Quake III source includes q3radiant - what are the ramifications
by Nigel Hungerford-Symes · in Artist Corner · 08/20/2005 (3:46 am) · 16 replies
I just noticed that the GPL'd Q3 source contains the source to q3radiant. I haven't been able to compile it yet so my question is..... is it the full app?
If it is the full app and presumably GPL'd, does this mean it could be tweaked to work with Torque and then as long as the maps we made using it were only based on GPL'd q3radiant code (not GTKRadiant) we wouldn't need to license it and wouldn't be breaking any EULAs using it for our own commercial projects?
If it is the full app and presumably GPL'd, does this mean it could be tweaked to work with Torque and then as long as the maps we made using it were only based on GPL'd q3radiant code (not GTKRadiant) we wouldn't need to license it and wouldn't be breaking any EULAs using it for our own commercial projects?
#2
Wine should handle basic MFC ok, right?
08/20/2005 (6:55 am)
Ah, but what if one took out the MFC and replaced it with GTK :PWine should handle basic MFC ok, right?
#3
08/20/2005 (5:56 pm)
The q3radiant source code has been GPL'ed for years now. The problem is that it does say in its license that it can only be used for non-commercial projects (otherwise you have to pay a $5000 licensing fee). The same applies the q3map.
#4
I did see a quote of Carmack saying he would like to see someone use the GPL'd Q3 source to release a bugdet title or similar (obviously including the modified Q3 source with the binaries)
In light of that comment, and the fact that upon first look at the distributed Q3 source package there is only only License Agreement for all code included (no separate license agreement for q3radiant) I think we all should look a little bit more closely at the current Q3 source release to see if the situation has changed.
Just from looking at it now, there are only two files that relate to licensing, "COPYING.txt" and "README.txt"
COPYING.txt appears to be the standard FSF GPL license and does not seem to prevent use for commercial purposes.
"README.txt" relates to items such as JPEG and ZLIB libraries with their own licenses. Nothing is mentioned that would seem to contradict the GPL listed in "COPYING.txt" in relation to q3radiant.
For all intents and purposes I can't see why one couldn't use the q3radiant inlcuded with the Q3 source to produce commercial game assets any less than using any other GPL'd software.
08/20/2005 (6:34 pm)
Interesting.I did see a quote of Carmack saying he would like to see someone use the GPL'd Q3 source to release a bugdet title or similar (obviously including the modified Q3 source with the binaries)
In light of that comment, and the fact that upon first look at the distributed Q3 source package there is only only License Agreement for all code included (no separate license agreement for q3radiant) I think we all should look a little bit more closely at the current Q3 source release to see if the situation has changed.
Just from looking at it now, there are only two files that relate to licensing, "COPYING.txt" and "README.txt"
COPYING.txt appears to be the standard FSF GPL license and does not seem to prevent use for commercial purposes.
"README.txt" relates to items such as JPEG and ZLIB libraries with their own licenses. Nothing is mentioned that would seem to contradict the GPL listed in "COPYING.txt" in relation to q3radiant.
For all intents and purposes I can't see why one couldn't use the q3radiant inlcuded with the Q3 source to produce commercial game assets any less than using any other GPL'd software.
#5
Considering the currently Q3 source code is opensourced under the standard GPL, I should think this means we can leverage it for commercial use.
08/20/2005 (6:43 pm)
Furthermore to quote fromt he Q3radiant site which speaks of the licenses of q3radiant before the Q3 source release: Quote:
# The editors are free for non commercial use
# GtkRadiant is open sourced under a proprietary License from Id software.
Considering the currently Q3 source code is opensourced under the standard GPL, I should think this means we can leverage it for commercial use.
#6
From the top of Radiant.h
Personally, I'm still looking forward to Torque Constructor (any ETA for us, Matt?) But this gives those who want a free editor something a bit more standard to work with.
08/20/2005 (7:34 pm)
Q3radiant has been released under the GPL:From the top of Radiant.h
Quote:
Copyright (C) 1999-2005 Id Software, Inc.
This file is part of Quake III Arena source code.
Quake III Arena source code is free software; you can redistribute it
and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as
published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License,
or (at your option) any later version.
Personally, I'm still looking forward to Torque Constructor (any ETA for us, Matt?) But this gives those who want a free editor something a bit more standard to work with.
#7
q3radiant and q3map have not been GPL'd for years. They were just put under the GPL license. You can freely use either with no licensing fee. GTKRadiant and q3map2 are not under the GPL.
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
08/20/2005 (8:20 pm)
Quote:The q3radiant source code has been GPL'ed for years now. The problem is that it does say in its license that it can only be used for non-commercial projects (otherwise you have to pay a $5000 licensing fee). The same applies the q3map.
q3radiant and q3map have not been GPL'd for years. They were just put under the GPL license. You can freely use either with no licensing fee. GTKRadiant and q3map2 are not under the GPL.
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
#8
08/21/2005 (4:29 am)
Sorry I mispoke. The source code for q3radiant *has* been publicly available for years with the commercial restriction. I would take a very careful look at the licensing and eula of q3radiant before using it for a commercial game to make sure there aren't any hidden "gotchas". I may attempt to contact id software directly to verify whether or not it can now be used for non-Quake commercial projects.
#9
08/21/2005 (5:08 am)
I searched all over the id site for a contact email but couldn't find anything. Is there another site to go to for this sort of info? 
#10
Wouldn't that be in violation of the GPL license? I'm pretty sure that one of the clauses of releasing anything under GPL is that you cannot place any additional clauses or restrictions on the source. You are of course free to dual license, but you cannot say "you can use this under gpl but only for non-commercial purposes".
On another note, If the map editor source is released under the GPL then there should be no problems using the maps created with it for commercial purposes since GPL does not cover the output of programs that are released under GPL. The only implication may be that if you modify the source to add a torque specific exporter, and you decide to distribute the result, you'll also need to distribute the changes you've made. But then, since most exporter code is distributed anyway, that shouldn't be a problem :)
08/21/2005 (6:22 am)
Quote:
The q3radiant source code has been GPL'ed for years now. The problem is that it does say in its license that it can only be used for non-commercial projects (otherwise you have to pay a $5000 licensing fee). The same applies the q3map.
Wouldn't that be in violation of the GPL license? I'm pretty sure that one of the clauses of releasing anything under GPL is that you cannot place any additional clauses or restrictions on the source. You are of course free to dual license, but you cannot say "you can use this under gpl but only for non-commercial purposes".
On another note, If the map editor source is released under the GPL then there should be no problems using the maps created with it for commercial purposes since GPL does not cover the output of programs that are released under GPL. The only implication may be that if you modify the source to add a torque specific exporter, and you decide to distribute the result, you'll also need to distribute the changes you've made. But then, since most exporter code is distributed anyway, that shouldn't be a problem :)
#11
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
08/21/2005 (7:16 am)
The EULA of the q3radiant 200f GPL release is the GPL. Carmack has publically stated that he hopes people create a commercial game with the Quake3 GPL release, which includes the tool chain.-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
#12
I'm still only working on non-commercial stuff though, so no worries eh?
08/22/2005 (3:12 am)
Problem though... is that the QeRadiant site says that its free for only non-commercial use and that a lisence must be aquired through ID in order to be able to use it for commercial use... So that still makes it kind of in the dark :MI'm still only working on non-commercial stuff though, so no worries eh?
#13
08/22/2005 (3:59 am)
Yeah, but the Q3radiant site hasn't hade up update on the legal page since last week when the Q3 Source was release so I think it is safe to assume it relates to q3radiant pre-GPL'd Q3 and the license agreement with the Q3 allows a "fork" in licensing so to speak. GTKRadiant for example is still restricted but anything built on the 200f q3radiant release found in the Q3 source zip should be GPL and able to be used on commercial apps as far as I can see. 
#14
08/22/2005 (11:29 am)
I don't know the answer to this, but if anyone finds out for certain, please post and/or let us know. The more tools that are available to the community, the better. 
#15
2. Compile it.
3. Use it.
Downloading the 200f internal release (2002; located on the q3radiant site) is outside the GPL and under the special source licensing. The packaged release falls with within the GPL (according to the official packaged licensing). Even though they are the "same" version numberically.
08/22/2005 (2:40 pm)
1. Download the GPL'd source with the GPL license within the source as officially packaged by id.2. Compile it.
3. Use it.
Downloading the 200f internal release (2002; located on the q3radiant site) is outside the GPL and under the special source licensing. The packaged release falls with within the GPL (according to the official packaged licensing). Even though they are the "same" version numberically.
#16
08/28/2005 (10:05 am)
Joy. I know how much we all love pointless technicalities. 
Associate James Urquhart
As long as the source says its GPL, and there are no extra licensing terms attached to it, then you should be able to map with it fine.
Unfortunately, q3radiant seems to rely of MFC - so in terms of cross-platform mapping, its a nono. But in terms of windows mapping, its one more tool you can use :)