Mac vs Windows in going retail
by Anders Norén · in General Discussion · 01/21/2006 (12:34 pm) · 12 replies
Do you believe that it is easier to reach retial with an title for Macintosh, rather then a title for Windows? Are there Mac-only publishers?
#2
01/21/2006 (12:45 pm)
Reformulation: Does a game for both windows and macintosh have a larger cance to succeed then a game for windows only? 
#3
There are fewer retail outlets for Mac games than PC or console games. You're looking at an Apple store or a private store that carries or specializes in Macs. In my area I'm lucky to know of 3 such stores.
Also, what's your demographic? Have you done research into that market? yadda, yadda, yadda...
There are few Mac publishers (Macsoft, pangea(sp)) and they mostly do ports of games or Apple supported releases. We used to have Bungie but they turned to the "darkside" :)
As James said, why not publish to both as you'll face the same hurdles putting a title on a store shelf either way. Besides, why not go the GG route and do it as an electronic download. It will be cheaper for you in the long run - no packaging, printing, shipping, etc.
Just my 2 cents
:)
01/21/2006 (1:59 pm)
A fair question. The simple answer is no. There are fewer retail outlets for Mac games than PC or console games. You're looking at an Apple store or a private store that carries or specializes in Macs. In my area I'm lucky to know of 3 such stores.
Also, what's your demographic? Have you done research into that market? yadda, yadda, yadda...
There are few Mac publishers (Macsoft, pangea(sp)) and they mostly do ports of games or Apple supported releases. We used to have Bungie but they turned to the "darkside" :)
As James said, why not publish to both as you'll face the same hurdles putting a title on a store shelf either way. Besides, why not go the GG route and do it as an electronic download. It will be cheaper for you in the long run - no packaging, printing, shipping, etc.
Just my 2 cents
:)
#4
01/21/2006 (2:21 pm)
It was an question out of interest, not market research ;) But thanks a lot for your answer!
#5
01/21/2006 (3:07 pm)
Getting your games out on store shelves isn't actually all that hard. There are a lot of publishers offering to sell boxed copies of your games. It doesn't really offer too many benefits that I can think of since most people ignore the budget titles in stores anyway. One nice thing is that you can sell exclusive retail rights for different regions. Which can be handy if the publisher pays something up front.
#6
I see it as, YES GG HAS AN AWSOME PUBLISHING SYSTEM, but if you want to reach teenagers. Simply in my mind the best place to do it is to get your game published, with say Dreamcatcher Publishing (out of Toronto), get your product on store shelves, and in PC Gamer. The way i see it is, if GG sells 1,000 Copies and takes 10%, and the copies is at 59.99$ USD. That means you 59,990 MINUS 5999 For GG, so you net 54000 off the deal. Whereas, if you sell 400,000 Copies in stores at 59.99$ you get 23,996,000 Minus 40% = 9,598,400.
These are just figuares, but the question is, which one is worth more. If you're selling TGE Developer tools, then heres the place to sell. But if your gonna sell an MMO like MOM, or some hott FPS Game. I think publishing with someone like Dreamcatcher would be the better buy. But then thats up to you. Thats my 2 Cents, and please don't debate.
01/21/2006 (3:41 pm)
James, yes GG may have an AWSOME system! Electronic Downloads for both sides, unlock keys, the whole ball of wax. However, it eventually comes down to the croud you want to send too. If your croud is 12 - 21 Year old people you might strugle abit with GG. Think about it, how many *teenagers* browse GarageGames, then how many buy from GarageGames. I donno the exact numbers, but this is just a theoretical thing, and i don't want to start a debate. I see it as, YES GG HAS AN AWSOME PUBLISHING SYSTEM, but if you want to reach teenagers. Simply in my mind the best place to do it is to get your game published, with say Dreamcatcher Publishing (out of Toronto), get your product on store shelves, and in PC Gamer. The way i see it is, if GG sells 1,000 Copies and takes 10%, and the copies is at 59.99$ USD. That means you 59,990 MINUS 5999 For GG, so you net 54000 off the deal. Whereas, if you sell 400,000 Copies in stores at 59.99$ you get 23,996,000 Minus 40% = 9,598,400.
These are just figuares, but the question is, which one is worth more. If you're selling TGE Developer tools, then heres the place to sell. But if your gonna sell an MMO like MOM, or some hott FPS Game. I think publishing with someone like Dreamcatcher would be the better buy. But then thats up to you. Thats my 2 Cents, and please don't debate.
#7
When you look at a game like Psychonauts, which won many awards and was Marketed heavily, it's amazing how badly games can do.
Thats pretty bad, and might be why Majesco recently announced that they were dropping AAA games for the less risky budget titles.
I don't know what kinds of games you guys are making, and selling boxed versions might be worth a shot, but make sure you research things properly before jumping into something. Many indies get offered the option and don't take it up.
In my opinion getting your game in stores in most cases serves more for bragging rights and boosting your ego than doing an awful lot for your games business. Unless you have a seriously good product, very capable team and decent publisher of course.
01/21/2006 (4:34 pm)
Even with a good publisher and a fair marketing budget, the majority of AA games fail to reach 60,000 sales, which was what was required for one of my published commercial games to break even, start earning royalties and get a sequel.When you look at a game like Psychonauts, which won many awards and was Marketed heavily, it's amazing how badly games can do.
Quote:According to the most recent NPD figures, Psychonauts has moved nearly 51,000 copies on the Xbox, not quite 23,000 on the PlayStation 2, and a little more than 12,000 on the PC.
Thats pretty bad, and might be why Majesco recently announced that they were dropping AAA games for the less risky budget titles.
I don't know what kinds of games you guys are making, and selling boxed versions might be worth a shot, but make sure you research things properly before jumping into something. Many indies get offered the option and don't take it up.
In my opinion getting your game in stores in most cases serves more for bragging rights and boosting your ego than doing an awful lot for your games business. Unless you have a seriously good product, very capable team and decent publisher of course.
#8
01/21/2006 (4:49 pm)
Adrian, well said. I agree with you 110%!! I agree with the part of "researching things properly" 1010%!
#9
Cheers!
01/22/2006 (6:10 am)
Great response Adrian and useful info to chew on. Did you publish for PC only?Cheers!
#10
It's probably no surprise that the majority of Mac commercial games are typicaly the most mainstream top selling PC titles. And part of the reason many are released so late is that publishers don't want a Mac version untill the game sells well on the PC allowing them to guage it's chance of success.
Another thing that got me thinking but may be out of date now. But a few years ago, the types of games that Mac users prefered were very different to PC users which suggested a different demographic. In the late 90's Mac users typicaly prefered nintendo over Sone where games were concerned. With about 80% favouring nintendo games, whilst the PC gamers favoured the playstation by a very similar number.
Things may have changed a lot since then, but that would also suggest that Mac gamers at that time may be more susceptible to the simpler pick up and play casual games market. INteresting that Nintendo have recently decided to target the same market with their new revolution controler.
Just something else to think about.
01/22/2006 (9:55 am)
Yep, PC only. I don't really know the Mac market at all. But there are some important things to consider with the Mac, which make gauging the market difficult without experience in that platform. THeres the smaller userbase, partly countered by the lack of games both indie and commercial. It's probably no surprise that the majority of Mac commercial games are typicaly the most mainstream top selling PC titles. And part of the reason many are released so late is that publishers don't want a Mac version untill the game sells well on the PC allowing them to guage it's chance of success.
Another thing that got me thinking but may be out of date now. But a few years ago, the types of games that Mac users prefered were very different to PC users which suggested a different demographic. In the late 90's Mac users typicaly prefered nintendo over Sone where games were concerned. With about 80% favouring nintendo games, whilst the PC gamers favoured the playstation by a very similar number.
Things may have changed a lot since then, but that would also suggest that Mac gamers at that time may be more susceptible to the simpler pick up and play casual games market. INteresting that Nintendo have recently decided to target the same market with their new revolution controler.
Just something else to think about.
#11
We have found that a very substantial portion of our sales at GarageGames come from Mac users. Presumably this is due to the huge lack of games for the mac - which makes it much easier to capture the attention of the market. Particularly those users who are not interested in most of the AAA offerings due to violence or price concerns.
I would say that it is certainly a bad idea to publish mac-only, but almost as foolish to publish PC-only, especially if you are using Torque or another easily cross-platform technology.
Having said that, it IS very difficult to land a box deal for the mac. Then again, it is also very difficult for an indie to do that on the PC. The estimate above that a retailer/distributor would only take 40% was very optimistic. 80% or more is more likely. And don't expect 400,000 box sales unless your name is Valve or Blizzard.
01/23/2006 (12:32 pm)
Your main advantage in publishing cross-platform will be the huge vacuum of content that exists in the Mac game market. Publish for the PC and you will have about a 30 times larger market, but you will also have 100 time or more the number of competitors for that market.We have found that a very substantial portion of our sales at GarageGames come from Mac users. Presumably this is due to the huge lack of games for the mac - which makes it much easier to capture the attention of the market. Particularly those users who are not interested in most of the AAA offerings due to violence or price concerns.
I would say that it is certainly a bad idea to publish mac-only, but almost as foolish to publish PC-only, especially if you are using Torque or another easily cross-platform technology.
Having said that, it IS very difficult to land a box deal for the mac. Then again, it is also very difficult for an indie to do that on the PC. The estimate above that a retailer/distributor would only take 40% was very optimistic. 80% or more is more likely. And don't expect 400,000 box sales unless your name is Valve or Blizzard.
#12
1) Why not include both binaries in the same box?
2) Mac people love talking about software available on their systems. Word of mouth is huge in the mac market.
02/04/2006 (4:49 pm)
Well, two points I'd like to add:1) Why not include both binaries in the same box?
2) Mac people love talking about software available on their systems. Word of mouth is huge in the mac market.
Torque 3D Owner James Bond