So, TGE 1.4 is the last free update?
by Rant Mallory · in Torque Game Engine · 01/05/2006 (4:48 am) · 17 replies
Isnt that quite rough to expect that the costumer will PAY for every update that should "FIX BUGS"?
I go to unity its the better engine and free updates.
I go to unity its the better engine and free updates.
About the author
#2
01/05/2006 (8:29 am)
Will you offer a way to Buy TSE without buying TGE? 
#3
Later, I think GG will make proposals for guying it without buying TGE.
So now only two ways:
1. wait for release of TSE
2. buy TSE EA version after buying TGE SDK (I did it)
01/05/2006 (8:37 am)
For the moment it's possible (TSE in EA mode).Later, I think GG will make proposals for guying it without buying TGE.
So now only two ways:
1. wait for release of TSE
2. buy TSE EA version after buying TGE SDK (I did it)
#4
This should obviously say that it's impossible.
01/05/2006 (8:51 am)
Quote:
For the moment it's possible (TSE in EA mode).
This should obviously say that it's impossible.
#5
01/05/2006 (8:55 am)
Yeah.. sorry for the typoo .. programming for more than 15 hours... you know.. ;)
#6
I just wanted to say that if you are interested in TSE, then maybe you should consider to buy TGE and TSE (Early adopter). This way you will have both products for 250$. If you wait for it to get out of early adopter release, you will have to pay 295$.
This is clearly explained in the TSE product page.
Bye,
Jacopo
01/05/2006 (8:59 am)
Hi Rant.I just wanted to say that if you are interested in TSE, then maybe you should consider to buy TGE and TSE (Early adopter). This way you will have both products for 250$. If you wait for it to get out of early adopter release, you will have to pay 295$.
This is clearly explained in the TSE product page.
Bye,
Jacopo
#7
01/05/2006 (9:06 am)
Not to mention GG has to make money so charging for support on a legacy product would be a good idea. And besides if the product only cost 100 bux to buy I am sure the updates can't be more than like 50 bux. My concern is Once TSE takes over since I am so slow at learning things I am wondering if my project willl have to be re-written in order to work with TSE.
#8
no linux.. no gl.
no interest.
01/05/2006 (9:39 am)
Yea its just too bad TSE is so far behind with support..no linux.. no gl.
no interest.
#9
Note that Unity has a free upgrade to any 1.x version. That usually means that 2.x will be a paid upgrade as well. Enjoy.
It's a nice engine, but I don't know if you've actually done much research into it if you didn't notice that on the purchase page.
01/05/2006 (11:26 am)
I can't think of another software package that charges for updates. Adobe, Alias, Discreet, Newtek. Okay, maybe I can think of a few.Note that Unity has a free upgrade to any 1.x version. That usually means that 2.x will be a paid upgrade as well. Enjoy.
It's a nice engine, but I don't know if you've actually done much research into it if you didn't notice that on the purchase page.
#10
01/05/2006 (11:55 am)
Jeff Tunnell posted this on another forum thread "Official Clarification" on 1.4 info..."Quote:Hey guys, regarding the last free major update issue. We have not charged for a Torque update in the four or so years it has been on the market. It took us about a year to go from 1.3 to 1.4, yet we didn't charge Torque owners a dime for the upgrade. We have continuously worked on the engine, and continued to give away free upgrades.
We could have said nothing about this and just charged an upgrade for the next version. Instead, we decided to be honest and let you know what to expect in the future. When you buy Photoshop or Dreamweaver or Flash, you always know there will be an unpgrade in that you will have to puchase in the future. We are now saying that Torque is no different. Some day, there will be a new version of the $100 TGE, but for now, we have just released a shiny new fixed function pipeline engine that is being used by commercial developers, NASA, educational institutions, and developers around the world. You know your development investment is protected if you ever want to upgrade to shader technology and higher end graphics cards or even if you want to bring your game to consoles.
The only difference is that for the first time we have said that the next version of Torque will require current owners to pay an upgrade price. Of course, you are never required to upgrade to the new version. Torque is perfectly capable of shipping games, and you can add anything to the engine you want by writing it yourself. If our update saves you time or does something that you want, then you will have to decide if our reasonably priced upgrade fee is worth it to you (don't ask how much, we don't know yet... but, have we ever been unreasonable?).
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
#11
Oh come on Donald.. rewritten? You've been here long enough to know that TSE is *very much* like TGE and gameplay functions won't be changed much, if at all.. since they both use the same scripting language and many of the internal functions in the actual engine are, yes in fact, the same.
Just don't worry about it (: It will be a breeze.
01/05/2006 (12:06 pm)
Quote:
My concern is Once TSE takes over since I am so slow at learning things I am wondering if my project willl have to be re-written in order to work with TSE.
Oh come on Donald.. rewritten? You've been here long enough to know that TSE is *very much* like TGE and gameplay functions won't be changed much, if at all.. since they both use the same scripting language and many of the internal functions in the actual engine are, yes in fact, the same.
Just don't worry about it (: It will be a breeze.
#12
I use mostly free to next to free programs to work on my games so if your next upgrade is what I need then of course I would plop down some more money for it. As long as it is reasonable :)
Now the enegine does everyhting you could need within reason.. You still have to supply the effort, but most of the hard stuff is done.
And if there is a resource available then hey even better.. :)
Now as far as TSE, I dont think I would upgrade to it as I am doing fine but I say if GG wants to work full time on it then hey rock on.. :)
TomFeni
01/05/2006 (12:23 pm)
Never Jeff, This is the best deal I have ever had.. I am just a hobbyist so for me to plop down 100 for TGE and another 80 for T2D was the greatest thing I ever did.I use mostly free to next to free programs to work on my games so if your next upgrade is what I need then of course I would plop down some more money for it. As long as it is reasonable :)
Now the enegine does everyhting you could need within reason.. You still have to supply the effort, but most of the hard stuff is done.
And if there is a resource available then hey even better.. :)
Now as far as TSE, I dont think I would upgrade to it as I am doing fine but I say if GG wants to work full time on it then hey rock on.. :)
TomFeni
#13
I would imagine that GG will release all major bug fixes as free updates. By major I'm thinking along the lines of "do xyz and the engine crashes/freezes" or "this code is broken on the mac" not "I loaded a 1million poly model and the engine crashed". The latter been someone using the engine beyond its intended limits and would probably have to fix that themselves ( although theres still the forum to try to get support :) )
As for paying for upgrades, I don't see it as a problem. The updates are going to have to be significant in order to persuade people to part with their cash and upgrade, which means even more tech/features for us to leaverage and not have to spend time developing.
Also just because future upgrades will need to be bought, there might be a dual pricing stucture eg $100 to buy new or $50 if you're upgrading to 1.9 from perhaps the last two major versions say 1.8 or 1.7. That way those that always keep upgraded get a bit of a discount to those that may wait years then want to upgrade. I'm sure we'll hear more about this as and when an update ships though.
and finally, just because updates may involve a cost, it does not mean GG cannot release some updates for free. They just have the oppertunity to do either. We may very well see 1.5 been a free upgrade. Or perhaps 1.5 will contain significant new features and be charged for, but then 1.6 may be a free upgrade for 1.5 owners etc.
Either way, I think it makes sound business sense for GG to charge for certain updates. If you look at maya or 3dsmax their upgrades are pretty much the price of the software again unless you're on a annual maintainance scheme.
01/09/2006 (5:24 am)
Quote:Isnt that quite rough to expect that the costumer will PAY for every update that should "FIX BUGS"?
I would imagine that GG will release all major bug fixes as free updates. By major I'm thinking along the lines of "do xyz and the engine crashes/freezes" or "this code is broken on the mac" not "I loaded a 1million poly model and the engine crashed". The latter been someone using the engine beyond its intended limits and would probably have to fix that themselves ( although theres still the forum to try to get support :) )
As for paying for upgrades, I don't see it as a problem. The updates are going to have to be significant in order to persuade people to part with their cash and upgrade, which means even more tech/features for us to leaverage and not have to spend time developing.
Also just because future upgrades will need to be bought, there might be a dual pricing stucture eg $100 to buy new or $50 if you're upgrading to 1.9 from perhaps the last two major versions say 1.8 or 1.7. That way those that always keep upgraded get a bit of a discount to those that may wait years then want to upgrade. I'm sure we'll hear more about this as and when an update ships though.
and finally, just because updates may involve a cost, it does not mean GG cannot release some updates for free. They just have the oppertunity to do either. We may very well see 1.5 been a free upgrade. Or perhaps 1.5 will contain significant new features and be charged for, but then 1.6 may be a free upgrade for 1.5 owners etc.
Either way, I think it makes sound business sense for GG to charge for certain updates. If you look at maya or 3dsmax their upgrades are pretty much the price of the software again unless you're on a annual maintainance scheme.
#14
However, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a new licence owner for my upgrades... I'm not talking about having multiple prices depending on the length of time one has had their license.. but a Existing License upgrade price and a New Owner Price.
I'd expect to pay $50 for 1.5 of TGE.
The TSE question is important too, The EA Price is $150, will there be an upgrade from TGE to TSE?.. or will existing TGE owners have to buy into the TSE Technology as if they were new to Torque?
As TSE moves closer to its official release, more people will be wondering if they should jump to TSE.. eventually, there'll be more TSE licence owners than TGE and TGE will eventually die out as everyone will want shader coolness in their games. Eventually there'll be no more support for TGE. It has to happen one day.
Will TSE have a couple of version updates free to existing TSE customers in the same way as TGE did? or is this the new way GG is doing things, paying for updates like any other product on the market?
Not complaining, like I said. I don't mind paying.
01/09/2006 (6:09 am)
I don't mind paying for updates to TGE, every time I look at the code I'm reminded of how much I got for my puny $100 to expect GG to support this code forever is wooly thinking of the highest order.However, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a new licence owner for my upgrades... I'm not talking about having multiple prices depending on the length of time one has had their license.. but a Existing License upgrade price and a New Owner Price.
I'd expect to pay $50 for 1.5 of TGE.
The TSE question is important too, The EA Price is $150, will there be an upgrade from TGE to TSE?.. or will existing TGE owners have to buy into the TSE Technology as if they were new to Torque?
As TSE moves closer to its official release, more people will be wondering if they should jump to TSE.. eventually, there'll be more TSE licence owners than TGE and TGE will eventually die out as everyone will want shader coolness in their games. Eventually there'll be no more support for TGE. It has to happen one day.
Will TSE have a couple of version updates free to existing TSE customers in the same way as TGE did? or is this the new way GG is doing things, paying for updates like any other product on the market?
Not complaining, like I said. I don't mind paying.
#15
I'd be more than happy to pay $100+ for the next version of torque.
01/09/2006 (6:20 am)
Quote:I'd expect to pay $50 for 1.5 of TGE.
I'd be more than happy to pay $100+ for the next version of torque.
#16
There are a lot of Torque owners. If each of them paid $50 for their upgrades, that's a fair chunk of cash... Of course if they paid $100 for their upgrade that's twice as much GG might make more money... but why stop there.. why not $400, $500... then only those who could seriously afford it or were commited to making something from their hobby would purchase the license. It would cut out quite a lot of their original market.
The AAA Game engine for $100 was a stroke of genius. A lot of people who wanted to make a game and maybe sell it ( but lacked an engine within their budget which let them ) could do.
I hope that doesn't change too much.
01/09/2006 (6:37 am)
Well, that would mean they'd be putting the price up for everyone. Which would put Torque out of reach from some hobbiests..There are a lot of Torque owners. If each of them paid $50 for their upgrades, that's a fair chunk of cash... Of course if they paid $100 for their upgrade that's twice as much GG might make more money... but why stop there.. why not $400, $500... then only those who could seriously afford it or were commited to making something from their hobby would purchase the license. It would cut out quite a lot of their original market.
The AAA Game engine for $100 was a stroke of genius. A lot of people who wanted to make a game and maybe sell it ( but lacked an engine within their budget which let them ) could do.
I hope that doesn't change too much.
#17
01/10/2006 (1:44 pm)
Just think of how many books you would have to buy in order to build an engine like Torque. 
Associate Fyodor -bank- Osokin
Dedicated Logic
Let's call it "last major free upgrade".
I'm not sure if GG have plans of developing 1.5 version. Looks like no, as TSE coming to be the main product.