Large Scale..

#1 I've been working on really really large blocks with quark.. and if you get too big, it doesn't want to export them. If the block is just under the size the light maps may still stuff, and you get player shadows bugging everywhere.... but I guess thats not really your question. :D

#2 Your outdoor terrain will repeat under TGE, no idea about TSE...

How big are you talking? Size of a small town? A city, Small country, Mars?..

You could reduce the scale of your models so that everything is much smaller than normal, it would mean scaling down a lot of values for movement and so on, there are problems I've read with scaling up the terrain, but don't quite me on this.
But even if you scale up your terrain or scale down your players, the resolution of the terrain mesh will remain the same as it's a fixed size. So you'd end up with very noticable angular hills and valleys .

Also, I believe you start running into problems with co-ordinate inaccuracy when you move too far away from the 0,0,0 on the map.. the further you get from the center, the more inaccuate the co-ordinate system becomes.

For Truly HUGE maps, you'll need to do a lot of work. perhaps knitting several terrains together each with their own origin point so the floating point inaccuracy problem doesn't rear its head too much.
There are resources which try to tackle this problem, You'll have to search for the best ones.

This is all based on my loose understanding on how the terrain engine works at the moment, please feel free to correct me.

I know that games like Dungeon Siege use a system where the map origin point is based on sectors. So the player is in a sector and his position is relative to the sector he's in. Dungoen Siege has TRULY HUGE maps.. :-)

#3 @skye: yeah i found that problem to, although with a different mapmaker ..i assume its a bit of a bsp limitation.... i am hoping open plan terrain such as torque has is different ?..

@jason: phil (airaceonline) told me that TSE repeats less.. im hoping to get away with TGE though .. do u have any idea of how far i can go without repeating in TGE? or does anybody out there have any info on the subject.. im looking to make open plan terrain with maybe a sparse dash of buildings to add detail.. i guess im looking to make something like a small city size wise.. thats all i really need (i hope) .. but having a bit of leg room wouldnt hurt..

the scaling down thing is an option.. albeit a fiddly one..

any chance o explaining knitting terrain to a layman ? ..the technique.. not the concept obviously..

dungeon siege.. sounds interesting.. any more info on how that was implemented

#4 TSE uses Atlas for terrain generation which allows for super terrains. do a search for HTC it's a terrain editor for TSE or look for Vincent Billet he developed it.

There was a project going for TGE called Terrain Manager, What Terrain manager does is allow you to stitch terrain blocks together.

However dont really know if this is still being continued or not because as Ben keep saying heh "If you really need huge terrains go TSE route its already geared up to be used like that. Do a search for Terrain Manager.

But in defense of TM if a way comes out for Terrain Manager V2.0 for TGE it will come from the community not from GG. GG big terrain solution is TSE.

Also there is a resource available called Torque Terrain generation, A procedural soloution created by a SDK owner. Like I mention do a search I would list links but iam at work so Iam typing like a mad-man. :)

But for the ultimate in seeing torque uses in a EQ zoning like method check out Minions of Mirth and download the free beta its created by Josh Ritter, using Torque, python, and various other freesource code bases.

Hope this info helps you out

JohnH

#5 @johnny hill: thanks for the info on the terrain making software... looking at the apps..found a lot o other terrain apps while looking for these..

did a bit o messing about with torque demo earlier.. seems to be ok for what i want... was looking into flight sim engines.. none where made for what i want.. they did large scale but missed out elsewhere..
i think i can make torque work for what i need...

two things though.. can the sky, or should i say clouds, be raised higher to allow a bigger visual area to be viewed from above..?

or even grow the repeat area even just a little bit..

im sorry if my questions seem silly.. but although i have worked with torque i only worked as a 3d guy .
views on wether the shader engine is worth the extra would be apprieciated to.. for larger non-repeat terrain and the like.. im not a coder by any means (yet!) ..i can get by with tge code wise but tse seems a bit more daunting...

#6 TGE cannot handel large view distances, it will crash. TSE, on the other hand, can handel view distances over 10,000 meters(not sure on any actual limit). Check out these high rez screens of a 8,000x8,000 terrain I made yesterday.

The Hidden Lake
The little back spec on the island in the lake is Mr Ork^^

Overlooking the Sea and the Lake
The Sea is about 1000 Torque units wide.

Viewing the mountains from across the Sea

#7 Stock TGE can handle a view distance up to about 3100 meters which, in my opinion, wouldn't be bad for a flight sim if you weren't necessarily going for photorealism =)

The only way to do it would be if the ground was perfectly flat, because the terrain tile is only about 1024 meters across and it repeats... and the terrain becomes a bit...well...repetitive ;)

(EDIT: as a quick exercise to see this for yourself, get into your torque project's mission editor and make a new mission with a flat terrain. From the inspector find your Sky object and change the visible distance to 3100. Get into the terrain editor and make yourself a nice little mountain in the center of your mission area. Do a relight (to regenerate the terrain shadows) and look around.)

#8 Did that test midhir.. looked fairly good... i like what i saw..
pics here for anyone interested (using TGE)

over shoulder view showing draw distance

[IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/tentrhook/lscaletge1.jpg[/IMG]

there are 2 peaks either side of the picture.. this indicates how often the terrain repeats..

[IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/tentrhook/lscaletge1.jpg[/IMG]


i was messing about and realised even though i cant repeat the terrain further i could place objects outside the main terrain square, which would break up the terrain making it look somewhat different further afield....
anybody know any better? (i.e am i wrong, will i hit the wall)

in TSE i know you can do bigger non-repeating terrain.. but can u go higher?
if i go far into the sky with the draw distance at 3100 in the tge demo the engine crashes
although that may just be my cpu (tis 'aul) ..anybody with a new(ish) got any better info..

#9 ...right i have it pretty much worked out in my head off how to set this up ..
the game will pretty much have the dynamics of a flight sim...

the view distance is grand for what i want .. but i would like to have a layer of clouds that you can fly through..

is there a way to have it so that above the clouds is one level and below is another.. ?
below the clouds would be normal torque outdoor setup
above the clouds have the fog below you and just a skybox attached to the craft....
have a "switch level" zone mid cloud... anybody see a problem with this theory..