Does TSE contain TGE?

#1 They are different engines. TGE does not have the shaders or the new terrain engine. TSE is still in an alpha phase, but at least one commercial game has shipped using it, so it's certainly usable.

to purchase TSE before it is released to the public though, you must already own TGE. once it is released you will not need to. though if you buy both now, you save $50 over what TSE will cost by itself, and you own both.

#2 Do you mean when TSE is release to public, it will contain TGE I will development with only TSE ,

I will do not need the TGE?

#3 Sorry i'll try to be more clear.

if you want to buy TSE later it will cost $300 after it is released to the public.

if you want to buy it now, it costs $150, but you must own TGE already which costs $100. so you save $50 in the long run.

#4 Is finished TSE include TGE ?
Or we will have to buy TSE 300$ + 100$ TGE ( for the net code )?

#5 TSE is pretty much a reworked TGE. They have taken TGE, ripped out the rendering stuff, and put in newer techniques. The rest of TGE is still in there, the net code etc. You wont have to purchase the net code seperately.

You wont need TGE to work with TSE, but to take advantage of the EA release (only), you must already own TGE. Basically, if you're already a license holder, they are letting you get the alpha version (and all future updates) earlier and for cheaper. Once TSE is done, they will release it to the public, who can buy it without licencing TGE.

#6 Hi all,

I'm new at this community and first want to say hello ;-)

Currently I'm thinking about purchasing TGE but I'm still unsure what will come in the future.
So maybe one of you can answer my following questions regarding TGE/TSE.

As I understand the previous post correctly I just have to put the TSE stuff on my computer to use it, I don't need the TGE files, since TSE is a rewritten TGE?! I only need the TGE license but don't need the TGE code to develop? Is this correct, even at the current situation with the EA release of TSE, or does this need TGE stuff to work properly?

In addition, if I now purchase TGE + TSE for 250$ will I get the final TSE release version for free? If not and I have to pay more than 50$ for the TSE release it would be obviously better to wait for the final release of TSE if it will cost 300$.
By the way, is there already a release date announced for the final TSE? Is it worth to use TSE right now or is it not as stable as it should be?

Finally I've got a question about the TLK. This is just an additional package for TGE and TSE or is it already in TSE integrated?

I know, a lot of questions, but I would appreciate any answers! Thanks a lot in advance :-)

#7 TGE is a separate engine from TSE
TSE is a separate engine from TGE

you do not have to install TGE to use TSE
you do not have to install TSE to use TGE

if you buy TGE and TSE now you do not have to pay anything else later to get the final release of TSE, its a free upgrade. if you wait until TSE goes retail you pay $300 for it.

TSE is an alpha product, but it is still usable. i wouldn't try unless you're an experienced game developer though. there is not a release date for TSE yet.

as for the TLK, i "think" that TSE has its own lighting stuff built into it. i cannot be certain though.

#8 Thanks for the answers Jesse!
That helps me a lot!

#9 I think you mistake their meaning.

TGE contain many stuff : network lib tools editors ai script etc.....
TSE contain render :water terrain shader etc ...(current release)

If I develop a game definitly I need all thing(script tools editor ...)

so

question : Does the future TSE contain stuff that already in TGE?

#10 Derek - To create TSE, Im pretty sure the GG employees started with TGE, then started ripping out rendering code and other things and putting new stuff in.

The TSE will have editors and all that wonderful stuff... and currently it contains pieces of TGE, which is good because you can use some of the TGE resources in TSE, with some adaptions.

If I had to make a guess, I'd have to say TSE will still contain lots of pieces from TGE when it is complete.

#11 Yes. For the most part, since it's early adopter (for example, there is not yet an updated Atlas terrain editor).

There is no dependency between TGE and TSE, code wise. The only tie is you must own TGE before you are allowed to buy TSE for indie licenses, and this is simply because TSE is in early adopter mode.

TGE is for games/products that must stay compatible on older systems. TSE is advanced technology that are intended for current/future systems. They are different products, and do not depend on each other (in fact, they are mutually exclusive in intent).

#12 We can't make a game which will work with TGE on old hardware, and TSE on new hardwar?
Can we do the same thing with TSE (excepte the graphic part) than we do with TGE?

#13 I don't understand your question. What rendering will you use with TSE on systems that can't support shaders or DirectX 9 (which is what TSE requires).

#14 You can make an engine with two rendering path (one with shader, and one without).

How can you achieve that with TSE or TGE?

Unless you have to make two seperate exe, and let the cutomer choose during the installation (not the best solution).

#15 Well, TSE is a lot more than a simple rendering patch to add shaders. It makes major use (say, in chunking massive terrrains with ATLAS) of the advanced graphics hardware. Trying to scale that functionality down to a software solution would be a nightmare.

#16 How's the TSE documentation? A lot of TGE engine code has very sparse documentation.

#17 Hello all. Newbie here.
Correct me if im wrong, but from what i've read on the GG website, my understanding is TSE is optimized for Rendering and TGE is optimized for gaming. I took this to mean writting games use TGE, for writting simulations etc use TSE?

Personally, i've ran the demo of TSE and it compleatly drained my 3.0ghz, 1gb Ram, 512mb GeForce system. 30fps, very jurky movement, Windows started screaming about Virtual Memory being low and the only way to exit the demo was via a handly Ctrl-Alt-Del (5 times) - But the rendering looked good for a whole 2 seconds ;) But it is in Alpha.

#18 @andy

your issue was probably a driver problem. i ran tse on a 3.0ghz intel with 1gb ram and a 128mb bfg 6800 OC under winxp sp2 and it ran fine. there were some spots where it hitched a little but i chalked that up to textures. most of the time it ran perfectly smooth. i was using the 77.77 forceware beta drivers.

TSE is going to be primarily a game engine afaik.

#19 Andy, TSE is intended to be used for creating games that take advantage of more modern hardware and/or feature large terrains. If it helps, imagine that it is called "Torque Shader Game Engine".

If the demo runs that slowly on your machine, you should ensure that you have the latest video drivers and the most recent version of DirectX. I have run it on a 1.6 GHz machine with 512 Mb RAM and a 128 Mb FX5200 video card in Win98 and still got 25-40 FPS.

#20 Now is it possible to create a game using TGE and then when it is done, and you really want to give it some polish, can you then get TSE - and in a sense - combine the two?