EULA problem

#1 Can you sneak around it? Do you know anyone else who has bought the products you're interested in? Can you ask them to send you the EULA?

If they're not prepared to tell you what you're agreeing to before you sign up, then you probably want to steer clear.

#2 I found someone on these boards who mentioned they had purchased the product. Ive emailed them, asking them to send me the eula if they have it.

Thanks Philip

#3 Theres a EULA on the product page.... i.e: www.garagegames.com/pg/product/eula.php?id=69

#4 Joseph - That is not the product I was referring to.

it's not a GG product.

#5 Oh... sorry, I misunderstood.

#6 If they don't want to sell you their product then simply don't buy it. It's not worth jumping through hoops, doing all kinds of detective work and sneaking around to find what should be open to the public anyway. What ever happened to customer service.

Quote:I don't have a copy of the eula I can hand out. You get the license when you
purchase.

Isn't the eula different from the actual license? lol He act's like he only has one copy of the eula and if he emails it to you his copy will be gone. Don't even bother with it Chris. As a matter of fact, stay clear.
-Ajari-

#7 You got a copy of the Free Art Licence when you downloaded the pack.
The PACK being refered to is SHARP tree's.
And by extracting the contents of the ZIP file onto hard drive or anyother media you agreed to license.

Here it is.

Sharp_Trees.zip

Free Art license [modified] With Commercial clause  
version 1.2  Found Here: http://artlibre.org/licence.php/lalgb.html
Copyright (C) 2004, 2005 Sharp Production and Matthew Jones.
                       7947 Tower Court Road 
			Severn MD 21144
			mjones7947@comcast.net
 Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
 of the following license document, but changing it is not allowed without the express permission of the above copyright holder.

For commercial license please contact me at the above email address.
Commercial licenses will be made available upon payment  dollars per license

The following license is for non-commercial use only. Any attempts to circumvent this license will cause immediate surrender of any license as well as criminal and or civil prosecution.

--------
Definitions
Commercial clause:
Any use of the media for commercial or financial gain whether in public sales, display, or redistribution is subject to a commercial license not contained in in the collection of media or this license. Commercial licenses can be obtain from the copyright holder.

Media:
A work, which includes the models and textures, contained within this collection of files, which this license is included in. 

Nothing added or taken away from this collection contained or uncontained with in the zip file changes this license

You:
You are the licensee. 

Sharp:
Sharp Production and Matthew Jones is the above copyright holder and legal owner of this media

The collection:
All the media contained with in the zip file that this license is included in.

Copy:
Any reproduction of an original as defined by this license. A copy contains any part of the collection of media included with this license.

The author or the artist of the initial work of art:
Matthew Jones. Sharp Production


1. Aims 

The aim of this license is to define the conditions according to which you can use this work freely. Use of any media in this collection is limited to Educational, Prototype work and free visual displays. Any work in which this media is used to gain profit is subject to the commercial license clause. 
Feel free to redistribute this collection and its media as long as the collection and the license remains intact. 
The aim of this media and the license is to help independent game developers get a head start in developing lush and rich terrain scenarios.


2. Extent Of The Usage 
You may not add to or take away from this collection and/or redistribute modifications to circumvent the license. All modification and copies of the original media must contain this license intact without modification. All media whether original, or modified is subject to this license with or without this license included in the redistribution. No redistribution of the included media is allowed if it is for any financial or commercial profit. No redistribution of the included media is allowed for subscription payment purposes. 
IE you may distribute the media on a CD if the total cost of the CD equals the cost of distribution and storage media (CD) and does not include a profitable gain in the price or a membership fee to obtain the media.

#8

2.1 Freedom to Copy (or of Reproduction) 

You have the right to copy this work of art for your personal use, for your friends or for any other person, by employing whatever technique you choose unless you intend to profit from such an exchange then you are subject to the commercial clause. 


2.2 Freedom to Distribute, to Interpret (or of Representation) 

You can freely distribute the copies of these works, modified or not, whatever their medium, wherever you wish, for free, if you observe all the following conditions:
- attach this license, in its entirety, to the copies or indicate precisely where the license can be found,
- specify to the recipient the name of the author of the originals,
- Include the original collection. 
The author of the original may, if he wishes, give you the right to broadcast/distribute the original under the same conditions as the copies.
Please contact them for further details 


2.3 Freedom to Modify 

You have the right to modify the copies of the originals (original and subsequent), partially or otherwise, respecting the conditions set out in article 2.2 , in the event of distribution (or representation) of the modified copy. The author of the original may, if he wishes, give you the right to modify the original under the same conditions as the copies. 
Please contact them for further details

3. Incorporation of Artwork 

All the elements of this work of art must remain free, which is why you are not allowed to integrate the originals (originals and subsequent) into another work, which would not be subject to this license. 

5. Duration of the License 

This license takes effect as of your acceptance of its provisions. The fact of copying, distributing, or of modifying the work constitutes an implied agreement. This license will remain in force for as long as the copyright, which is attached to the work of art. If you do not respect the terms of this license, you automatically lose the rights that it confers. If the legal status to which you are subject makes it impossible for you to respect the terms of this license, you may not make use of the rights, which it confers. 


6. Various Versions of the License 

This license may undergo periodic modifications to incorporate improvements by its authors by way of new, numbered versions. 

You will have the choice of accepting the provisions contained in the version under which the copy was communicated to you, or alternatively, to use the provisions of one of the subsequent versions. 


7. Sub-licensing 

Sub-licenses are not authorized by the present license. Any person who wishes to make use of the rights that it confers will be directly bound to the author of the original work. 


8. The Law Applicable to this Contract 
The internal laws of the State of Maryland shall govern this EULA, without giving effect to principles of conflict of laws. You hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the state courts sitting in Anne Arundel County, Maryland or the federal courts in the District of Maryland to resolve any disputes arising under this EULA. In each case this EULA shall be construed and enforced without regard to the United Nations Convention on the International Sale or of Goods.
 
--------

#9 THe Commercial removes most of the restrictions for commercial sales. The one being you cannot resell anything from this pack in content pack. Its not EULA its a licence I grant you. If you receive one legally you hold the licence.
There is no hidden clauses, I do retain anyrights to your IP. The document simply says your on the list people who can use the trees in a game FOR_SALE! More of receipt than anything.
I am very sorry that I did not follow all the visible protocals invovled it software distribution. Afterall I am little new to this thing as are most. All I was trying to do was give people somthing they could use, A good product to play with and use while under development. If for some reason anybody wanted to use the models in a commercial game I thought I would give them a chance to purchase them.
The purchase was also there for people who wanted to learn.

I personally don't understand people who want to use bulk third party art. I would never do that myself.

So if your uncomfortable with anything don't use the stuff. I don't care.

But like I mentioned above and the Free Art Licence states, YOU cannot make sales of your product with my art unless you purchase a commercial version.
I went well enough outa my way to RE-INFORM you of this. To let you know that you were about to make a mistake.

I don't understand why this is an issue with you. If you took the same amount of time to make a new tree for yourself and use it and remove mine then You wouldn't have go on this quest for knowledge as why I do things the way I do.

An by the way, if you find let me know. LOL

I only informed for your benifit. I would have benifited more if you had made a couple thousand sales before I informed you of your mistake.

Matt

#10 Ajari - Ya. It's be better just to stay clear.

Now I have to recreate the 1 model I was using from his pack.

#11

Quote:
So if your uncomfortable with anything don't use the stuff. I don't care.

If you don't care, then why are you selling the pack ?

I'm not attacking you Matt. You can't hold someone to a EULA that you wont even show them.

To clarify... A eula is an end user LICENSE agreement. There is no license without a license agreement.

#12 I assume you're looking for the terms of the commercial license? If so, just tell the guy you're interested in buying a commercial license, but you can't very well pay for a license without seeing the terms first. If he's still not willing to show you the license, you're better off avoiding him.

#13 Theo - That is precisely what Matt is stating here. he wants me to buy his pack but is unwilling to show me the license agreement.

#14

Quote:If for some reason anybody wanted to use the models in a commercial game I thought I would give them a chance to purchase them. The purchase was also there for people who wanted to learn

The terms are outlined in the FREE ART LICENSE. The commercial sale gains you receipt and permission to use the models commercaily. either alterted or in a original condition. Thats it. plain and simple.
NO AGREEMENT, PURE PERMISSION.

An I apoligize again if that is outa of your capacity to understand. I apoligize if this is not to the standards you expect. It is what it IS!
And with 240+ sales I don't feel the need to change it.

Good Luck
Matt

#15 As an outside observer, this is what I get from this thread:

A) Chris wants to know the requirements and restrictions of using the pack if he were to purchase it, before he purchases it.

B) The pack distributor/owner feels that the commercial license freedoms (since he stated that it's mostly a lifting of the restrictions of the freely available "restricted license") don't need to be available to the purchaser prior to purchase.

From a business perspective, the sales/marketing end of this scenario could use some polish--to close a sale, you absolutely need the user to be comfortable with your product (and it's uses)...it honestly is the seller's responsibility to make this happen. I personally would make the commerical license available in this case, or at least fully summarize the additional freedoms that come with purchase via a web page or readme.txt in the free distribution.

#16 This is from an email from Matt:

Quote:
No agreement, Just Permision. A receipt that says you are permited to use the art commercialy.

Does that not give Matt the ability to revoke that permission at any time? Something which can't happen with a license.

EDIT: Well, it could have been 241.

#17 The free licence state to remove the restrictions of the limited licence purchase a commercial license. Its the same license, you just get added to my list of people who can distribute the models in there game for sale. The license has one clause thats states you have been added to list. LOL I don't know what else to put out.

Usage Rights. The images media and other content in this Sharp Production library are copyrighted by Sharp Production and Matthew Jones. In purchasing this library, you have purchased a license to use the images and 3d media. This license allows the registered user to use the images and 3d media in their own creations as part of a graphic piece for distribution, broadcast, 
or performance wherein the creation does not use any of the images or derivatives of the 3d media or texture media as the 
primary source of the creations value (such as a textures, 3D model, backgrounds, or other clipart or 3d media collection). The images and media or its derivatives may not be offered for hire, or 
duplicated or manipulated for resale or redistribution in the form of a collection or library, (such as a media library, reproduction art, or stock design). You must be the sole purchaser and have gone through the official purchase process, with registration, to be considered a 
registered user. Non-competitive usage of the Sharp Productions Tree Library is 
unlimited and royalty-free.

This overwrites the Commercial Clause in the free art license.

Commercial clause:Any use of the media for commercial or financial gain whether in public sales, display, or redistribution is subject to a commercial license not contained in in the collection of media or this license. Commercial licenses can be obtain from the copyright holder.

When originated this I really didn't expext anyone to use the models. I figured more they were for learning.

I am not sure as to how to make it any clearer to people.

Oh well. Like said plenty of happy customers

Matt

#18 Its actually 247.

And just to go ahead and hurt any potential sales in the future. Take it from me, MAKE YOUR OWN ART, it better reflects your talent and need for control over your creation. That would be my advice, regardless of sales or profit.

I personally would never use third party bulk public art. Just because of the pure lack imigination it represents to me. No insult intendend.

Matt

#19

Quote:MAKE YOUR OWN ART, it better reflects your talent and need for control over your creation.

I do have to agree with Matt on that. I would never use 3rd party public art either. Not even for a tree or a rock. That's just me though.
-Ajari-

#20 Just for good record keeping i would like to add:

I gave Chris a licence. The thought that anybody would suspect anything other than good intentions after I gave 120 models away for any use other than sales, sickens me.
I wouldn't give art away for the money or for the chance to screw sombody. When Chris's DevShot came up I informed him that a commercial licence was required for those models to be sold in game. For his benifit

Like the nine people before him (except he did it politly without cussing at me) he went through the proccess of trying to find a way out of paying.
First he tried to ask for a price on one tree. I only have one price.
Then he pointed out the downfalls of the models. I offered to alter them for his use.
Then he pecked me on the license. This was new step in the "Trying to get outa paying" proscess. He tought me somthing so I gave him a licence.

My advise:
If your gonna give anything away just give it 100% away. Don't try to give a helping hand or this is what your in for. A least a small percentage of the time.

Matthew Jones