Who Would Be Interested In A Visual Scripter For Torque
by Melli Georgiou · in Torque Game Engine · 08/02/2005 (1:57 pm) · 21 replies
Hi guys!
We at geotech systems are considering undergoing a rather ambitious project with Torque. If we can get enough people who support it, and are willing to pay around 25 pounds english sterling for this program (when it comes out of course!), we will start development of a Visual Scripting Program called TorqueScriptPro aimed for Torque beginners/Intermediate users on the PC platform (Sorry, there will not be a mac/linux version - at least not at the beginning).
The code will obviously not be as efficient as a custom coded script, but we are aiming for a minimmum of an 80% efficiency mark on the scripts performance.
The general workflow of the program will be easy to understand, where you will first define the script's name, description, etc.
The next phase of the workflow is to create objects to include in your scripts, this could be counters, text objects (strings), arrays (database), players, sounds, etc. You then define the properties of the objects in the content window, and save.
The scripting is then all visual, allowing you to have a point and click approach to scripting as apposed to having to script out everything in a generic boring text-based editor.
The first version will only include a counter, text, and array object to create simple programs to show the workflow and ease of use of the program.
The next releases will introduce character objects, sound objects, etc.
Can everyone who is interested drop an email to TorqueScriptPro@mac.com and type WE WANT TORQUESCRIPTPRO in the title, and your message/feedback/enquires in the message.
We are looking for a minimum of about 200 user's support to start development, so if you want this to happen please notify your friends, or anyone you think may be interested in this!
Thanks for reading!
Melli Georgiou
Company Director
GEOTECH (UK) LTD
We at geotech systems are considering undergoing a rather ambitious project with Torque. If we can get enough people who support it, and are willing to pay around 25 pounds english sterling for this program (when it comes out of course!), we will start development of a Visual Scripting Program called TorqueScriptPro aimed for Torque beginners/Intermediate users on the PC platform (Sorry, there will not be a mac/linux version - at least not at the beginning).
The code will obviously not be as efficient as a custom coded script, but we are aiming for a minimmum of an 80% efficiency mark on the scripts performance.
The general workflow of the program will be easy to understand, where you will first define the script's name, description, etc.
The next phase of the workflow is to create objects to include in your scripts, this could be counters, text objects (strings), arrays (database), players, sounds, etc. You then define the properties of the objects in the content window, and save.
The scripting is then all visual, allowing you to have a point and click approach to scripting as apposed to having to script out everything in a generic boring text-based editor.
The first version will only include a counter, text, and array object to create simple programs to show the workflow and ease of use of the program.
The next releases will introduce character objects, sound objects, etc.
Can everyone who is interested drop an email to TorqueScriptPro@mac.com and type WE WANT TORQUESCRIPTPRO in the title, and your message/feedback/enquires in the message.
We are looking for a minimum of about 200 user's support to start development, so if you want this to happen please notify your friends, or anyone you think may be interested in this!
Thanks for reading!
Melli Georgiou
Company Director
GEOTECH (UK) LTD
#2
The mac is a great platform, it is in fact my personal favourite, I think this is where people with both machines (such as my self) can benefit. Also, this program won't be processor intensive, and should work fine through emulation with VirtualPC. The same can be assumed with a Linux emulation program.
We will untertake tests to see how it runs through emulation also, and try and make it as compatible as possible in that respect.
But remember, the files this program will create are Torque script files, which can be used on mac, linux, or PC since these 'created' files Torque Script Pro will create will be cross platform.
08/02/2005 (4:34 pm)
Haha yeh I guess it is.. I am an active mac user my self, its just the tools and resources available to us at the moment is stopping us making this truly cross platform.The mac is a great platform, it is in fact my personal favourite, I think this is where people with both machines (such as my self) can benefit. Also, this program won't be processor intensive, and should work fine through emulation with VirtualPC. The same can be assumed with a Linux emulation program.
We will untertake tests to see how it runs through emulation also, and try and make it as compatible as possible in that respect.
But remember, the files this program will create are Torque script files, which can be used on mac, linux, or PC since these 'created' files Torque Script Pro will create will be cross platform.
#3
08/02/2005 (4:37 pm)
Why not use Torque to build the Torque Script Pro editor... 
#4
08/02/2005 (4:46 pm)
I wonder the same as Pat. My team has an editor to create rules/AI/events/missions via an ingame editor using Torque. Works great!
#5
08/02/2005 (4:47 pm)
Torque is very capable of developing any application if you put your mind to it. Torque was used to make T2D For 2D Games, Constructor for 3d map design, Torque Show Pro for helping with model imports. I mean whats next? A 3D Modeling tool using Torque? 
#6
But I like any tool that will streamline the process, and moreso, if built off the TGE platform and would strongly consider purchase with proven results.
08/02/2005 (5:27 pm)
That would be nice, nicer still a DTS animator that spit out DSQ files[with any dts file] and would 'build/compile' a finished/loaded DTS.....But I like any tool that will streamline the process, and moreso, if built off the TGE platform and would strongly consider purchase with proven results.
#7
As for not making the program in Torque itself, we as a team don't feel confident enough at using Torque to build something of this scale. This is not to say it can't be done, just that we'd rather create a program in an environment we're totally confident in so we can deliver the best results we possibly can.
Please keep emailing in, we currently only have 2 emails since last night, and this survey will only be going for a month - we need another 248 users to email in!
Thanks guys for your feedback so far!
08/03/2005 (10:01 am)
We've been looking at current projects that are already out there such as Torsian (http://www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1025), but just so you guys don't get confused, what we're trying to do is make EVERYTHING visual and leave almost no space for scripting itself. I know that sounds insanely ambitious, but we would like to introduce a system where you define your objects, visually select an event for that object and then visually select an action. The program will write the scripts, so all the user has to do is define them.As for not making the program in Torque itself, we as a team don't feel confident enough at using Torque to build something of this scale. This is not to say it can't be done, just that we'd rather create a program in an environment we're totally confident in so we can deliver the best results we possibly can.
Please keep emailing in, we currently only have 2 emails since last night, and this survey will only be going for a month - we need another 248 users to email in!
Thanks guys for your feedback so far!
#8
It seems to be geared more toward adding behaviors to objects in a level rather than general scripting which i suspect is why it will be successful in the long run. It should be much easier to visually script things like "if door opened then drop bucket" than some general programming task.
08/03/2005 (10:03 am)
@Melli - What your considering hasn't been tremendously successful in the past, but it seems like other games engines are going this way as well. The new Unreal 3 tech has UnrealKismet...
It seems to be geared more toward adding behaviors to objects in a level rather than general scripting which i suspect is why it will be successful in the long run. It should be much easier to visually script things like "if door opened then drop bucket" than some general programming task.
#9
Without giving away too much on how the program works, It fundamentally jigsaws the code together using pre-defined templates and it seems to be efficient so far. We are currently at the stage of defining and editing objects, and already we are experiencing problems, but we are very positive about making this program happen, this will be a huge project for us, so we need to know that it is worthwhile continueing it and it is something you guys would purchase.
08/03/2005 (10:20 am)
I understand where Tom is coming from, it has been tried before, and this is where scripting is heading. Regardless of previous failures, we believe we have found a good balance between what is possible, and what is functional. Fundamentally, we are a small team, 2 to be exact. But so far we have the basic principles working within our test app.Without giving away too much on how the program works, It fundamentally jigsaws the code together using pre-defined templates and it seems to be efficient so far. We are currently at the stage of defining and editing objects, and already we are experiencing problems, but we are very positive about making this program happen, this will be a huge project for us, so we need to know that it is worthwhile continueing it and it is something you guys would purchase.
#10
08/03/2005 (10:22 am)
Something like that could work quite well... have "real" scripters put together templates using Torsion, then have "visual" scripters use those templates to script the game.
#11
Lol, you raised it with 50 users when you only got 2 so far? :) Funny.
Anyway. I think a tool like this would be great, but only if:
1. It was made in Torque with scripts released.
2. It was a standalone program with source.
Why? Because most of us won't make a game with only standard TGE. We will modify it and then we need to modify the Visual Scripter too.
08/03/2005 (10:24 am)
Quote:
we need another 248 users to email in!
Lol, you raised it with 50 users when you only got 2 so far? :) Funny.
Anyway. I think a tool like this would be great, but only if:
1. It was made in Torque with scripts released.
2. It was a standalone program with source.
Why? Because most of us won't make a game with only standard TGE. We will modify it and then we need to modify the Visual Scripter too.
#12
What would be great in my opinion would be to consolidate with other 'PRO' Torque scripters for the templates, since in fairness, my general outlook with Torque is no where near as great as some of you guys, its just I understand how it works, and am a lot more skilled at scripting with my own environment (see www.immunitybroken.com for my previous side project).
What I would agree to is making the template's open source, and possibly work on third party plug in objects which you guys can make to expand the program's functionality.
But the disadvantage lies creating it in Torque itself, I'm afraid we're not experienced enough to be able to do that.
08/03/2005 (10:36 am)
Lol, it was a typo the first time round! It is standing at 250 users. ;)What would be great in my opinion would be to consolidate with other 'PRO' Torque scripters for the templates, since in fairness, my general outlook with Torque is no where near as great as some of you guys, its just I understand how it works, and am a lot more skilled at scripting with my own environment (see www.immunitybroken.com for my previous side project).
What I would agree to is making the template's open source, and possibly work on third party plug in objects which you guys can make to expand the program's functionality.
But the disadvantage lies creating it in Torque itself, I'm afraid we're not experienced enough to be able to do that.
#13
08/03/2005 (10:42 am)
Well that's the thing though. If you were unable to write the application using Torque, you most likely wouldn't know enough about scripting to create the tool...
#14
The fundamental knowledge needed in creating this program isn't the same as creating the program in Torque itself. For example, making the program structure the code in the right way, and get the correct templates, etc. is what makes the program.
We understand how to 'structure' code in Torque, but just havent had much experience in creating big programs with it by itself. Hopefully, that is where you guys come in, to help us with the templates, and third party plugins, etc.
In a way this is an open source project, since the actual Torque code being used will come from you guys to ensure it is as solid as possible. We are only acting as the glue that binds it.
08/03/2005 (10:54 am)
Fair point Ray, but we believe that is true if we were to create the project in Torque. The fundamental knowledge needed in creating this program isn't the same as creating the program in Torque itself. For example, making the program structure the code in the right way, and get the correct templates, etc. is what makes the program.
We understand how to 'structure' code in Torque, but just havent had much experience in creating big programs with it by itself. Hopefully, that is where you guys come in, to help us with the templates, and third party plugins, etc.
In a way this is an open source project, since the actual Torque code being used will come from you guys to ensure it is as solid as possible. We are only acting as the glue that binds it.
#15
08/03/2005 (11:07 am)
So its kind of like making a C++ compiler, without understanding C++?
#16
But as I say, its a project that we'll only do as long as we have support from you guys. If the general consensus is that people don't think it will work, etc. Then we will happily abandon the project and move on to several others we have lined up.
At the end of the day, the general outcome of this project depends on the community here at garage games.
08/03/2005 (11:21 am)
Well I would say its more like making a C++ compiler but only knowing C. And you guys will help us with the templates that will then make it C++. But as I say, its a project that we'll only do as long as we have support from you guys. If the general consensus is that people don't think it will work, etc. Then we will happily abandon the project and move on to several others we have lined up.
At the end of the day, the general outcome of this project depends on the community here at garage games.
#17
08/03/2005 (1:01 pm)
Another vote, just 247 to go! ;) 
#18
The problem is that, to do it in such a way that is useful, the hard part will not be the visual editor.
The hard part would be the advanced and fully debugged component system that would allow a much finer grained and more flexible and more global control over game objects and their interactions...
..in other words you first would have to change the existing C++ and script code for Torque. A lot. So much that this task would *dwarf* the time it takes to make the visual front-end to drive it.
08/03/2005 (1:52 pm)
The idea could work.The problem is that, to do it in such a way that is useful, the hard part will not be the visual editor.
The hard part would be the advanced and fully debugged component system that would allow a much finer grained and more flexible and more global control over game objects and their interactions...
..in other words you first would have to change the existing C++ and script code for Torque. A lot. So much that this task would *dwarf* the time it takes to make the visual front-end to drive it.
#19
If you guys would like to help out then we would be more than grateful for your input. Essentially, that is what we are counting on. A handful of experienced Torquers and a big enough customer base to make it worthwhile.
Building Applications and games are our strong point, its just the familiarity with Torque that is letting us down. We have the experience to make an application of this scale, we just need input from people who are experts with Torque to contribute.
We would need to send them code snippets generated by the program, and make sure that it is efficient enough to be used.
The first release of TorqueScript Pro as stated in the first post, will ONLY include a counter, string and Array object.
Basic tools to build a small program (not a game). This will allow us to test if this approach works, and how well you guys respond to it.
We are aiming for a 3-6 month project to bring out the first release (which will be freeware). This of course depends on how much support we get. (so far we have recieved 3 emails!)
08/03/2005 (2:05 pm)
Very true Paul.If you guys would like to help out then we would be more than grateful for your input. Essentially, that is what we are counting on. A handful of experienced Torquers and a big enough customer base to make it worthwhile.
Building Applications and games are our strong point, its just the familiarity with Torque that is letting us down. We have the experience to make an application of this scale, we just need input from people who are experts with Torque to contribute.
We would need to send them code snippets generated by the program, and make sure that it is efficient enough to be used.
The first release of TorqueScript Pro as stated in the first post, will ONLY include a counter, string and Array object.
Basic tools to build a small program (not a game). This will allow us to test if this approach works, and how well you guys respond to it.
We are aiming for a 3-6 month project to bring out the first release (which will be freeware). This of course depends on how much support we get. (so far we have recieved 3 emails!)
#20
Show this to GG and collaborate with them to make it using the TAP platform.
There are many licensing issues involved in the road you're thinking of taking : you can't take TGE code and put it in your own app, you cannot open source an app that uses TGE code, etc.
Plus, doing in-game(in-engine) will force you to familiarize yourself with it.
If you expect 250 people to notice your thread AND email you about supporting the project, when they might like the idea but not like certain details, I think you're seriously basing your business plan on wrong premises :)
You truly can't expect the community to support a commercial project where they'll have to give you code...
I would also listen to the community members.
Not to pick on you, but this has happened many times in the last few years : someone comes in to the GG community (yeah, I know member since 2003, but 18 posts, so ;)) with an idea for a commercial project, or overhaul of the engine, asks for community support, gets advice from experienced community members, gets pissed off, and promptly forgets about the project...
08/03/2005 (2:35 pm)
If you truly think you have what it takes to pull this off, I'd start off by doing a proof of concept as an in-game editor. Show this to GG and collaborate with them to make it using the TAP platform.
There are many licensing issues involved in the road you're thinking of taking : you can't take TGE code and put it in your own app, you cannot open source an app that uses TGE code, etc.
Plus, doing in-game(in-engine) will force you to familiarize yourself with it.
If you expect 250 people to notice your thread AND email you about supporting the project, when they might like the idea but not like certain details, I think you're seriously basing your business plan on wrong premises :)
You truly can't expect the community to support a commercial project where they'll have to give you code...
I would also listen to the community members.
Not to pick on you, but this has happened many times in the last few years : someone comes in to the GG community (yeah, I know member since 2003, but 18 posts, so ;)) with an idea for a commercial project, or overhaul of the engine, asks for community support, gets advice from experienced community members, gets pissed off, and promptly forgets about the project...
Torque 3D Owner Rubes