TorqueTools coding (new product)
by Berserk · in Torque Game Engine · 10/22/2005 (6:21 pm) · 24 replies
Hi everyone.
I'm planning (and actually structuring) a huge project for Torquers.
It's called TorqueTools, and aims to be a RAD for script development.
Programmers would have RADish interface for quickly build from the ground up complete games with Torque
with a point and click fashion.
What I have in my mind is (in example)
- write your datablock adjusting parameters and members choosing values from sliders, listboxes and editing editboxes
- write your actual asset choosing datablock from a listbox (aka combobox) and adjusting values and data members
- then, repeat all this over and over to quickly have your game ready.
But it doesn't stop here, I'm planning about terrain editors for both TGE and TSE, DTS editors (just add collision meshes, bones, nodes etc, don't actually edit 3d models), DSQ animator (create skeleton animations and export them to dsq for use with DTSs), texture manager (view textures in a ACD-See like fashion), shader manager (same as above, but for shaders, applyed to spheres), a script editor with fake-intellisense (for writing batches of code in a VisualBasic-like fashion), dif editor (similar to cartography shop) and waterblock behaviour editor for TSE.
Maybe a GUI editor with facilityes for GUI skinning and a mission editor.
Many of you are surely thinking "best wishes about that ... " but I believe this is necessary for various reasons, for example:
- Many newcomers wonders about how to create a torque app starting from scratch and feel bad with Torque in the beginning.
- Unit scale is ambiguous and subject to variations for app to app, this can result in a meter in (eg) gamespace that is actually 10 centimeters in (eg) cartography shop. Using a single unit scale greatly helps mantaining proportions.
- Too much tools to get for writing a game, and most of them are expensive or eiter rarely used but necessary. While TorqueTools aims to be commercial, it aims to provide a complete framework to work with in order to create a Torque application.
As I sayd earlier, TorqueTools will be commercial, so if somebody wants to help (and gain some bucks when it gets finished) help is welcome.
I have to decide if develop it with RealBasic or directly with Torque, because while Torque already supports all my target features, I'll have to write C++ code (wich I hate) to create terrain exporters, dif and DSQ/DTS editors, RealBasic can do them all as well but I'll have to read C++ code in order to match the filetype structure of some filetypes (.ter, .dts, .dsq) but if I develop with RealBasic I can code a shader editor as well (if I find enough documentation about shaders) wich is very generic and supports just syntax highliting and fake-realtime shader preview.
Please, feel free to share your thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
Bye, Berserk.
.
I'm planning (and actually structuring) a huge project for Torquers.
It's called TorqueTools, and aims to be a RAD for script development.
Programmers would have RADish interface for quickly build from the ground up complete games with Torque
with a point and click fashion.
What I have in my mind is (in example)
- write your datablock adjusting parameters and members choosing values from sliders, listboxes and editing editboxes
- write your actual asset choosing datablock from a listbox (aka combobox) and adjusting values and data members
- then, repeat all this over and over to quickly have your game ready.
But it doesn't stop here, I'm planning about terrain editors for both TGE and TSE, DTS editors (just add collision meshes, bones, nodes etc, don't actually edit 3d models), DSQ animator (create skeleton animations and export them to dsq for use with DTSs), texture manager (view textures in a ACD-See like fashion), shader manager (same as above, but for shaders, applyed to spheres), a script editor with fake-intellisense (for writing batches of code in a VisualBasic-like fashion), dif editor (similar to cartography shop) and waterblock behaviour editor for TSE.
Maybe a GUI editor with facilityes for GUI skinning and a mission editor.
Many of you are surely thinking "best wishes about that ... " but I believe this is necessary for various reasons, for example:
- Many newcomers wonders about how to create a torque app starting from scratch and feel bad with Torque in the beginning.
- Unit scale is ambiguous and subject to variations for app to app, this can result in a meter in (eg) gamespace that is actually 10 centimeters in (eg) cartography shop. Using a single unit scale greatly helps mantaining proportions.
- Too much tools to get for writing a game, and most of them are expensive or eiter rarely used but necessary. While TorqueTools aims to be commercial, it aims to provide a complete framework to work with in order to create a Torque application.
As I sayd earlier, TorqueTools will be commercial, so if somebody wants to help (and gain some bucks when it gets finished) help is welcome.
I have to decide if develop it with RealBasic or directly with Torque, because while Torque already supports all my target features, I'll have to write C++ code (wich I hate) to create terrain exporters, dif and DSQ/DTS editors, RealBasic can do them all as well but I'll have to read C++ code in order to match the filetype structure of some filetypes (.ter, .dts, .dsq) but if I develop with RealBasic I can code a shader editor as well (if I find enough documentation about shaders) wich is very generic and supports just syntax highliting and fake-realtime shader preview.
Please, feel free to share your thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
Bye, Berserk.
.
About the author
#3
There are also two excellent script editors with Intellisense: TorqueDev and Torsion.
Throw in Blender (free modeller), Gimp (free image editor), and RenderMonkey (free shader editor with realtime preview) and you have all of the tools you need to develop a game for free.
Btw, you forgot that you need to make a C++ IDE and compiler ;)
10/22/2005 (9:03 pm)
You do know that TGE has a built-in Terrain and Gui editor, right? And that we are working on a DIF editor...There are also two excellent script editors with Intellisense: TorqueDev and Torsion.
Throw in Blender (free modeller), Gimp (free image editor), and RenderMonkey (free shader editor with realtime preview) and you have all of the tools you need to develop a game for free.
Btw, you forgot that you need to make a C++ IDE and compiler ;)
#4
I'll keep you posted step by step.
@ Matt: Yes, I know. But I like integrated environments and so I'm going to write it. I could write it in TSE, but it has 2 problems:
1) Shaders would be required to be .hlsl or asm (afaik) or them wont show.
2) TSE Terrain isn't editable (is it at least deformable?)
In the end you seem to have ignored the "reasons" section. Ever got problems with unit scale?
Ever got tired by newbs (as me in the beginning) asking how to start from scratch (as I asked)?
Let's make some math:
ShowTool + GameSpace + LevelExporter (one of the available) + Torque =
$ 50 + $ 300 + $ 20 (about) + $ 100 = $ 470
$ 470 that an individual spend to have decent dts ad dif exporting (afaik, blender DTSs are a pain), while GIMP is quite good (in fact is not in list). RenderMonkey is unknown to me but I heard about people getting crazy simply trying to apply a rendermonkey shader to a TSE model/scene.
By the way, as I sayd, I'm not going to use assembler to write this. I'm going to use TGE directly or RealBasic.
Ever seen RealBasic? It's quite similar to Visual Basic, except is much simpler than it. RealBasic users wrote very nice apps in few time and some of them are commercial like. There are also graphic editors very near to the GIMP featurewise.
In example, have a look at this: www.oriens-solution.com/rahmanimager/rahmanimagerpro.htm
By the way is not the only good app written in RealBasic, have a look at www.realbasic.com in the showcase section.
If you want to joke me anymore, I prefer emails because here I'm going to discuss serious things.
Again, if somebody is willing to help, welcome.
Bye, Berserk.
.
10/23/2005 (3:45 am)
@ Anthony && SockPuppet: Thanks.I'll keep you posted step by step.
@ Matt: Yes, I know. But I like integrated environments and so I'm going to write it. I could write it in TSE, but it has 2 problems:
1) Shaders would be required to be .hlsl or asm (afaik) or them wont show.
2) TSE Terrain isn't editable (is it at least deformable?)
In the end you seem to have ignored the "reasons" section. Ever got problems with unit scale?
Ever got tired by newbs (as me in the beginning) asking how to start from scratch (as I asked)?
Let's make some math:
ShowTool + GameSpace + LevelExporter (one of the available) + Torque =
$ 50 + $ 300 + $ 20 (about) + $ 100 = $ 470
$ 470 that an individual spend to have decent dts ad dif exporting (afaik, blender DTSs are a pain), while GIMP is quite good (in fact is not in list). RenderMonkey is unknown to me but I heard about people getting crazy simply trying to apply a rendermonkey shader to a TSE model/scene.
By the way, as I sayd, I'm not going to use assembler to write this. I'm going to use TGE directly or RealBasic.
Ever seen RealBasic? It's quite similar to Visual Basic, except is much simpler than it. RealBasic users wrote very nice apps in few time and some of them are commercial like. There are also graphic editors very near to the GIMP featurewise.
In example, have a look at this: www.oriens-solution.com/rahmanimager/rahmanimagerpro.htm
By the way is not the only good app written in RealBasic, have a look at www.realbasic.com in the showcase section.
If you want to joke me anymore, I prefer emails because here I'm going to discuss serious things.
Again, if somebody is willing to help, welcome.
Bye, Berserk.
.
#5
BTW I dont think that Matt was joking, he simply mention that all those tools are allready available just as separata parts. And they are all free.
10/23/2005 (4:21 am)
Good luck with your project. By all means keep us updated.BTW I dont think that Matt was joking, he simply mention that all those tools are allready available just as separata parts. And they are all free.
#6
As I said, you're right. But too much a mess to keep everything well organized.
By the way, some of the tools mentioned by Matt has problems with Torque, while others are expensive and overall they lack in precision.
The unit scale problem in my strongest focus spot, because not all graphic packages use the same unit scale (afaik a meter in 3dstudio max is different than a meter in [eg] gamespace) and so, using quark for dif building and a 3D modeler for the rest may require manual pre-calculations to keep proportions or object scaling once in the mission editor. This is not the best thing ever...
Better if we can use a package where 1 is 1, either for dif, terrains or dts.
How many people ran in problems exporting articulated models from modelers? Collision meshes, bones, particle emitters, ifl animations, wheels, helics, bounding boxes, and so on are well suported by various exporters but badly documented.
I still can't find a doc describing the right hierarchy to use to support them all.
Isn't it better if the user could buy/model a 3d model in whatever modeler, export it in a standard format (like 3ds or something similar) and then add bones, collision meshes and whatever?
About DSQ, it may be superfluous (many modelers can do skeletal animations and DSQ doesn't have any problems) but as I said, I like complete solutions and well integrated resources. I don't like to have too much tools to install.
Last, but not least, RealBasic can build output to Linux and Macintosh as well as Windows, and the final system could be ported to other engines if the Torque related data handling routines are kept in external libraryes while general things are hard-coded in app.
There's something every 3D engine use: Models, Terrains, Textures, Shaders and interiors.
Editors are always useful, so this could even be a good start to get in touch with various modes of seeing game development.
Let's hope, I'm still looking for help and willing to change language environment if needed.
However, I'll keep you posted.
Thanks for opinions. Go on.
Bye, Berserk.
10/23/2005 (11:46 am)
I thought so, maybe I misinterpreted his post.As I said, you're right. But too much a mess to keep everything well organized.
By the way, some of the tools mentioned by Matt has problems with Torque, while others are expensive and overall they lack in precision.
The unit scale problem in my strongest focus spot, because not all graphic packages use the same unit scale (afaik a meter in 3dstudio max is different than a meter in [eg] gamespace) and so, using quark for dif building and a 3D modeler for the rest may require manual pre-calculations to keep proportions or object scaling once in the mission editor. This is not the best thing ever...
Better if we can use a package where 1 is 1, either for dif, terrains or dts.
How many people ran in problems exporting articulated models from modelers? Collision meshes, bones, particle emitters, ifl animations, wheels, helics, bounding boxes, and so on are well suported by various exporters but badly documented.
I still can't find a doc describing the right hierarchy to use to support them all.
Isn't it better if the user could buy/model a 3d model in whatever modeler, export it in a standard format (like 3ds or something similar) and then add bones, collision meshes and whatever?
About DSQ, it may be superfluous (many modelers can do skeletal animations and DSQ doesn't have any problems) but as I said, I like complete solutions and well integrated resources. I don't like to have too much tools to install.
Last, but not least, RealBasic can build output to Linux and Macintosh as well as Windows, and the final system could be ported to other engines if the Torque related data handling routines are kept in external libraryes while general things are hard-coded in app.
There's something every 3D engine use: Models, Terrains, Textures, Shaders and interiors.
Editors are always useful, so this could even be a good start to get in touch with various modes of seeing game development.
Let's hope, I'm still looking for help and willing to change language environment if needed.
However, I'll keep you posted.
Thanks for opinions. Go on.
Bye, Berserk.
#9
There is a free version of show tool built right into the engine. Granted it isn't nearly as nice as Dave's ShowTool Pro (which btw is $35 not $50) but it is the one that was used for *years*. Blender isn't as nice as GameSpace but Milkshape isn't too far behind and is only $25 (with the free Milkshape Exporter Plus it supports more features that GameSpace). Milkshape also has a free built-in "LevelExporter" (I assume you are referring to a .map exporter of which I thought there was a free one for GameSpace).
Keeping in mind that you don't need to purchase Torque if you are an artist then my costs for a "decent" dts and dif pipeline is $25 not $470. Sure, there are plenty of more expensive routes to go and some of them do offer nicer pipelines but you seemed to be overly concerned about the cost so I just wanted you to be aware that there are cheap and free ways to go (which quite a few people have managed to make successful).
My other concern is that you are balking at a $370 pricetag for art tools but I have a hard time seeing you sell your tool for anything less than that if you are going to be working on it for the next 3-4 years. I have been working fulltime on Constructor for 8 months with the help of two other extremely knowledgable programmers (also fulltime) and it is only one piece of the complete art pipeline rewrite you are describing so I *know* the scope/scale of what you are attempting to do.
I did read your "reasons" and I pointed out that there is some great progress in making things easier for newcomers (Torsion, TorqueDev, and Constructor - I didn't mention the very newcomer friendly Pro exporters that were announced at IGC since I figured you had done your research into competing products). I also addressed your concern about the costs of the art pipeline. I did not talk about your issues with scale because I found you sadly misinformed on the subject: in all of our exporters 1 unit in the modelling tool equals 1 unit in Torque with the exception of the .map processing. However, all you have to do is edit the geometry_scale property in the worldspawn entity (refer to the manual for how you do this in your particular brush editor or edit it directly in the .map) from 32 to 1 and suddenly your .map units will be 1 unit = 1 unit/meter in Torque. If you have your units set to meters in 3dsmax then it will match GameSpace meters exactly (it is always 1 unit = 1 unit but by default 3dsmax units aren't set to meters).
I was in fact joking about the C++ IDE and compiler but what I was attempting to get across (gently) was the sentiment that you might be biting off more than you can chew. I don't know anymore about you than what your profile and forum posts reveal so I can't totally guess at your skill set but what they appear to be is simply not enough to take on this absolutely massive project. I have seen other highly skilled people fail at similar endeavors, I know what efforts/time GG has had to spend on similar things, and I have been personally involved in making a Torque tool for much of the last year. Your goals are certainly admirable but the scope is *huge* especially for a one man project. On one hand I have seen people accomplish amazing things but on the other I want to give you fair warning of what exactly you are getting yourself into.
10/23/2005 (7:12 pm)
None of the tools I mentioned were "expensive".Quote:
ShowTool + GameSpace + LevelExporter (one of the available) + Torque =
$ 50 + $ 300 + $ 20 (about) + $ 100 = $ 470
There is a free version of show tool built right into the engine. Granted it isn't nearly as nice as Dave's ShowTool Pro (which btw is $35 not $50) but it is the one that was used for *years*. Blender isn't as nice as GameSpace but Milkshape isn't too far behind and is only $25 (with the free Milkshape Exporter Plus it supports more features that GameSpace). Milkshape also has a free built-in "LevelExporter" (I assume you are referring to a .map exporter of which I thought there was a free one for GameSpace).
Keeping in mind that you don't need to purchase Torque if you are an artist then my costs for a "decent" dts and dif pipeline is $25 not $470. Sure, there are plenty of more expensive routes to go and some of them do offer nicer pipelines but you seemed to be overly concerned about the cost so I just wanted you to be aware that there are cheap and free ways to go (which quite a few people have managed to make successful).
My other concern is that you are balking at a $370 pricetag for art tools but I have a hard time seeing you sell your tool for anything less than that if you are going to be working on it for the next 3-4 years. I have been working fulltime on Constructor for 8 months with the help of two other extremely knowledgable programmers (also fulltime) and it is only one piece of the complete art pipeline rewrite you are describing so I *know* the scope/scale of what you are attempting to do.
I did read your "reasons" and I pointed out that there is some great progress in making things easier for newcomers (Torsion, TorqueDev, and Constructor - I didn't mention the very newcomer friendly Pro exporters that were announced at IGC since I figured you had done your research into competing products). I also addressed your concern about the costs of the art pipeline. I did not talk about your issues with scale because I found you sadly misinformed on the subject: in all of our exporters 1 unit in the modelling tool equals 1 unit in Torque with the exception of the .map processing. However, all you have to do is edit the geometry_scale property in the worldspawn entity (refer to the manual for how you do this in your particular brush editor or edit it directly in the .map) from 32 to 1 and suddenly your .map units will be 1 unit = 1 unit/meter in Torque. If you have your units set to meters in 3dsmax then it will match GameSpace meters exactly (it is always 1 unit = 1 unit but by default 3dsmax units aren't set to meters).
I was in fact joking about the C++ IDE and compiler but what I was attempting to get across (gently) was the sentiment that you might be biting off more than you can chew. I don't know anymore about you than what your profile and forum posts reveal so I can't totally guess at your skill set but what they appear to be is simply not enough to take on this absolutely massive project. I have seen other highly skilled people fail at similar endeavors, I know what efforts/time GG has had to spend on similar things, and I have been personally involved in making a Torque tool for much of the last year. Your goals are certainly admirable but the scope is *huge* especially for a one man project. On one hand I have seen people accomplish amazing things but on the other I want to give you fair warning of what exactly you are getting yourself into.
#10
If you are interested, prototype something and get in contact with Josh Williams (joshw@garagegames.com). If not, I wish you well and I hope you do manage to prove me wrong =)
10/23/2005 (7:12 pm)
My recommendation is that instead of striking out on your own pursuing a grandiose vision that seems doomed to failure (from the vantage of experience) you should instead work with the community and GarageGames to improve the art pipeline. We have plans for doing everything you've mentioned here and if you are serious about helping we could work you into those plans. The datablock editor you described is something that Joe, Justin, and I have been talking about for a couple of years (Justin added code to 1.4RC2 that will go a long way towards helping to see it realized). It is a nicely scoped project for one man to work on and is something we don't currently have time to look at internally so is ripe for a 3rd party to come along. It would have to be done in Torque though. The shader/material editor is another thing on our radar that we will probably be looking at a 3rd party to help with and is also very nicely scoped for a one man project. Those are just two ways that you can work with us and get support and help (and money) in the process.If you are interested, prototype something and get in contact with Josh Williams (joshw@garagegames.com). If not, I wish you well and I hope you do manage to prove me wrong =)
#11
If you want to do some serious modeling you need at least blender, wich lacks in exporting features.
So, that sayd, GameSpace remains the best balancement between cost and quality (for a low-budget).
In plus, unit scale of worlds/models is not standard from modeler to modeler, I seen models (from darkmatter) using less than 2 meters in 3d studio max (let's say demo) and *lots* of units in milkshape, viewing them tiny as ants in [true/game]space.
If an artist do his maps in let's say Cartography shop (wich is a good option) and his models in milkshape (eg) he should later scale the one or the other to fit proportions. So that's why I consider [True/Game]Space or 3D Studio MAX as the only relevant options. Both, in fact, have theyr .map exporting plugin. I don't know if maya and lightwave support this, but I hope so because this will turn them in an option too.
About your previsious post, effectively, the project starded as a file manipulator and nothing else. No editors neither managers for anything, but I consider them as an option.
The idea started when I bought RealBasic for "hacking" purposes, like using some sort of dll scanner to retrieve functions from commercial application's dlls and using them to code my own tools (maybe using the evaluation version). When I saw realbasic capable of this and more, I realized that torquescript structure is so messy that it needs a better organization, so I opened up the help and collected infos about datablocks and class members/data fields in order to find the needed code in a point and click fashion and to compile complete datablocks, putting in the user the ability to use 100% Torque's potential.
The project is not begin yet, because I was looking for help (and because I was in country with my granma last week).
If you@garagegames are still interested in a collaboration I can, as you sayd, prototype the datablock creator, release for mac and win (I can send the exes to somewhere) and then arrange something with you.
Are you still interested?
If so, please use my tiscali email address: igpgames AT tiscali DOT it.
Thanks everyone else for the interest in my project (still looking for help).
Bye, Berserk.
.
11/13/2005 (2:35 am)
Matt, I tryed doing some modeling with milkshape but it isn't really a good tool. It should be ok for doing quick jobs, or however perfectly planned models. That because Milkshape lacks in features and operations are time-expensive.If you want to do some serious modeling you need at least blender, wich lacks in exporting features.
So, that sayd, GameSpace remains the best balancement between cost and quality (for a low-budget).
In plus, unit scale of worlds/models is not standard from modeler to modeler, I seen models (from darkmatter) using less than 2 meters in 3d studio max (let's say demo) and *lots* of units in milkshape, viewing them tiny as ants in [true/game]space.
If an artist do his maps in let's say Cartography shop (wich is a good option) and his models in milkshape (eg) he should later scale the one or the other to fit proportions. So that's why I consider [True/Game]Space or 3D Studio MAX as the only relevant options. Both, in fact, have theyr .map exporting plugin. I don't know if maya and lightwave support this, but I hope so because this will turn them in an option too.
About your previsious post, effectively, the project starded as a file manipulator and nothing else. No editors neither managers for anything, but I consider them as an option.
The idea started when I bought RealBasic for "hacking" purposes, like using some sort of dll scanner to retrieve functions from commercial application's dlls and using them to code my own tools (maybe using the evaluation version). When I saw realbasic capable of this and more, I realized that torquescript structure is so messy that it needs a better organization, so I opened up the help and collected infos about datablocks and class members/data fields in order to find the needed code in a point and click fashion and to compile complete datablocks, putting in the user the ability to use 100% Torque's potential.
The project is not begin yet, because I was looking for help (and because I was in country with my granma last week).
If you@garagegames are still interested in a collaboration I can, as you sayd, prototype the datablock creator, release for mac and win (I can send the exes to somewhere) and then arrange something with you.
Are you still interested?
If so, please use my tiscali email address: igpgames AT tiscali DOT it.
Thanks everyone else for the interest in my project (still looking for help).
Bye, Berserk.
.
#12
I prepared a barebone structure using SimpleMissionDemo and stripped it, reorganized and make it work again.
The datablock organization is something I'm quite proud of:
It's organized in a way I can use it for syntax highlighting and it's also easily updatable.
Practically, I have a folder tree and various .txt filled with data members, datablocks and whatever the TorqueScript's help provide, along with parameters and so on.
Now I'm still in the planning status, so I'm organizing resources in order to have something 360
11/15/2005 (10:50 am)
Alright, just to keep someone posted, today I started with some GUI management organization and in the past week I worked on the datablocks organization.I prepared a barebone structure using SimpleMissionDemo and stripped it, reorganized and make it work again.
The datablock organization is something I'm quite proud of:
It's organized in a way I can use it for syntax highlighting and it's also easily updatable.
Practically, I have a folder tree and various .txt filled with data members, datablocks and whatever the TorqueScript's help provide, along with parameters and so on.
Now I'm still in the planning status, so I'm organizing resources in order to have something 360
#14
11/15/2005 (12:07 pm)
Hmmm... I'd love to see someone make a TGE to TSE converter.... now that would be cool ;)
#15
@ Tim:
I don't know if such a converter is in my capacity range. Be more specific, what kind of data do you want to convert?
Thanks for your appreciation.
Bye, Berserk.
.
11/15/2005 (11:22 pm)
@ Charles: RealBasic automagically generates Linux, Macintosh and Windows exe. Don't worry, I'll be there.@ Tim:
I don't know if such a converter is in my capacity range. Be more specific, what kind of data do you want to convert?
Thanks for your appreciation.
Bye, Berserk.
.
#16
Realbasic can handle the file manipulation for sure if you are solid on the dts/dsq/dif file formats. The IDE idea is quite a bit more elaborate, although TGE has a great gui system and would help significantly.
A few other opinions: Blender for some reason has a bad reputation (mostly from people with little to no experience with it)... I am much more productive in blender vs milkshape or gs by far. The current exporter will be broken on the new 2.40 release, but someone experienced enough to take on the scope of the project you outline would have no probs adjusting the python code to the new blender API and I expect it may solve the odd armature issues the current exporter at time suffers from. Also, I am not really following you on torquescript's lack of organization... seems to be a pretty solid language to me: maybe you are commenting on the starter.fps structure?
Lots of talk around about tools, hope to see some real action. Good luck!
11/16/2005 (7:07 am)
If unit scale is your biggest issue, writing a read/modify/write tool for dts, dsq and dif wouldnt be too hard at all for simply scaling vertex and brush info, any language with libs to read and write to binary streams will do. The unit scaling issue is common throughout all the 3d apps, and most apps allow you to tweak unit scale definitions in the preferences. This is something newbies should have to wrap thier brain around rather than 'hiding' it in my opinion, once a solid art asset pipeline is established for a team it shouldnt really be an issue anyways.Realbasic can handle the file manipulation for sure if you are solid on the dts/dsq/dif file formats. The IDE idea is quite a bit more elaborate, although TGE has a great gui system and would help significantly.
A few other opinions: Blender for some reason has a bad reputation (mostly from people with little to no experience with it)... I am much more productive in blender vs milkshape or gs by far. The current exporter will be broken on the new 2.40 release, but someone experienced enough to take on the scope of the project you outline would have no probs adjusting the python code to the new blender API and I expect it may solve the odd armature issues the current exporter at time suffers from. Also, I am not really following you on torquescript's lack of organization... seems to be a pretty solid language to me: maybe you are commenting on the starter.fps structure?
Lots of talk around about tools, hope to see some real action. Good luck!
#17
11/16/2005 (7:28 am)
This would be really usefull, as said above, keep us informed, maybe you could eve make a newsletter about it :P
#18
E.G.: I have my 3D Studio MAX, I set meters as unit scale, so 1 square should be 1 meter.
I export my model in .3ds and then I open it in another package (let's say Maya) but is not granted that:
- 1 square is still 1 meter
- the square size is the same for both
Because there are no standards.
About the mess, yes: I were talking about the starter.fps (and all demos that uses the same structure). As a language I found TorqueScript good too.
You gave me a very good idea about the unit scaling, instead of editing, just adjust proportions in already modeled assets.
About adjusting python exporters, I don't know at this time.
Sounds interesting but I put the datablock editor in priority by now, maybe (*maybe*) later.
Ben, a newsletter about what? The program or the progress? By the way, you were joking. Am I right?
Sorry for the answer but I've not fully understood what were you meaning.
Bye, Berserk.
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11/16/2005 (3:15 pm)
Jameson, you're right: most 3d packages let the user choose unit scale in the preferences, but the problem is the vertex management.E.G.: I have my 3D Studio MAX, I set meters as unit scale, so 1 square should be 1 meter.
I export my model in .3ds and then I open it in another package (let's say Maya) but is not granted that:
- 1 square is still 1 meter
- the square size is the same for both
Because there are no standards.
About the mess, yes: I were talking about the starter.fps (and all demos that uses the same structure). As a language I found TorqueScript good too.
You gave me a very good idea about the unit scaling, instead of editing, just adjust proportions in already modeled assets.
Quote:Are you suggesting doing the editors with torque itself? I considered this option, but I'm not really sure.
The IDE idea is quite a bit more elaborate, although TGE has a great gui system and would help significantly.
About adjusting python exporters, I don't know at this time.
Sounds interesting but I put the datablock editor in priority by now, maybe (*maybe*) later.
Ben, a newsletter about what? The program or the progress? By the way, you were joking. Am I right?
Sorry for the answer but I've not fully understood what were you meaning.
Bye, Berserk.
.
#19
Did you try changing the "system units" to meters in 3DS Max? This should be done as well as changing the working units to meters. THat should do the trick.
11/20/2005 (10:50 pm)
Berserk,Did you try changing the "system units" to meters in 3DS Max? This should be done as well as changing the working units to meters. THat should do the trick.
#20
It's quite a bit of days I didn't connect to the internet.
However, my problem is not in the 3D Studio MAX measure management, but in the differences between various 3D modeling packages.
I often need to open models created with various programs and however I don't own 3D Studio MAX, I use the licence of a collegue of mine.
So, I really need something to "normalize" unit scaling between various packages, and since I choosen Torque as my favourite game engine, better if I normalize directly in Torque units.
Thanks anyway for the suggestion.
Bye, Berserk.
P.S.: Work is paused because I'm changing (upgrading) my computer. It will resume as soon as I get a full up and running PC.
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11/28/2005 (11:52 am)
Seung, first of all sorry for my latency.It's quite a bit of days I didn't connect to the internet.
However, my problem is not in the 3D Studio MAX measure management, but in the differences between various 3D modeling packages.
I often need to open models created with various programs and however I don't own 3D Studio MAX, I use the licence of a collegue of mine.
So, I really need something to "normalize" unit scaling between various packages, and since I choosen Torque as my favourite game engine, better if I normalize directly in Torque units.
Thanks anyway for the suggestion.
Bye, Berserk.
P.S.: Work is paused because I'm changing (upgrading) my computer. It will resume as soon as I get a full up and running PC.
.
Torque 3D Owner Anthony