Feeling despaired - please comment

#1 Did you offer cash? People are busy nowdays and you can't just expect some advanced programmer to say "oh yea i'll drop everything and help you make a game"... that does not happen often and if it does it's for a reason like an experianced shop or the like.

"What is the best way to approach programmers"..

Answer: A big stack of cash....

Also if you put a lower case "i" a programmer is not going to work with you? Well at least I would not that pisses me off people can't type 3rd grade grammar and ask like. (not you dude just saying others)

"hello i am looking for a good programmer to make my game thx out i thx you laterz"..

That is not how you talk to educated professionals....

You went to school use it.

#2 Some more explanation

#3 Well sorry it was somewhat harsh lol.. But I think it may help you.

Keep trying don't give up.

As far as trash talking my website. I don't pimp it out or have never made a post or a plan saying "look at my website". I just use it to store files right now.

Actually I get good feedback on my game company name. People think it's funny. But if you want to compare websites or projects..

I don't think you want to compare resume's with me either dude. You'll get embarassed.

BTW have you tried the help wanted forums? Also several other web portals for game developers.

Best of luck on your current and future projects.

Edit: Here if you want a website that represents my professional work this is more like it
www.uscourts.gov/

#4 The best way to approach a programmer is:

a) give him/her a good design document, or well structured ideas and work out the design document

b) LISTEN to them! If you know they are skilled and they tell you that this feature is hard to implement even if it sounds very simple, but dont try to come up with a new one alone, try to ask them what is the best compromise.

c) do not think that writing code is a simple task

d) remember the rule 80-20 (20% of features take 80% of time to implement)

Nice art!
Good luck ;)

#5 "Keep trying don't give up. "

Thanks

#6 "do not think that writing code is a simple task"

i know i tried hehe setting up the work enviroment alone took me 3 dayz , printing hello world took another 3 dayz... after that i was screwed.

"Nice art!"

Thanks for the support , much appreciated. Those backgrounds are fully animated using hardware acceleration. They are quite cool and unique. I only released the 4 least interesting ones in the beta but they got a good response anyway. I was really happy with how the project was going until recently. This could have been great.

#7 Steve:

What would it take for YOU to drop what you are doing and work on someone else's project? If there were 20 programmers out there working on games that need graphics, how would they get YOUR attention and interest?

Answer that question, and then you may have an answer to your own question.

As far as percentages, most games make somewhere between diddley and squat. So offering 50% of nothing is... lemme see... 0 into 0, carry the 0, that'd be... oh, yeah, nothing. (Great line from the TV show "Firefly"). So that's not a great draw.

And don't disregard what Randy and Alexander had to say.

#8 @Steve

Good luck finding a programmer for your game. I know how you feel.

I started making a game last April and I was on a fast roll with the art portion only to find out that the game engine wouldn't work for my game without rewriting the collision code. I searched for months to find someone interested in helping me and I even offered $1,500.00 for someone to help me write a custom collision solution. NO one was interested or at least no one was seriously interested. Finally, I gave up the search when I found out that the TSE was going to be the solution that I needed, but, the TSE is still very very far away from completion.

So, I just had to put my game on a shelf and listen to everyone call me a quiter. The general opinion around here was that I had failed at making my game when I put it aside to make a stupid puzzle game instead. That opinion went to the top of the community too. Which felt pretty bad to find out about. The truth was... I just couldn't find anyone to do the programming for the game and I wouldn't make the game half ass. The puzzle game sucked... but at least I finished it with the exception of music. Still... I get shit when I try to ask for help on the forums or in irc. I even started to just make a joke of it in the weekly plan highlights that I write it has been so embaressing. Funny thing was... I have such kick ass models for the game. I even have financing for getting the game to the XBox 360, which is 10s of thousands of dollars, if the game is good enough when finished and Microsoft is interested. Still I couldn't find anyone interested.

Finally I decided to learn to do it myself and as busy as I am it is not easy to go back and learn physics and math. I did it though. It has taken a long time. I was looking at some free physics engines to integrate with torque when I FINALLY stumbled onto someone who is going to do the work for me. Now... my game is finally back to being developed and I am very excited. I was willing to do it myself... no matter how long it took... but BOY am I glad to find someone who really knows what they are doing.

So, that's my sad then happy story for you. So you know that when I say 'good luck'... I mean it. Good luck. Don't give up. Try 6... wait... 9 months waiting for a solution for your game. Try that kind of patience. WHILE being called a quiter and a failure by your fellow community members. But that is what being an indie is all about isn't it. Looking in the face of those who don't believe in you and saying 'be patient, you'll see, success doesn't happen overnight'.

#9 It's all about presentation. In my life experiance I find that programmers tend to be "unique" people. If you want a programmer to back you up you have to treat them good. Trust me the REALLY good ones know they are good and will make you pay. If they don't they suck.

I know these laws.. I have been around a LOT of programming shops in my day though mostly military software.

Your best programmers are degreed and have loads of experiance. And are not just going to answer a poorly written ad. When they have been disciplined in school for a certain looking presentation.

The "throw money" out was more of a funny thing.. (because it's so true).

There might be a LOT of out of work Oracle DBA's cause of India but for now, game programmers that are really good (can finish projects with little to no supervision) are hard to come by and can demand a premium.

I have been asking for a bounty type system while developers like us can bid on components. Maybe this would help people have a better presentation??

#10 Sorting out the issue

#11 I apologize for being a BEEP sorry.

Have you checked out www.gamedev.net?

#12 Well, if you want a programmer to help you, and you can make good art... Why not offer an exchange of services? You can make art for whatever game the programmer is working on, and the programmer can help you finish coding the game you're working on. It's a good idea because you will get the opportunity to see two completed products instead of just one.

Just build a little electronic portfolio and start shopping aroung the GG irc channel and the boards here. You'll find someone I bet!

#13 Steve,
Have you looked into converting your game to a game engine like Torque2D? I don't think that most programmers want to take over developing someone else's C++ engine, but they may be more willing to work with Torque2D instead.

#14 Too lazy to edit properly

#15 Lumixed is a Beta?... 8-o


I played it the other day after following a link on your thread about Electronic music and Textures. I certainly didn't think it was a Beta.

I don't normally go for 2D tile games, but it looked really cool and was pretty addictive. I certainly didn't spot any Undocumented Features while I was playing it.

Just how far away from completion are you? Not far from the looks of things.

My Advice.. Go to your developer, grab him by the scruff of the neck and tell him to fix those final niggly bugs that stop the game from moving from a Good product to a Great one.

You've got the support, you have the attention of the media and it's all going to slip away because of your coder.. That's not fair. Your coder needs to wake up and fulfil their obligations.

It's not over until the fat lady sings...


..unless you're in a fat lady singing competition.

#16 " I certainly didn't think it was a Beta. "
yes it is , only 1 /4 of the content is in. I choosed the worst levels for the beta so the commercial release would have good reasons to buy it. There is some minor bugs left too. There is a lot of features missing. We had plans for a 2 player mode. The gameplay was supposed changed too . This version was made for a game compos. Heres what the judge add to say

""I've spent more time playing this game than any other contest entry now I must have racked up at least ten hours. I don't know how much of this is the basic Lumines game design, and how much is specific to the Lumixed team's implementation of it, but together they've caused me more time crises than Zirconia 2, something of which they should be extremely proud (Zirconia 2 play time at last check: 6 hours). ""

The challenge mode doest have any level progression. You were supposed to go trough different skins ( 15 of them ) you are supposed to unlock levels by beating them. The internet radio thing is implemented but it was supposed to be way more sophisticated.

#17 Hmm... A Tech Demo is all well and good, but it's not the best way to demonstrate an engine. It takes a game to do that. A Finished game. If all Garage Games had to offer were Tech Demo's I'd start to ask some serious questions about the quality and usability of the enigine and scripting language. Some people argue that Doom3 was nothing more than a Tech Demo, but it was also a fully fledged game in its own right..

Porting your game to T2D might seem like a daunting prospect, especially after you've spent so much time already on your game. You'll have to learn a completely new architecture and programming language.

But, I've seen real games made with T2D so I know it's possible to get some really slick results.


If it was me.. I'd make a list of all of the features you absolutely need in your game, followed by the things you'd like and the things that would be nice and stick to the list. You've already got the game mechanics working so you know what you want at the end of the day.

Then I would download a bunch of the T2D games and see what other people are getting out of the engine. See if it can do the things you want. (I was really impressed with the moving 3D backgrounds BTW.. with the music, it reminded me of Rez.) If that's going to be your only problem, you're laughing... and there are plenty of people here who can help you with that.

Then after Christmas, I'd see what the developer wanted to do. If he's not interested, I'd cut all ties and start again, removing all rights to use my artwork from the tech demo. If he wants to go it alone, let him. But without my art... No Art, No tech demo. Maybe it'll change his mind. Maybe not.. who knows.

If you think he has no respect, then he's not really a team player. Teams have to work together or they fail.


I don't know how long you've been visiting this site, but the community here is great, really friendly and will help you out as much as they can. I've not used T2D but I know TGE is a very capible engine and is only limited by my inability to keep my imagination under control and finish something.


You have my sympathies. Sounds like no matter what you do, you've got a lot of work ahead. But it won't take as long to get where you are now with this other enigine. You already have the concept and the art resources so you can concentrate on getting the game written, or finding someone on here who can help you.

Best of luck to you.

#18 Lol Steve you know how to cut into someone deep. Remind me to never get on your bad side. That was a good laugh though. I wish I could help you with your game but I'd probably have worse luck than you finding a coder. Sorry for this worthless post. Good luck man.
-Ajari-

#19 @Anton Bursch: I hear ya' :)

Here's my little story (very short version): I saw a great art for a nice game idea, I applied as a coder, but there wasn't a DETAILED design document, so later, some features were non-playable or would take a lot of time to implement for my busy life. Finally, me and the artist lost the interest in it, and the project died at the alpha stage... :( And one of the reasons for that was: the gameplay was difficult to master, I could see it already at the alpha, but the other team member was so excited about HIS game, he couldn't see it, though art was really great.

Here is the lesson: you have to be a BAD parent to your project, and have guts to kick it, smash it, cut it, to make it playable, not just pretty. ;) And... design, design, design, prototype, prototype, code, code, code, code... ;P

@Steve Bisson
Well... I've tried the demo, nice game, which will be a pity if it will die...
Here is the deal.
I'll give you a hand on T2D for this game. I don't have a lot of time, I work full-time in a software house, so I can dedicate about 5-7 hour a week. You gotta have a lil' patience for that ;) And I also can help you with marketing.

There are some conditions ;) :
+) "The ultimate goal is market the game and try to make a few bucks". You may re-think it as "The ultimate goal is to COMPLETE the game and if it'll make a few bucks that will be awesome" ;) It doesn't mean it shouldn't make some money, but the idea should be shifted, no need to be "greedy"

+) Good DETAILED design document from you, technical document from me

+) Let's make this project open to public, create a project page on GG and publish game's design and technical documents. I will publish my coding progress, so we will be "obliged" to finish this game in the public eye. ;) And that will be a good lesson for others.

+) Simple gameplay, minimum features for the first version; if the gameplay will prove itself, there is always a room for a sequel with more features

Let me know if you are ready to give it a try ;)

#20 Thanks again.