Several major bugs
by Pavel Tovarys · in Torque Game Builder · 12/02/2005 (4:40 pm) · 12 replies
Hi, I finished a game, I sent it to about 20 betatesters and:
- 30% betatesters don't run the game, T2D didn't find any video driver (some of betatesters
tested T2D demos and they have the same problem)
- 20% betatesters have problem with physics, the metods setImpulseForce and setLinearVelocity work different on more computers (f.e. on 2 very similar computers the same function shot object 20x slower)
- 80% betatesters have problem with DirectX mode (it is slow, or there is a problem with graphic - maybe with doublebuffer?)
Here is the demo: http://www.gameofyear.com/download/TrickBallSetup.exe
This is my first game in T2D, so I think the physics could be my problem. The other problems were on official demos too. If any "guru" want to test the sources, I would be very glad ;)
If anybody could help me with the first problem (detecting drivers), please contact me.
(and sorry for my poor english)
- 30% betatesters don't run the game, T2D didn't find any video driver (some of betatesters
tested T2D demos and they have the same problem)
- 20% betatesters have problem with physics, the metods setImpulseForce and setLinearVelocity work different on more computers (f.e. on 2 very similar computers the same function shot object 20x slower)
- 80% betatesters have problem with DirectX mode (it is slow, or there is a problem with graphic - maybe with doublebuffer?)
Here is the demo: http://www.gameofyear.com/download/TrickBallSetup.exe
This is my first game in T2D, so I think the physics could be my problem. The other problems were on official demos too. If any "guru" want to test the sources, I would be very glad ;)
If anybody could help me with the first problem (detecting drivers), please contact me.
(and sorry for my poor english)
#2
I would imagine that maybe 30% of beta testers will have problems running ANY game, because people do not have any kind of graphic hrdware installed. The only fix there is a software engine, unless they simply arent running any drivers for thier graphics cards (more likely)
12/03/2005 (2:12 am)
Pavel: make sure they have opengl installed. Get them to send you the console.log file when they run the game and see if its really not seeing any video card at all?I would imagine that maybe 30% of beta testers will have problems running ANY game, because people do not have any kind of graphic hrdware installed. The only fix there is a software engine, unless they simply arent running any drivers for thier graphics cards (more likely)
#3
@Pavel:
1) The drivers problem exists at the TGE level of things. My discussion with the GG folks indicates that a majority experiencing this problem runs on either an intel-graphics or an ATI one. GG have much more experience with this issue and I'll have to defer it to them. I am not sure if the merge with TGE v1.4 will solve any of these issues.
2) The integration of forces was frame-rate dependant in v1.0.2 due to an unfortunate bug in the code. This problem has now been resolved in the alpha#1 build. There are a few reported issues in the physics but these are not related to this problem.
3) The DirectX emulation isn't the best graphics-layer in the world and we have plans to change this. A preference should always be for OpenGL as there is good support for this on most chipsets nowdays. Again, this isn't directly a T2D thing, it's a fundamental of the engine. This is something I'll have to defer to GG. I am not sure if the merge with TGE v1.4 will solve any of these issues.
I'll download your game and have a play with it!
- Melv.
12/03/2005 (6:50 am)
@Adam: Could I ask that you please be careful what you post on things being broken, especially with the alpha. The reason I ask this is because the problems that Pavel is referring to in the physics (with forces being applied differently on different computers) was a known bug that has been resolved in the alpha. Any existing problems (that have been reported) are of a different nature. Objects being stuck in a level for instance, isn't a force/time related issue, it's a problem with the clamp-solution. I'm trying to keep control of factual information, that's all; Pavel might take it that this problem still exists. Thanks! :)@Pavel:
1) The drivers problem exists at the TGE level of things. My discussion with the GG folks indicates that a majority experiencing this problem runs on either an intel-graphics or an ATI one. GG have much more experience with this issue and I'll have to defer it to them. I am not sure if the merge with TGE v1.4 will solve any of these issues.
2) The integration of forces was frame-rate dependant in v1.0.2 due to an unfortunate bug in the code. This problem has now been resolved in the alpha#1 build. There are a few reported issues in the physics but these are not related to this problem.
3) The DirectX emulation isn't the best graphics-layer in the world and we have plans to change this. A preference should always be for OpenGL as there is good support for this on most chipsets nowdays. Again, this isn't directly a T2D thing, it's a fundamental of the engine. This is something I'll have to defer to GG. I am not sure if the merge with TGE v1.4 will solve any of these issues.
I'll download your game and have a play with it!
- Melv.
#4
It would be good to get hold of the "console.log" files as Phil suggests from your testers. That way, we'll know what the video-chipsets are. With regards to the physics; this is something that was very well known on the forums and changing your game to work on the alpha isn't probably something you want to do at this stage so I'm not sure what to suggest. You could potentially make the necessary adjustments needed to fix the impulse side of the physics, it's not that difficult to do as the code change is minimal. I'll try to dig-out the thread.
- Melv.
12/03/2005 (7:07 am)
I just realised that I tried this a while ago; cool game. :)It would be good to get hold of the "console.log" files as Phil suggests from your testers. That way, we'll know what the video-chipsets are. With regards to the physics; this is something that was very well known on the forums and changing your game to work on the alpha isn't probably something you want to do at this stage so I'm not sure what to suggest. You could potentially make the necessary adjustments needed to fix the impulse side of the physics, it's not that difficult to do as the code change is minimal. I'll try to dig-out the thread.
- Melv.
#5
In the alpha, a huge array of physics improvements happened so you've got a choice, make some quick/dirty changes to fix it up or move to the alpha.
I cannot guarantee the following changes will fix all your problems but as far as I can remember from the v1.0.2 release, they may resolve your issue:
In "fxSceneGraph2D.cc" (line 2566), change the line...
In "fxSceneObject2D.cc" (line 1602), change the line...
It's Saturday and I'm supposed to be taking a break from this stuff (if my wife catches me I'm toast) so I may have missed something but this kind of fix is essential for a released product that depends on the physics as yours does.
- Melv.
12/03/2005 (7:27 am)
This was the report of the problem but it'd been solved by then.In the alpha, a huge array of physics improvements happened so you've got a choice, make some quick/dirty changes to fix it up or move to the alpha.
I cannot guarantee the following changes will fix all your problems but as far as I can remember from the v1.0.2 release, they may resolve your issue:
In "fxSceneGraph2D.cc" (line 2566), change the line...
objPhysics.AddLinearForce( (sceneConstantForce+objectConstantForce) * elapsedTime );... to ...
objPhysics.AddLinearForce( (sceneConstantForce+objectConstantForce) );
In "fxSceneObject2D.cc" (line 1602), change the line...
// Add Linear Force. getParentPhysicsModel().AddLinearForce( gravitic?impulseForce*getParentPhysicsModel().getMass():impulseForce );... to ...
getParentPhysicsModel().setLinearVelocity( gravitic?impulseForce*getParentPhysicsModel().getMass():impulseForce );
It's Saturday and I'm supposed to be taking a break from this stuff (if my wife catches me I'm toast) so I may have missed something but this kind of fix is essential for a released product that depends on the physics as yours does.
- Melv.
#6
And I'm waiting for the new version, programming in T2D is really fast (I finished the Trick Ball in only several weeks as my the first project, so with learning everything ;)
Thanks again.
12/03/2005 (4:02 pm)
Melv thank you for the help! I'm going to fix the code.And I'm waiting for the new version, programming in T2D is really fast (I finished the Trick Ball in only several weeks as my the first project, so with learning everything ;)
Thanks again.
#7
Did you see that you can download the alpha#1 release? Go to your product downloads page to get it. :)
It's nice to see people putting out games in such a short period of time. Your game has lots of potential on-top of what you've already done which is what I find so exciting about it. Simple concept, huge potential. :)
- Melv.
12/04/2005 (3:59 am)
Quote:And I'm waiting for the new version
Did you see that you can download the alpha#1 release? Go to your product downloads page to get it. :)
It's nice to see people putting out games in such a short period of time. Your game has lots of potential on-top of what you've already done which is what I find so exciting about it. Simple concept, huge potential. :)
- Melv.
#8
Hi @Melv, I just could read your post, and I was alluding to the 1.0.2 of course. The alpha is
certainly a huge step ahead. And I'm glad that you take every issue or problem
with T2D personal. YFI I love T2D ^_^
12/04/2005 (6:24 pm)
Quote:
@Adam: Could I ask that you please be careful what you post on things being broken, especially with the alpha.
Hi @Melv, I just could read your post, and I was alluding to the 1.0.2 of course. The alpha is
certainly a huge step ahead. And I'm glad that you take every issue or problem
with T2D personal. YFI I love T2D ^_^
#9
- Melv.
12/05/2005 (1:08 am)
Hope I didn't sound like a nasty school teacher or anything! It's just that people run with comments they pick up on the forums and before you know it, all sorts of conclusions are being drawn. There's bound to be bugs and I'm not trying to hide them, just trying to provide information on what exactly is going on. Thanks for understanding. :)- Melv.
#10
12/06/2005 (10:19 am)
As for the graphics problems, do you have a list of hardware configs (really, the videocard is the most important thing to know).
#11
Everything works fine with this cards.
ATI RADEON 9200 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9550 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9600 PRO 256 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9600 XT 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9800 XT 128 MB RAM
GEFORCE MX220 32 MB
GEFORCE MX440 AGP 8x
...I have few others but I haven't time to test with all that cards yet, however I will if you want to Pavel.
I work in Computer service department so I have access on various machines/video cards.
I didn't tried with on board cards basicly becouase those cards/motherboards are not designed for playing but I will try tommorow on some intel based onboard graphic card machine.
If you need more detailed specification or console log from this machine tests I will send you.
12/06/2005 (10:30 am)
A while ago I tested this game on several video cards so maybe someone will need this info.Everything works fine with this cards.
ATI RADEON 9200 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9550 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9600 PRO 256 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9600 XT 128 MB RAM
ATI RADEON 9800 XT 128 MB RAM
GEFORCE MX220 32 MB
GEFORCE MX440 AGP 8x
...I have few others but I haven't time to test with all that cards yet, however I will if you want to Pavel.
I work in Computer service department so I have access on various machines/video cards.
I didn't tried with on board cards basicly becouase those cards/motherboards are not designed for playing but I will try tommorow on some intel based onboard graphic card machine.
If you need more detailed specification or console log from this machine tests I will send you.
#12
Denis: I found problem with two computers with win XP and GeForce 5700LE (and several others, I will try to contact betatestest to know the configurations). The both have the nevest drivers, but tomorrow we reinstall one computer and it works now.
I think it is ok if the game will not work on several computers. I will try to collect the configurations for the future. Thanks!
12/06/2005 (3:14 pm)
Hello, thanks for your help!Denis: I found problem with two computers with win XP and GeForce 5700LE (and several others, I will try to contact betatestest to know the configurations). The both have the nevest drivers, but tomorrow we reinstall one computer and it works now.
I think it is ok if the game will not work on several computers. I will try to collect the configurations for the future. Thanks!
Torque Owner Adam Johnston
that older graphic cards don't do T2D.
2) upgrade to 1.1a1, even so there are still problems in the 1.1a1 physics. In the 1.0.2 the physics
are broken.
3) same as 1)