Tools Max, Maya, Softimage XSI, Milkshape, etc..
by Ernest A Booth · in Torque Game Engine · 03/02/2002 (2:11 pm) · 31 replies
I am hoping to find a good group of people here that are the ones creating tools for game development. I have about 2 years in the industry writing tools for Max, Maya & stand alone tools. Tools are one of the most over looked parts of the development process. Most companies don't schedule any time for development of tools or if they do it is to build a quick exporter. To change this mind set I want to create a community that is interested in innovative tools to speed development up, make development easier & by that create much better games.
#2
What makes this exporter so different then the current exporters avalible. The answer is dynamic file format creation & a floating frontend.
First the dynamic file format. Instead of having to change your code every time you add something new to the file format or take something out all you need to do is use this tool. Imagine this: On the left of your screen is a list of attributes that can be exported from the paticular 3D program you are using (Max, Maya, etc). On the right is a list of your file format. Each of the item in the list on the left is linked to an item on the right by dragging a line from one side to the other. You can also drag multiple lines from one item to a single item on the other side. We will use color as and example:
Max--------------------------------------->Torque
RGB (struct)-------------------------------> RGBA(struct)
Alpha ------------------------------------/
It's a bit hard to draw here, but you get the idea. In this example Max has a structure called RGB and a different value called alpha. The problem is we need to link these values together to create the RGBA struct in the torque dts format. So this shows the ability to do this quickly and easily. I will add some better graphics later to show this better.
The second part is the floating frontend. This allows you to add buttons to a Max or Maya exporter from with in this file format program. All the parts of the interface a programable with in the program it self by double clicking an element. Math functions will be avalible to do create things that your program may need like normals, that are not normally exported from the art program.
I would love to hear input about this tool and about other tools that everyone is working on. I plan on giving this tool away for free to Garage Games members.
03/02/2002 (2:32 pm)
So I will be the first to start this discussion off. I am currently working on 2 tools for the torque engine. The first is an exporter for Maya 4. Now for most of you this is not a tool that you will use, but the API for Maya is so much better then anything else out there so I like to play around with it better then Max. I will port the same tool to Max when I am done. What makes this exporter so different then the current exporters avalible. The answer is dynamic file format creation & a floating frontend.
First the dynamic file format. Instead of having to change your code every time you add something new to the file format or take something out all you need to do is use this tool. Imagine this: On the left of your screen is a list of attributes that can be exported from the paticular 3D program you are using (Max, Maya, etc). On the right is a list of your file format. Each of the item in the list on the left is linked to an item on the right by dragging a line from one side to the other. You can also drag multiple lines from one item to a single item on the other side. We will use color as and example:
Max--------------------------------------->Torque
RGB (struct)-------------------------------> RGBA(struct)
Alpha ------------------------------------/
It's a bit hard to draw here, but you get the idea. In this example Max has a structure called RGB and a different value called alpha. The problem is we need to link these values together to create the RGBA struct in the torque dts format. So this shows the ability to do this quickly and easily. I will add some better graphics later to show this better.
The second part is the floating frontend. This allows you to add buttons to a Max or Maya exporter from with in this file format program. All the parts of the interface a programable with in the program it self by double clicking an element. Math functions will be avalible to do create things that your program may need like normals, that are not normally exported from the art program.
I would love to hear input about this tool and about other tools that everyone is working on. I plan on giving this tool away for free to Garage Games members.
#3
I dont think anyone here Owns Maya..
I've been wrong before
....I think Max is more common and it is not owned by everyone im sure .. as the money our company layed down for it was not easy to find :)
Milkshape .. and other free tools are what it will take to open up this market ..
interested in your tool but ..
I dont fully understand the implementation..
ive no need to change any of the current filetype code at this time as it is designed so flexible it needs no changes
03/02/2002 (2:46 pm)
honestly tho,I dont think anyone here Owns Maya..
I've been wrong before
....I think Max is more common and it is not owned by everyone im sure .. as the money our company layed down for it was not easy to find :)
Milkshape .. and other free tools are what it will take to open up this market ..
interested in your tool but ..
I dont fully understand the implementation..
ive no need to change any of the current filetype code at this time as it is designed so flexible it needs no changes
#4
03/02/2002 (5:09 pm)
The tool sounds promising, I would add a vote to get it ready for MAX or Milkshape ASAP, as apposed to Maya. I can get Maya but it seriously depletes pizza money. The artists that I have can not afford to get a tool like this except for the new free version they have available, but this does not have plug in options available.
#5
I don't see why people see maya as out of price but max not.
Maya builder and Max 4.2 are about
03/02/2002 (6:05 pm)
Ernest, sent you some mail about maya exporter.I don't see why people see maya as out of price but max not.
Maya builder and Max 4.2 are about
#6
I did a search and I see what you mean by a lot of people are in need of a Maya exporter. The funny thing is that most people have this idea that creating a Maya exporter is harder then creating a Max exporter. I am guessing that is because they have never created either. Anyhow I fully intend to create a quick
Maya->Torque exporter first so all of these people have something and then I will work on the more complex exporter.
[RANT]The more that I read these forums I am thinking that most people on here are in High School or have no idea what they are doing. That is cool with me, but I wish they would stop adding there two cents if they don't have a clue.[/RANT]
03/02/2002 (10:24 pm)
Steve,I did a search and I see what you mean by a lot of people are in need of a Maya exporter. The funny thing is that most people have this idea that creating a Maya exporter is harder then creating a Max exporter. I am guessing that is because they have never created either. Anyhow I fully intend to create a quick
Maya->Torque exporter first so all of these people have something and then I will work on the more complex exporter.
[RANT]The more that I read these forums I am thinking that most people on here are in High School or have no idea what they are doing. That is cool with me, but I wish they would stop adding there two cents if they don't have a clue.[/RANT]
#7
03/02/2002 (10:59 pm)
#8
Maya Builder
03/03/2002 (4:45 am)
Jay: from http://www.graphdom.co.uk/Prices.htm authorised UK reseller.Maya Builder
#10
We did a survey and the average age of a GG community member is 25.8 years.
I applaud your project idea. If GG can help, let me know.
Jeff Tunnell GG
03/03/2002 (5:30 pm)
Ernest,We did a survey and the average age of a GG community member is 25.8 years.
I applaud your project idea. If GG can help, let me know.
Jeff Tunnell GG
#11
05/19/2002 (6:15 pm)
I started my own thread begging for this unbeknownst of this one. I am just bumping it to see what the status of this exporter is. Is it still in development? I prefer maya over max and I dont have the brainpower to write much of anything.
#12
Myself and a few others have actually started on [early] development of some modeling tools etc. for Torque (also usable by most any other engine).
Things have slowed considerably since two of the people who were in the group decided to drop out (it's hard to keep people motivated).
I'm still at it, but it's going slow...
I can give you more info if you are interested.
David
05/20/2002 (3:21 am)
Hi Ernest,Myself and a few others have actually started on [early] development of some modeling tools etc. for Torque (also usable by most any other engine).
Things have slowed considerably since two of the people who were in the group decided to drop out (it's hard to keep people motivated).
I'm still at it, but it's going slow...
I can give you more info if you are interested.
David
#13
@Badguy - Maya is the better tool - for me even (and I own it) - so you are wrong again :)
I would love to see an exporter for Maya
go ahead :))
Freddy
05/31/2002 (4:25 pm)
Hello out there @Badguy - Maya is the better tool - for me even (and I own it) - so you are wrong again :)
I would love to see an exporter for Maya
go ahead :))
Freddy
#14
Owen
06/01/2002 (9:24 am)
Very interesting, I am a big fan of Maya the office has a copy and I enjoy playing with it, so the ability to export from that to Torque would be ideal.Owen
#15
I wonder if Ernest has finished this or not.
its been quite a while now.
06/20/2002 (11:03 am)
Good stuff freddy :)I wonder if Ernest has finished this or not.
its been quite a while now.
#16
TrueSpace absolutely does NOT have the functionality of MAX. BUT, TrueSpace is a decent modeler, and it would be nice to see an exporter for it.
06/23/2002 (11:22 pm)
"TrueSpace is a great tool too. For about $500.00 you get the functionality of Max."TrueSpace absolutely does NOT have the functionality of MAX. BUT, TrueSpace is a decent modeler, and it would be nice to see an exporter for it.
#17
06/23/2002 (11:34 pm)
My vote is on an improved Milkshape3D exporter. Everyone can afford $20. ;) 
#18
and as for you guys that think that Maya is so much more expoensive I would like to let you know that you dont have to settle of Maya Builder. You can get Maya 4 Complete for $1900 USD wich is $1500 less that. wich translates in to over $2000 in saving when you factor in the cost of character studio!
And beside since most of you aren't doing commercial products anyway just get The free version of maya! since youare not rendering stuff the watermark should not bother you.
09/24/2002 (1:23 pm)
Final someone that has seen the light MAYA is THE choice!!!and as for you guys that think that Maya is so much more expoensive I would like to let you know that you dont have to settle of Maya Builder. You can get Maya 4 Complete for $1900 USD wich is $1500 less that. wich translates in to over $2000 in saving when you factor in the cost of character studio!
And beside since most of you aren't doing commercial products anyway just get The free version of maya! since youare not rendering stuff the watermark should not bother you.
#19
http://www.oroboro.com/rafael/maya.html
it is a quick run thru with code on how to get the relavent data out of Maya corse getting it to DTS is another issue altogether but I found it an interesting read.
09/24/2002 (6:25 pm)
something that I found in another thread though I realize that it's not getting the data out of maya's format that is the trouble but getting it into the DTS format. None the less this may help some of you.http://www.oroboro.com/rafael/maya.html
it is a quick run thru with code on how to get the relavent data out of Maya corse getting it to DTS is another issue altogether but I found it an interesting read.
#20
In terms of high end solutions I've got Maya PLE but don't like Maya anywhere near enough to justify the $2000 price tag. My favorite of the high end 3d apps is the never mentioned Electric Image.
09/25/2002 (2:53 pm)
The problem with Milkshape is that it is Windows only. I have two Macs and two Linux boxes, but only one Windows machine, that has a broken fan and is pretty slow. I don't do any development from Windows so having a Mac or Linux solution would be nice. In terms of high end solutions I've got Maya PLE but don't like Maya anywhere near enough to justify the $2000 price tag. My favorite of the high end 3d apps is the never mentioned Electric Image.
Torque Owner Josh Albrecht