[long] Turn based strategy
by Daniel "Stormbringer" Churcher · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 01/27/2002 (5:24 am) · 10 replies
There seem to be many FPS and RPG ideas going around, but not enough based on this oft neglected area:
A multiplayer/email based Turn based strategy game. In Multiplayer, details are sent peer to peer immediately, but in email mode, it would be sent via an encoded attachment. Anyways, here are the details:
Setting: World War 2/World war X (Non futuristic scenario)
Scenarios: I have a ton of these, but they range from storming the beach (Think D-Day) to retrieving documents inside an enemy encampment.
Style: Turn based, many units on many units (thinking >50 and <150), each unit can be controlled as a single unit, or as a group. The troop amount varies according to scenario. Each turn is split into 10-15 seconds of action. The areas to which a unit can advance, or attack, is shown as a luminescent area in green, with shootable areas in red. When an enemy is targeted, it will tell you the hit percentage ratio. Aiming takes more time from that units ability.
Each turn can be played back in real time, to show potential moves, and circumstances, but the moves cannot be made and sent to the other person, as you could simply cancel a command if you do not like it. The computer of the enemy will determine what happens. The enemies turn time is still real time, so if units are advancing or doing covering fire, they will finish what they are doing in that 10-15 seconds of the enemies turn (Confusing, but I can't explain it very well).
Why put this onto the torque engine? The 3D aspect of the action, of course. The camera could be completely dynamic in nature, giving sweeping camera angles, dramatic slow motion kills, follow the trajectory of bullets... all in a very cinematic fashion. It would also be used for strategy purposes, to show how much cover a unit, or group of units, has.
At the end of a match, the resulting plans of action taken by both teams throughout the course of the match would be stored in a .cin file (A Cinema file for playback) that could be uploaded to the internet, and played back by other people, with all turns flowing into each other completely seamlessly, and the camera able to be controlled by the user directly (They can see what player one was doing at point x, then switch to see what player y was doing at the same time) and turned into either "Unit follow mode" or "cinematic mode" (Which gives the best detail it can of the action, to make it like a movie, it switches from one side to the other at regular intervals).
The poly count on the units would need to be low, in the 750 region with a LOD going down to about 300-400, if there are to be many on the screen at once, but that would be easy to do, considering that the HL models are in that region =)
What do you think? I'd love to try something like this, but personally, all i can do is make player and weapon models, not code or map, or I'd try it myself.
A multiplayer/email based Turn based strategy game. In Multiplayer, details are sent peer to peer immediately, but in email mode, it would be sent via an encoded attachment. Anyways, here are the details:
Setting: World War 2/World war X (Non futuristic scenario)
Scenarios: I have a ton of these, but they range from storming the beach (Think D-Day) to retrieving documents inside an enemy encampment.
Style: Turn based, many units on many units (thinking >50 and <150), each unit can be controlled as a single unit, or as a group. The troop amount varies according to scenario. Each turn is split into 10-15 seconds of action. The areas to which a unit can advance, or attack, is shown as a luminescent area in green, with shootable areas in red. When an enemy is targeted, it will tell you the hit percentage ratio. Aiming takes more time from that units ability.
Each turn can be played back in real time, to show potential moves, and circumstances, but the moves cannot be made and sent to the other person, as you could simply cancel a command if you do not like it. The computer of the enemy will determine what happens. The enemies turn time is still real time, so if units are advancing or doing covering fire, they will finish what they are doing in that 10-15 seconds of the enemies turn (Confusing, but I can't explain it very well).
Why put this onto the torque engine? The 3D aspect of the action, of course. The camera could be completely dynamic in nature, giving sweeping camera angles, dramatic slow motion kills, follow the trajectory of bullets... all in a very cinematic fashion. It would also be used for strategy purposes, to show how much cover a unit, or group of units, has.
At the end of a match, the resulting plans of action taken by both teams throughout the course of the match would be stored in a .cin file (A Cinema file for playback) that could be uploaded to the internet, and played back by other people, with all turns flowing into each other completely seamlessly, and the camera able to be controlled by the user directly (They can see what player one was doing at point x, then switch to see what player y was doing at the same time) and turned into either "Unit follow mode" or "cinematic mode" (Which gives the best detail it can of the action, to make it like a movie, it switches from one side to the other at regular intervals).
The poly count on the units would need to be low, in the 750 region with a LOD going down to about 300-400, if there are to be many on the screen at once, but that would be easy to do, considering that the HL models are in that region =)
What do you think? I'd love to try something like this, but personally, all i can do is make player and weapon models, not code or map, or I'd try it myself.
#2
>>
the camera could be completely dynamic in nature, giving sweeping camera angles, dramatic slow motion kills, follow the trajectory of bullets... all in a very cinematic fashion
>>
My first reaction to this was that it would slow down game play, but in the context of a slow paced email game, this makes senese, and would add to the experience.
>>
Each turn is split into 10-15 seconds of action.
>>
If you mean to simulate 10-15 seconds of real action, I think this might be too fine a scale for a slow paced e-mail game. The Axis and Allies games have a time scale where 1 turn = 1 year, other games are similar (diplomacy :1 turn= 1/2 year, etc.) I think that the slower pace of an email game would better suit a large scale strategic level of gameplay, rather than a fast paced tactical simulation
smaller time scale means that players will need frequent control over the actions of individual units, and I think it might be frustrating to plan 10 seconds of tatics only to wait for 3 days for your opponent to email you back.
01/29/2002 (2:04 pm)
I think it's a good idea. I'm a fan of Axis and Allies and similar boardgames. I've alwaysbeen frustrated with the poor quality of Hasbro interactivbe's CD-ROM version - and it doesn't support email games. It's also frustrating fo online games in general that all opponents must 'log on' simultaniously.>>
the camera could be completely dynamic in nature, giving sweeping camera angles, dramatic slow motion kills, follow the trajectory of bullets... all in a very cinematic fashion
>>
My first reaction to this was that it would slow down game play, but in the context of a slow paced email game, this makes senese, and would add to the experience.
>>
Each turn is split into 10-15 seconds of action.
>>
If you mean to simulate 10-15 seconds of real action, I think this might be too fine a scale for a slow paced e-mail game. The Axis and Allies games have a time scale where 1 turn = 1 year, other games are similar (diplomacy :1 turn= 1/2 year, etc.) I think that the slower pace of an email game would better suit a large scale strategic level of gameplay, rather than a fast paced tactical simulation
smaller time scale means that players will need frequent control over the actions of individual units, and I think it might be frustrating to plan 10 seconds of tatics only to wait for 3 days for your opponent to email you back.
#3
I think about 15 seconds or so would be ok for such a game, as I am not thinking of Super Large scale (As in crossing countries), but more focusing on the close-in elements of the game, such as defending a remote outpost, or crossing the city borders alive scenarios. Of course, there could be the option to turn off the cinematic camera, with the moves still being stored (Thus not breaking the pace of the game) and played back as one long cinematic later on. Of course, the potential for micromanagement on a Meyer-esque scale would be fantastic.
01/29/2002 (5:35 pm)
The fact that the new X-Com games (Genesis and Alliance) were scrapped is what made me interested in something like thuis: In an age where FPS's come out so often, it might be a nice change of pace for something of this genre.I think about 15 seconds or so would be ok for such a game, as I am not thinking of Super Large scale (As in crossing countries), but more focusing on the close-in elements of the game, such as defending a remote outpost, or crossing the city borders alive scenarios. Of course, there could be the option to turn off the cinematic camera, with the moves still being stored (Thus not breaking the pace of the game) and played back as one long cinematic later on. Of course, the potential for micromanagement on a Meyer-esque scale would be fantastic.
#4
01/29/2002 (6:23 pm)
But why would you play such a game, if you could do it in real time!? I dont see the point. It seems to me like you are just shooting yourself in the foot by making it turnbased. Just my opinion.
#5
I was playing X-Com: Terror from the Deep a few weeks back, and I had a squad of 12 guys, whom I fully equipped with weapons suited to their particular skills: A grenadier, sniper, full on assault, and a few tanks. Clearly outnumbered in this mission, I had to destroy the enemy threat in a city. All was going great, and my guys picked up a couple of strays, until we ran into the main force of the enemy. Because I hadn't worried too much about the positions of the players in relation to each other, when we were surrounded, I got whupped by my own firepower. The guys at the back got jumpy, and started firing wildly, hitting my grenadiers, who (Having a primed grenade in their hands) blew up nastily.
If I could recreate this with a nice cinematic flair in 3D, it would look very nice indeed, and that, my friend, would be the basis of the turn based strategy in 3D.
01/29/2002 (10:04 pm)
But what is the point of making yet another generic "Shoot things until you win, die and try again" type of game, when you can micromanage an entire fleet of units by yourself - from attack formations, to what they shoot at, to where they will go, and then sit back in satisfaction (Or reproach) as they carry out your orders? That is the basis of Turn based strategy, and what makes them so addictive.I was playing X-Com: Terror from the Deep a few weeks back, and I had a squad of 12 guys, whom I fully equipped with weapons suited to their particular skills: A grenadier, sniper, full on assault, and a few tanks. Clearly outnumbered in this mission, I had to destroy the enemy threat in a city. All was going great, and my guys picked up a couple of strays, until we ran into the main force of the enemy. Because I hadn't worried too much about the positions of the players in relation to each other, when we were surrounded, I got whupped by my own firepower. The guys at the back got jumpy, and started firing wildly, hitting my grenadiers, who (Having a primed grenade in their hands) blew up nastily.
If I could recreate this with a nice cinematic flair in 3D, it would look very nice indeed, and that, my friend, would be the basis of the turn based strategy in 3D.
#6
Ripped from the official readme
Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord is a tactical 3-D game of World War Two combat. It's played by giving orders to your troops each turn, and then watching them carry out your commands in simultaneous real-time action. Combat Mission is only available through Battlefront.com and will not be found in retail stores.
They have quite a bit of community support as well, mod teams doing terrain and model sets, downloadable missions and skins, you name it. It's a decent game, a definately a nice change of pace every once in a while.
01/29/2002 (11:53 pm)
Hmm, hope this doesn't trash your idea...Ripped from the official readme
Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord is a tactical 3-D game of World War Two combat. It's played by giving orders to your troops each turn, and then watching them carry out your commands in simultaneous real-time action. Combat Mission is only available through Battlefront.com and will not be found in retail stores.
They have quite a bit of community support as well, mod teams doing terrain and model sets, downloadable missions and skins, you name it. It's a decent game, a definately a nice change of pace every once in a while.
#7
When it comes to simulating larger scale conflicts, real time starts to come apart. The basic model of the game has you making snap decisions about every single situation because game AI hasn't advanced far enough to simulate a realistic chain of command. That's why turn based gaming is still popular. It gives you the chance to sit back and actually look at the situation instead of making rushed decisions.
If you look at real time strategy tactics they are usually very crude. Almost always a simple feint or a blitz style attack. Turn based games have a level of tactical subtlety that real time strategy games cannot match.
Comparing the two is like comparing a martial arts competition to a bar room brawl.
01/29/2002 (11:54 pm)
I like to play real-time and turn based strategy games. You can't really compare the two of them though. Real time only works realistically on a very small tactical scale. When it comes to simulating larger scale conflicts, real time starts to come apart. The basic model of the game has you making snap decisions about every single situation because game AI hasn't advanced far enough to simulate a realistic chain of command. That's why turn based gaming is still popular. It gives you the chance to sit back and actually look at the situation instead of making rushed decisions.
If you look at real time strategy tactics they are usually very crude. Almost always a simple feint or a blitz style attack. Turn based games have a level of tactical subtlety that real time strategy games cannot match.
Comparing the two is like comparing a martial arts competition to a bar room brawl.
#8
Again, damn.
01/30/2002 (1:27 am)
Damn. Oh well, I could always move it ahead in time to the 90's, or even neo-modern (What if World War 2 was won by Hitler?), and see how it goes. Either way, I dunno much about this game in comparison to my idea, but I still think a Turn based strategy would kick ass.Again, damn.
#9
I know there was a movie made in early 80s based on that, but I remember only seeing the first 10 minutes of it (guy jogging, sees murder)
Anyway, it'd be an interesting idea...
01/30/2002 (2:11 am)
I've always wanted to see a game set around the basis of Hitler winning WWII.I know there was a movie made in early 80s based on that, but I remember only seeing the first 10 minutes of it (guy jogging, sees murder)
Anyway, it'd be an interesting idea...
#10
01/30/2002 (3:08 am)
Well, if anyone wants to give it a try... 
Torque Owner Arch Stanton
Just did a google search, and apparently the official site is lasersquadnemisis.com, but it seems to be having trouble. Go to that search, and you'll be sure to find other sites covering it.