trying hammer for your final export to dif.
02/22/2006 (6:14 pm)
Here it is in my level, as it came out of hammer. It should have a null material on it so its invisible, but then you couldn't see it so I slapped a dirty concrete on it instead :)So it looks like the exporter 3D world studio is using, produces maps that map2dif doesn't quite like. I'd recommend trying hammer for your final export to dif.
#9
02/22/2006 (7:28 pm)
Last I heard the use of Hammer was still in question for commercial projects (like MoM). 
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