Other Engines...

#1 I would say the only engines that are usable would be Genesis3d and CrystalSpace. both of which don't have all the spiffy tools that Torque has.

#2 I meant ones that GG would acquire and host, like Torque.

btw, CS and Genesis3D don't cost $100...so that's pretty much why they're not as good...tool-wise.

#3 yeah... perhaps GG could take an existing engine and add tools then charge for it? (of course money would be shared with the original developers of the engine etc etc)

#4 Or maybe they could find other engines from other games that are just as advanced as Torque and sell them too. It would add some variety to Garage Games.

#5 Not a bad idea except for the fact that they would probably cost more for the end-user (us)... but that depends on the engine.

And not many engines that are current are going to be cheap.

#6 We have our hands full with the Torque Engine. I don't understand why you want to look at other engines. If you really want to make games, just do it. Get the TGE, form a team, and get started.

If we were to look into other engines, they would be for different purposes, i.e. a small Java engine for web games, etc. There would be no need to have another powerful multi-player, 3D engine. We think the TGE stacks up really well to any other engine on the market.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#7 I think it was more like "Well, torque is cool but I wanna know what else I can do"

Kind of covering all his bases before he sets his work in stone. Of course... there's no engine out there that isn't insanely expensive that has similar power to Torque.

So pay for Torque and use it! :p Basically the best out in retail right now... and by far the best deal.

#8 Buy Torque, rip out the terrain, download Quark, figure out doors and elevators. Remake Quake3 or UT....

$100 for cryin' out loud!

Scott

#9 Yep, our game plans on using terrain in 2 of the three modes and an all interior based mode (smaller than the other 2, but for a reason)

Just wondering... is there any option right now to disable terrain in a mission, or am I going to have to code that in? I really haven't had time to look at missions or terrain yet

Anyone know if it's possible to disable terrain (and only use interiors) without code changes? Has anyone done that successfully?

#10 Just remove the terrain block from the mission script. You can do it in the editor's hierarchy view.

#11 Jeff: I do already have a team and we have already started. That's why I've been posting .plans about Sylvantec for the past 3 months. I do like the Torque engine a lot, it just happens to be that I have almost no money and can't afford $100. Yes I am that poor. And some of the members of my team aren't willing to buy it right now. I knew that you guys were busy with Torque right now, what I didn't know is that you weren't looking for another 3D engine. My mistake. I'm not psychic, by the way; GG's descripton page doesn't say what kind of engines you're looking for, it just says "engines."

Phil Carlisle also asked why I wasn't using Torque. I responded with:

"1) It would cost $300 to license it to our programmers...we can't really afford that.

Yeah that's pretty much it. We like the tecnology but none of us has the extra money to afford it. =\ Otherwise we would be tweaking it now."

It would now cost us $600, in total. Most of the programmers don't want to spend $100. We are still considering it, we're just looking for the best fit right now. The stupidest thing you can do is jump into an engine without first exploring all your options, just because it has good graphics. We want an engine that gives a darker feel than Torque for N-BoM. Jet3D tends to be darker, so we might use that.

#12 Wow, thanks Defiant.

#13 I don't understand what you mean by Jet3D being 'darker'. You can tweak Torque to be as 'dark' as you want, without having to even script anything. It's all in the editor, and in your Worldcraft buildings.

Also, I think that even a game that is based on more traditional, 'indoorsy' gameplay will take advantage of the terrain offered by Torque, even if it's just to have nicer-looking backdrops than a simple skybox, and some moving clouds as well . . . also, a lot of people don't realize how much more fun even simple 'indoor' gameplay becomes when you take the same tight spaces and skillful maneuvering found in those CS-style games and throw some very detailed terrain into the mix. Like a small cluster of buildings in a little wooded ravine, for instance; the changes that the terrain brings to the gameplay are just beyond words.

Heck, half of the time you could play normal 'indoor' shooters with just left/right/forward keys, since everything is so flat, and generally the arenas are divided into different planes, but the gameplay is essentially 2D. When you have little ditches and hills and mounds, and when the terrain is never perfectly flat, circle-strafe l337st3rs become nearly as ineffective as they would be in real life. Outdoor areas, if kept to a proper size and mixed with buildings, can spice up 'traditional' shooters incredibly. It doesn't have to be Tribes 2 all over again by any means. Nor, as many people think, does outdoor terrain mean 'sniper wars'; it's all a matter of effective game design.

#14 What I meant by darker wasn't the light value. I meant the overall feel of the player's surroundings, and please don't make the argument that the engine has nothing to do with it. Most of it is the designer's job, but if you compare, say the Unreal Engine to something like the engine in Perfect Dark you get what I mean. Some give you a different feel because the color coordinations in particle effects and lighting values can imprint certain thoughts in your brain subconciously, based on what the image may have abstractly resembled. For example, a player might see a torch slowly flickering back and forth, subconciously thinking of someone's chest rising during sleep. That could make them feel sleepy or relaxed. There are hundreds of thousands of things many developers don't consider that make a big impact in games. Subconcious thought is probably the biggest factor in building game atmosphere, which is arguably one of the most important parts of a game, particularly first person games and RPGs.

And our game isn't indoor...it's a mix of indoor and outdoor, so we're using a modified map format that will allow the BSP renderer to behave better in outdoor environments. Most of the terrain in the Eastern World (where our game takes place) looks indoor to the BSP because forests have dense tree cover and stuff. Mountains are rough and craggy, and also act like walls. The only place where we truly have to be geniuses with mission design are open plans, so we'll have to use tall grass or rolling hills to keep gameplay smooth.

#15 I know this is a real old thread but I found it worthy of ressurection.

I found a great new engine. www.beyondvirtual.com
If you are a more lone game dev or a small team this is worthy of looking into, tmaybe as a quick game prototyping before taking your game to TSE or something.

#16 I've seen that myself as well. Looks pretty nice even if the graphical quality looks lower than Torque. Could be, as you stated, used for rapid prototyping.

#17 Yeah it is very cool. well I actually went ahead and bought it, and to tell yo the truth its graphically superior to TGE 1.4. not to mention the easiest ART pipeline i ever saw.
its still in Beta it should probly go V1.0 in April or so I would suspect.
Stuff thats still being added for V.10 includes Dynamic Shading and Lighting and for a little later HDRI rendering.
Anyway just thought I would put it out there, I know people are always looking around.

#18 It reminds me of Unity on a PC. It looks nice, seems to have a nice artpath, and has extremely sparse information on the site about the engine, its functionality, and development. Their site needs a serious redesign for content. It took entirely too many clicks on in-text links to find major point information on the engine. I can understand people seeing the demo and thinking about buying the engine, but not through looking at the site. That's purely from a presentation standpoint. Since I seem to try out every engine I can get my hands on, I'll most likely pick it up sometime to play with.

Because that's one of the strange things that I do.

#19 Hmm, the indie license costs $50 more than the TGE equivalent, is Windows only and does not include source code (for that you need a commercial license of an unspecified price).

#20 I agree with your point on the site. not very user friendly and yes documentation is VERY scarce at the moment, but hey, so was Torgue's in the earlier days.
i actually never thought of the Unity vs beyond Virtual comparison but you are quite right.

At the moment the development engine is Windows only ( MAC one in the works ). it compiles to run on MAC and Linux.
Also with the extra $50 you get to build NON game's as well. i.e simulations etc. and commercial games - no need to pay the $495 for commercial distribution. + no matter if you make more than $250 000 you still only pay $150.

Remember it is still only in Beta as well.

P.S I didnt intend this to be an engine pi$$ing contest but rather an informative post from one Indie to another. ( not that it is at the moment but we dont want to let it turn into one I'm sure. )