Problems in TGE 1.4 (ALT+TAB and others)
by Jorge Luis Gandulfo · in Torque Game Engine · 01/16/2006 (12:49 am) · 27 replies
1 - Since i installed 1.4 i had a few problems like few game freezes sometimes.
But the thing that bothered me most, is the inability to Alt+Tab with OPENGL driver and FULLSCREEN, since im not the only one having this problem, i think this is not a machine Specific thing.
Don't tell me this is an issue number #xxx i already know that, Don't tell me to upgrade my Drivers either couse i already did, don't tell me to play arround changing and saving configurations couse i did that already.
I tried it on 4 totally different computers that i have here, and 2 in my friends home, and it didn't worked.
So Far nothing i have readed in the forum solved my problem, anybody figured out the exact problem or how to fix it?
2 - If this problem can't be fixed, anybody knows when are we expecting a TGE 1.4 patch version?
3 - For what i have readed this is one of th last upgrades for TGE, i would gladly switch to TSE if any of the Demos worked in any machine i tried em, without freezing or lagging.
Anybody using TSE can tell me what is the actual features that TGE had that are working on TSE?
TGE has a lot of things, that i don't see in the TSE feature list, and i don't think im going TSE until that features are included.
Note: I loved the new TGE 1.4 features, and i wish somebody can help me solve this problem out so i can start using it, thanks a lot.
But the thing that bothered me most, is the inability to Alt+Tab with OPENGL driver and FULLSCREEN, since im not the only one having this problem, i think this is not a machine Specific thing.
Don't tell me this is an issue number #xxx i already know that, Don't tell me to upgrade my Drivers either couse i already did, don't tell me to play arround changing and saving configurations couse i did that already.
I tried it on 4 totally different computers that i have here, and 2 in my friends home, and it didn't worked.
So Far nothing i have readed in the forum solved my problem, anybody figured out the exact problem or how to fix it?
2 - If this problem can't be fixed, anybody knows when are we expecting a TGE 1.4 patch version?
3 - For what i have readed this is one of th last upgrades for TGE, i would gladly switch to TSE if any of the Demos worked in any machine i tried em, without freezing or lagging.
Anybody using TSE can tell me what is the actual features that TGE had that are working on TSE?
TGE has a lot of things, that i don't see in the TSE feature list, and i don't think im going TSE until that features are included.
Note: I loved the new TGE 1.4 features, and i wish somebody can help me solve this problem out so i can start using it, thanks a lot.
#2
01/16/2006 (11:56 am)
Don't tell me i have to answer this question COUSE i wont... *points at stephen* case and point ;)
#3
you could run linux and then start another xserver and then ctrl+alt+f8 to get to that one and then ctrl+alt+f7 to get to the fullscreen opengl.
01/16/2006 (12:48 pm)
Why not just run opengl in a window?you could run linux and then start another xserver and then ctrl+alt+f8 to get to that one and then ctrl+alt+f7 to get to the fullscreen opengl.
#4
It's a known issue and it'll be fixed in 1.4.1.. Assuming you're talking about the issue where an alt-tab with a fullscreen app causes the Torque window to go away, but the process to remain - I can't tell if that's the case or not because you spent more time telling us what not do, than what the actual problem is. :) If it's a new issue, then I'd love to hear a fuller report so that I can get it on our bug tracker so that we can plan to fix it!
01/16/2006 (12:51 pm)
Don't whine. ;)It's a known issue and it'll be fixed in 1.4.1.. Assuming you're talking about the issue where an alt-tab with a fullscreen app causes the Torque window to go away, but the process to remain - I can't tell if that's the case or not because you spent more time telling us what not do, than what the actual problem is. :) If it's a new issue, then I'd love to hear a fuller report so that I can get it on our bug tracker so that we can plan to fix it!
#5
01/16/2006 (1:01 pm)
Yes Ben, that's the issue. When in full-screen mode if you Alt-Tab out of the TGE then the process remains and no-doubt continues to actually run yet you have no way of getting back to the window. You have to stop the process for it to finally relieve. Also, I don't think you can stop the program, I think you have to actually stop the process itself.
#6
Remember, kind words always get you further than hostile ones. :)
01/16/2006 (1:49 pm)
If you need a quick fix, go copy (I believe) winVideo.cc from 1.3 over. It should take care of it; there's a fix we did for a resolution clobbering issue that has a side effect of eating the window. D'oh! So will get fixed in 1.4.1, which is coming in not too many weeks. Meanwhile you can revert it by copying that file over, or by mailing MattF very nicely and asking him for a patch.Remember, kind words always get you further than hostile ones. :)
#7
01/16/2006 (2:19 pm)
*beavis and butthead pops into my head* he said 'eating the window' huh huh.. heh.. huh
#8
I just want to use 1.4, but this error really freak me out, everytime i ALT+TAB i have to go kill the process myself.
To be honest i loved the work you did with 1.4 and again as i told you, I WANT to use it!
>Ben: Thanks for the quick fix, i will do that until you release 1.4.1.
All the information that i can give you about this is that it happens only in OPENGL driver with FULL SCREEN, and is not either OS or Hardware specific, i tested new and old NVIDIA an ATI cards, and W2K and XP, all to have the same response.
01/16/2006 (2:38 pm)
>Stephen: Sorry if my post sounded to negative, but other posts related to this matter, had responses that didnt solved the problem, to my knowledge this error isnt machine specific or hardware related, i had it on DIFF kind of computers with diff kind of video cards, thats why i didnt specified my system configuration.I just want to use 1.4, but this error really freak me out, everytime i ALT+TAB i have to go kill the process myself.
To be honest i loved the work you did with 1.4 and again as i told you, I WANT to use it!
>Ben: Thanks for the quick fix, i will do that until you release 1.4.1.
All the information that i can give you about this is that it happens only in OPENGL driver with FULL SCREEN, and is not either OS or Hardware specific, i tested new and old NVIDIA an ATI cards, and W2K and XP, all to have the same response.
#9
01/16/2006 (3:14 pm)
@jorge - you can change the resolution and make it very large without putting full screen on and then you can easily alt-tab away and back to it as well. i find this easier simply because i can be reading something by placing the text around the TGE window so that i can do things in-game while being told what to do out-of-game.
#10
ATM, after years of going arround torque, playing with it here and there, i decided to do a serious game project, and i would love to be able to start this project in 1.4, but unless i solve this, i can only play with all this new features and do nothing else.
>Ben: About winVideo.cc file, did you meant winWindow.cc ? couse there is only a Voodo winV2Video.cc file or something.
01/17/2006 (4:00 am)
I know Jonathon, while testing 1.4 i simply used it in windowed mode, but you know thats not a solution. If you wan't to use 1.4 to start a "real project" im not sure, your users will be happy about it tough.ATM, after years of going arround torque, playing with it here and there, i decided to do a serious game project, and i would love to be able to start this project in 1.4, but unless i solve this, i can only play with all this new features and do nothing else.
>Ben: About winVideo.cc file, did you meant winWindow.cc ? couse there is only a Voodo winV2Video.cc file or something.
#11
Anyway, try commmenting out this block on line 613 of winOGLVideo.cc and see how that treats you:
01/17/2006 (10:11 am)
It's WinOGLVideo.cc, actually.Anyway, try commmenting out this block on line 613 of winOGLVideo.cc and see how that treats you:
// Destroy the window:
if ( winState.appWindow )
{
Con::printf( "Destroying the window..." );
DestroyWindow( winState.appWindow );
winState.appWindow = NULL;
}
#12
I just tried your suggestion, recompiled and now my app seems to be working perfectly. This was a big issue for me as well. When I first noticed the problem, I spent a few hours comparing files and trying to figure out what the problem was. Unfortunately, solving it was beyond me, so this code change really is a lifesaver.
Thanks for the fix.
Aaron E.
01/17/2006 (10:46 am)
Ben,I just tried your suggestion, recompiled and now my app seems to be working perfectly. This was a big issue for me as well. When I first noticed the problem, I spent a few hours comparing files and trying to figure out what the problem was. Unfortunately, solving it was beyond me, so this code change really is a lifesaver.
Thanks for the fix.
Aaron E.
#13
Thanks a lot Ben, this worked for me as well.
What was intended with that line of code, to be honest, i can't find any use to it, since you already destroy the Window in another part of the code that seems to be enough.
Anyway im very happy now, thanks to you i can gladly start using 1.4 for my first serious Torque Project, wish me luck :).
Note: Sorry again if my post was to hard, but this was a really big issue for me, as this is a very big issue for any gamer that plays any game.
01/17/2006 (3:58 pm)
Ben:Thanks a lot Ben, this worked for me as well.
What was intended with that line of code, to be honest, i can't find any use to it, since you already destroy the Window in another part of the code that seems to be enough.
Anyway im very happy now, thanks to you i can gladly start using 1.4 for my first serious Torque Project, wish me luck :).
Note: Sorry again if my post was to hard, but this was a really big issue for me, as this is a very big issue for any gamer that plays any game.
#14
The reason for the code change was to fix a more subtle issue relating to some video drivers ending up with clobbered resolution settings. Unfortunately, it appears our fix had a regression in it, which managed to sneak out (it was late in the game on 1.4 dev) to you, the licensee. So, we've decided we can live with some video drivers getting confused, and 1.4.1 will have this fix in it (or something functionally similar).
And because we sell you the code to Torque, you can fix it without waiting for a hotfix to come out. :)
01/17/2006 (4:15 pm)
It was pretty harsh, and I think a lot of developers would tell you to hit the road when they read one like it. :)The reason for the code change was to fix a more subtle issue relating to some video drivers ending up with clobbered resolution settings. Unfortunately, it appears our fix had a regression in it, which managed to sneak out (it was late in the game on 1.4 dev) to you, the licensee. So, we've decided we can live with some video drivers getting confused, and 1.4.1 will have this fix in it (or something functionally similar).
And because we sell you the code to Torque, you can fix it without waiting for a hotfix to come out. :)
#15
If you want to yell at someone, click Ben's name and find his personal email address ;)
01/17/2006 (4:19 pm)
Jorge, the thing about these forumns that you need to remember is that they aren't a direct "line" to garage games employees. Most of the time you are going to get solutions and replies from other developers like yourself who really have no vested interest in replying to your posts other than to be helpful. So when you are harsh in your posts, then you can't expect people to willingly help you out.If you want to yell at someone, click Ben's name and find his personal email address ;)
#16
Please direct all support requests to the forums unless you happen to have some prior project or agreement with GG or myself. :) That way you can get the attention of multiple employees (note Stephen's post) as well as community members (note all the posts here that aren't from Stephen or I or the original poster :).
There are lots of issues that the community poses and then resolves in a short time period without ever involving an official GG employee, which I think is one of the beautiful things about the GG community. And I don't say that just because I'm lazy. ;) It means that the community can become huge and address many, many issues without ever requiring a dedicated army of support people. I think that people would rather GG focus on improving our tech, site, and generally advancing the goals of indie game making, instead of answering every forum thread. :)
01/17/2006 (4:35 pm)
Which is a great way to get on my ignore filter. ;)Please direct all support requests to the forums unless you happen to have some prior project or agreement with GG or myself. :) That way you can get the attention of multiple employees (note Stephen's post) as well as community members (note all the posts here that aren't from Stephen or I or the original poster :).
There are lots of issues that the community poses and then resolves in a short time period without ever involving an official GG employee, which I think is one of the beautiful things about the GG community. And I don't say that just because I'm lazy. ;) It means that the community can become huge and address many, many issues without ever requiring a dedicated army of support people. I think that people would rather GG focus on improving our tech, site, and generally advancing the goals of indie game making, instead of answering every forum thread. :)
#17
It's as if TGE has somehow affected some alt Tab flag in Windows. I don't know if its generic or just specific to my hardware/driver setup.
02/22/2006 (3:11 pm)
Ben, just so you know, I tried the fix, it does allow the alt Tab to return you to the game afterwards. But if you then quit the game and try and alt Tab through any other open windows, nothing happens. i.e. alt Tab no longer works. It did work while the game was running.It's as if TGE has somehow affected some alt Tab flag in Windows. I don't know if its generic or just specific to my hardware/driver setup.
#18
I just tried to duplicate your problem with my app (fix applied) to see what would happen. The Alt+Tab works while my app is running and after I've exited. I don't have any problems with Alt+Tab with TGE and Windows since I applied the fix. Maybe it's something unique with your rig/app/os.
Aaron E.
02/23/2006 (12:04 pm)
Duncan,I just tried to duplicate your problem with my app (fix applied) to see what would happen. The Alt+Tab works while my app is running and after I've exited. I don't have any problems with Alt+Tab with TGE and Windows since I applied the fix. Maybe it's something unique with your rig/app/os.
Aaron E.
#19
My rig has a duel GF6600 running in SLI mode, so that might be the cause of some of the abnormal window behaviour I sometimes get.
02/23/2006 (12:58 pm)
Thanks Aaron, I'm sure a lot of people will sleep easier knowing that, I will anyway. My rig has a duel GF6600 running in SLI mode, so that might be the cause of some of the abnormal window behaviour I sometimes get.
#20
sometimes (really rare) I have also problems with "ALT+TAB" on my PC..
my pc config:
P4, 3GHz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9600 256MB, running Torque in windowed mode on OpenGL..
So far I found that if I press alt+tab while Torque is (heavy) loading objects or doing relight, the "alt" key somehow becomes "stuck".. not sure how to describe that..
e.g. if I go back to TGE and trying to press TAB to switch first/third person view, it's not working... and NOW if I press ENTER - TGE switches fullscreen mode.. If I press ALT - the window with all application running is in front, as I can't get it goes away... even I close TGE, this window still in front of all application.. Alt+Tab is working.. but does not disappear.. I do the following - Win+L (lock workstation/logoff) and then login back.. everything is fine...
hope this helps
02/23/2006 (1:13 pm)
Hmm.. been watching this thread from the begining.. but just found time for my "two cents".sometimes (really rare) I have also problems with "ALT+TAB" on my PC..
my pc config:
P4, 3GHz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9600 256MB, running Torque in windowed mode on OpenGL..
So far I found that if I press alt+tab while Torque is (heavy) loading objects or doing relight, the "alt" key somehow becomes "stuck".. not sure how to describe that..
e.g. if I go back to TGE and trying to press TAB to switch first/third person view, it's not working... and NOW if I press ENTER - TGE switches fullscreen mode.. If I press ALT - the window with all application running is in front, as I can't get it goes away... even I close TGE, this window still in front of all application.. Alt+Tab is working.. but does not disappear.. I do the following - Win+L (lock workstation/logoff) and then login back.. everything is fine...
hope this helps
Torque 3D Owner Stephen Zepp
I don't mean to be rude here, but with all the "don't tell me to do xxx" comments, you probably are telling people "don't answer this". It would be much more attractive for people wanting to help you out if you simply listed the things you've tried already, instead of being blunt about it :)
[/soapbox]
It's also much simpler for people to help you debug if you list:
OS + hardware
Graphics card + driver version (latest isn't what we need, but specific version)
Any console errors/warnings that are specific to video.