Should i buy?
by Anders Norén · in General Discussion · 07/26/2005 (4:00 am) · 11 replies
Hi, everyone.
I have been checking out the website as well as the demo, and some projects by other people, but i am still confused. Or maybe confused is'nt the word for it.
I am been involved in Q/QuickBasic, DarkBasic and some(Very little) C/C++ earlier. Now, i am checking for something else, something more serius.
I am been checking out the website for a couple of days, reading peoples thoughts about the engine. After a row around the place, naturally, do i have some questions now. I hope someone can answer them, so might you have a new meber of the community very soon. Anyway, here it goes...
1) On a scale from 1 to 5, how easy is Torque?
2) How expandable is it? How big/advanced projects can you do with it?
3) Are all genres doable with the engine? I have seen alot of RTA, RPG and FPS in the projects, but almost none of the arcade, sport and some other genres. I would like if someone had an example of these genres.
4) I've had experiences with ther languages earlier. Will the script be ease to recognise for me?
5) How long will it take before you will need to expand the engine by coding yourself? Have anyone here needed to do it?
I'll hope someone here can answer those questions.
Sincererly,
Anlino
I have been checking out the website as well as the demo, and some projects by other people, but i am still confused. Or maybe confused is'nt the word for it.
I am been involved in Q/QuickBasic, DarkBasic and some(Very little) C/C++ earlier. Now, i am checking for something else, something more serius.
I am been checking out the website for a couple of days, reading peoples thoughts about the engine. After a row around the place, naturally, do i have some questions now. I hope someone can answer them, so might you have a new meber of the community very soon. Anyway, here it goes...
1) On a scale from 1 to 5, how easy is Torque?
2) How expandable is it? How big/advanced projects can you do with it?
3) Are all genres doable with the engine? I have seen alot of RTA, RPG and FPS in the projects, but almost none of the arcade, sport and some other genres. I would like if someone had an example of these genres.
4) I've had experiences with ther languages earlier. Will the script be ease to recognise for me?
5) How long will it take before you will need to expand the engine by coding yourself? Have anyone here needed to do it?
I'll hope someone here can answer those questions.
Sincererly,
Anlino
#3
1) The engine is commercial grade, ie: This is not some click and run 'game creator', so it is not easy. On a good note the time you spend developing with it will develop your skills and challenge you. So an answer of (5) is a good thing!
2) Since you have the source code, and it is coded to one of the highest levels of consistency and maintainability I have ever seen in a commercial project, you will only be limited by your abilities. Torque won't slow you down; you'll have all the source code.
3) Really answered in question 2. There is not an easy one click way to make a game or change genres button here. But anything is possible with the source which is suitable for any of these types of games assuming you have the ability to code it.
4) Torque Script is easy and forgiving, c++ is, well c++.
5) Unless your creating a very basic FPS style game, you are eventually going to get into C++ coding. Again this is a good thing; your skills will develop, and you have thousands of lines of code to look at for inspiration, and a good example.
I've only had Torque since the beginning of this year. Although I did come from a programming background, the $100 price tag is too cheap in my opinion. Just to be able to see the source of a 'AAA' engine and get this type of community support along with it is well worth adding a zero to the end of the price they want for it, and even then it would be a bargain compared to similar engines out there that cost tens of thousands.
If your looking for a challenge and willing to learn about 'real' game creation you have come to the best spot. If you think creating a 'unique' game in a saturated market with two easy clicks and a content pack is the way it should be, then you are mistaken and might want to visit one of the 'one click game creator engine' sites. There are many of these to choose from, but there is only one 'Torque Engine'.
Hope this helps you out.
B--
07/26/2005 (6:25 am)
@Anders: I'm sure this has been typed at least a dozen times in these forums, but just to let you know there is an active community here that is happy to answer questions, here you go!1) The engine is commercial grade, ie: This is not some click and run 'game creator', so it is not easy. On a good note the time you spend developing with it will develop your skills and challenge you. So an answer of (5) is a good thing!
2) Since you have the source code, and it is coded to one of the highest levels of consistency and maintainability I have ever seen in a commercial project, you will only be limited by your abilities. Torque won't slow you down; you'll have all the source code.
3) Really answered in question 2. There is not an easy one click way to make a game or change genres button here. But anything is possible with the source which is suitable for any of these types of games assuming you have the ability to code it.
4) Torque Script is easy and forgiving, c++ is, well c++.
5) Unless your creating a very basic FPS style game, you are eventually going to get into C++ coding. Again this is a good thing; your skills will develop, and you have thousands of lines of code to look at for inspiration, and a good example.
I've only had Torque since the beginning of this year. Although I did come from a programming background, the $100 price tag is too cheap in my opinion. Just to be able to see the source of a 'AAA' engine and get this type of community support along with it is well worth adding a zero to the end of the price they want for it, and even then it would be a bargain compared to similar engines out there that cost tens of thousands.
If your looking for a challenge and willing to learn about 'real' game creation you have come to the best spot. If you think creating a 'unique' game in a saturated market with two easy clicks and a content pack is the way it should be, then you are mistaken and might want to visit one of the 'one click game creator engine' sites. There are many of these to choose from, but there is only one 'Torque Engine'.
Hope this helps you out.
B--
#4
Its not easy but with the guys in the forums and all threads and hints in this community i think anyone can make a game if they not are afraid to work for it.
Othervise C++ is harder then Qbasic , for the projects there is no limit , Torque Script is easy for the most of the time , but can be a pain to :) , to expand the engine really depends on the game.
07/26/2005 (6:29 am)
Ofcourse you shall buy if you want todo a game with a lovely engine.Its not easy but with the guys in the forums and all threads and hints in this community i think anyone can make a game if they not are afraid to work for it.
Othervise C++ is harder then Qbasic , for the projects there is no limit , Torque Script is easy for the most of the time , but can be a pain to :) , to expand the engine really depends on the game.
#5
I've read that i need a C++ Compiler to use the engine. I currently have Visual Studio.NET, will it do? Or do i need to buy another?
/Anlino
07/26/2005 (8:18 am)
Okay, thanks for the answers. No, i am not scared of getting my hands dirty. Limitation is the worst in most engines but of the looks at it, this does not occour in Torque. It is really unusual that the source follows, especially in a engine of this caliber.I've read that i need a C++ Compiler to use the engine. I currently have Visual Studio.NET, will it do? Or do i need to buy another?
/Anlino
#6
07/26/2005 (8:21 am)
That will do just fine Anders. If you ever need any help with the engine, let me know. Great to see another potential Torque'er in Sweden. 
#7
Depends on what you are doing with it. If you are sticking with scripting, it's about a 2 or 3. If you are diving into the depths of the engine to make custom classes, tweak shadow rendering, etc., it's a 4. It's an industrial-strength engine.
It's not EASY. It's TIME-SAVING. There's a big difference. You don't have to know everything at once as if you were making your own engine. And you have something that works remarkably well right out of the box. There is LOTS of support from the community and GG for the engine, along with expansions, content, and free resources. You can get something up-and-running REALLY fast, and you probably won't have to spend months and months customizing the engine.
But sooner or later, you will probably have to get your hands dirty mucking with the innards of the engine, and the learning curve isn't gentle. But you wouldn't find an easier time of it with any other commercial-grade engine, either.
2) How expandable is it? How big/advanced projects can you do with it?
Quite. I mean, you have the source code, so literally it's all up to you. There are definitely some things that are easier to do than others with the way the engine has been designed & optimized. But I think Minions of Mirth - even though much of the game code is Python-based rather than Torque-based - can give you an idea of the scope and scale possible with the engine.
It's industrial strength. It's been used for many major retail-games in the past, including Tribes 1 and 2. You figure it out.
3) Are all genres doable with the engine? I have seen alot of RTA, RPG and FPS in the projects, but almost none of the arcade, sport and some other genres. I would like if someone had an example of these genres.
Marble Madness is arcade style. I can't recall of Tennis Critters was Torque or not. I think sports would be pretty easy to do - it's just that indies don't have the budget to compete with the guys who hold exclusive licenses with the major leagues.
Compared to some other engines out there, which really ARE "First Person Shooter Engines", Torque is incredibly adaptable to other genres.
4) I've had experiences with ther languages earlier. Will the script be ease to recognise for me?
It's C / C++ style. Download the demo and take a look.
5) How long will it take before you will need to expand the engine by coding yourself? Have anyone here needed to do it?
I have had to do it plenty. I don't see how you could get away WITHOUT doing it at all, but I don't think most projects will need extensive rework. Most of what I've had to do has been relatively minor - adding / extending classes, adding some extra data to the Player class, merging in the Synapse Lighting Pack and RTS starter kit code, making some behavioral changes to lighting, and so forth.
The good news is that you have a HUGE, relatively robust and feature-complete engine to use as a foundation, and I haven't found a need for doing any kind of massive rewrites. It's mainly tweaking and extending. You can't be afraid of diving into some pretty advanced code (as a programmer), but you don't need to have to worry about having to know everything all at once, and you can finish several projects without even looking at 90% of the code base - just the parts you are interested in.
07/26/2005 (9:04 am)
1) On a scale from 1 to 5, how easy is Torque?Depends on what you are doing with it. If you are sticking with scripting, it's about a 2 or 3. If you are diving into the depths of the engine to make custom classes, tweak shadow rendering, etc., it's a 4. It's an industrial-strength engine.
It's not EASY. It's TIME-SAVING. There's a big difference. You don't have to know everything at once as if you were making your own engine. And you have something that works remarkably well right out of the box. There is LOTS of support from the community and GG for the engine, along with expansions, content, and free resources. You can get something up-and-running REALLY fast, and you probably won't have to spend months and months customizing the engine.
But sooner or later, you will probably have to get your hands dirty mucking with the innards of the engine, and the learning curve isn't gentle. But you wouldn't find an easier time of it with any other commercial-grade engine, either.
2) How expandable is it? How big/advanced projects can you do with it?
Quite. I mean, you have the source code, so literally it's all up to you. There are definitely some things that are easier to do than others with the way the engine has been designed & optimized. But I think Minions of Mirth - even though much of the game code is Python-based rather than Torque-based - can give you an idea of the scope and scale possible with the engine.
It's industrial strength. It's been used for many major retail-games in the past, including Tribes 1 and 2. You figure it out.
3) Are all genres doable with the engine? I have seen alot of RTA, RPG and FPS in the projects, but almost none of the arcade, sport and some other genres. I would like if someone had an example of these genres.
Marble Madness is arcade style. I can't recall of Tennis Critters was Torque or not. I think sports would be pretty easy to do - it's just that indies don't have the budget to compete with the guys who hold exclusive licenses with the major leagues.
Compared to some other engines out there, which really ARE "First Person Shooter Engines", Torque is incredibly adaptable to other genres.
4) I've had experiences with ther languages earlier. Will the script be ease to recognise for me?
It's C / C++ style. Download the demo and take a look.
5) How long will it take before you will need to expand the engine by coding yourself? Have anyone here needed to do it?
I have had to do it plenty. I don't see how you could get away WITHOUT doing it at all, but I don't think most projects will need extensive rework. Most of what I've had to do has been relatively minor - adding / extending classes, adding some extra data to the Player class, merging in the Synapse Lighting Pack and RTS starter kit code, making some behavioral changes to lighting, and so forth.
The good news is that you have a HUGE, relatively robust and feature-complete engine to use as a foundation, and I haven't found a need for doing any kind of massive rewrites. It's mainly tweaking and extending. You can't be afraid of diving into some pretty advanced code (as a programmer), but you don't need to have to worry about having to know everything all at once, and you can finish several projects without even looking at 90% of the code base - just the parts you are interested in.
#8
Nice to know that there are others swedes to discuss it with? Where i Sweden are you from?
Jay Barnson:
Thank you for taking time relying. That post helped a lot. Some time between now and christmas will be time for me to buy it. I will buy a new computer in about one or two weeks, but after that will Torque be the next investment.
I will spend some time looking into C++. I think it will help a lot that i have been involved in other languages earlier.
Thank you, everyone, for your answers. You will se me as Torque user soon.
/Anlino
07/26/2005 (12:52 pm)
Stefan LundMark:Nice to know that there are others swedes to discuss it with? Where i Sweden are you from?
Jay Barnson:
Thank you for taking time relying. That post helped a lot. Some time between now and christmas will be time for me to buy it. I will buy a new computer in about one or two weeks, but after that will Torque be the next investment.
I will spend some time looking into C++. I think it will help a lot that i have been involved in other languages earlier.
Thank you, everyone, for your answers. You will se me as Torque user soon.
/Anlino
#9
07/27/2005 (6:50 am)
DO i need to get another C++ compilator or will Visual Studio .NET work? 
#11
09/01/2005 (10:48 am)
I used Dark Basic Pro for about a year and a half but it just annoyed me it lacks the example code. With torque it comes with the example code so you can just start building off of that the scripting is not much harder than dark basic but i find, but being object orientated its alot better than Dark Basic. And you get the engine source so :p 
Torque Owner Jo