Game Engines

#21 Michael, you're right that's the code. But that's just the core of the algorithm, the basic functionality.
When I implemented this algorithm in TorqueScript the AI player applyed some damage to me (when
damage was enabled) but it won't play the punch and kick animations.
When I first had this problem I asked in the forums and somebody told me to check with %object.dumpmethods
if setactionthread were included in the method list. Well, it was, but the punch and kick animations didn't work.
I don't know what's wrong in my code, neither I can check because a FxxxxxG cracker erased all my data from
my hard disk while I were on vnc, along with the 0 track.
So I have to restart it from scratch, let's see what happens. As completition only, animation is not the only remaining issue.
Surely I'll have to knock my head on all the steps needed to make the magic happen.
This means (by me) Torque is strange, what do I need to make an AI bot play a "foreign" animation? Who knows the
future issues I could encounter? None of the [Engine/Wrapper/language/API/SDK/LIB/call it whatever it is] I used gave
me such issues.

David, you are probably entered this field later than me, even if I started to be "active" later than you for sure.
I'm saing this because when the first 3D Games were released, whenever somebody referred to an engine the idea was
about a set of routines used to compute 3D space and represent it in 2D, so rendering engine.
Now the global idea of engine changed to what was called "game engine", wich in some scenes (at least here in Italy)
is still threated as bad, because somebody thinks game engines are too simplifyed to use them for serious development
and getting know to some of these tools is considered as waste of time, laziness and programming incompetence.
So, at least here in italy, the idea of "engine" is what (probably) you call "rendering engine", while a "game engine"
is known as a "game making tool".
Now, Blitz and Dark Basic both has rendering structures, so here they're actually engines. As on the Blitz site: (not exact copyed, just as I remember)
"Blitz is not a game engine, while it manages all the graphic 'thing', you still need to code your game engine in order to see something on the screen."
so Blitz is actually an engine, as far as Italian "engine" idea goes.
Unfortunately, while from a side I have to agree with you when saying at present engines are "game engines" and "rendering engines" are lower step
in the videogaming ladder, reading your comment about the not engineness of the tools proposed made me think about "engine discrimination", enforced
since we are on GG forum so somebody have to proof TGE is appreciated.
TGE is indeed appreciated and although the problems I had with it and still have, it's still difficult to choose another engine for me and nothing seems to be
at Torque levels.
By the way, I really enjoyed other engines and I'll remember them forever nostalgically.

Sean, thanks for encouraging words. I tryed hard but pointers defeated me more than twice. Surely with some pratice I can master them in a few time,
but now I really can't because I have no free time.
This summer I'm studying math, calculus physics and english to recover my school grades, in the meantime I'm higly nervous because I'm following a
slim diet to burn some fat, after about 2 years of inactivity. Low food rations and high physical activity (byciclyng, fitness and running).
Last but not least, I have to go on with a prototype project with Torque in order to attract team members, over my everyday life.
Phew. Wondering I'm not already died!!!

Bye, Thc.

#22 Actually, we probably entered the visualization industry at around the same time (especially since I have fond memories about the Spectrum as well!), but that's neither here nor there. I understand where you're coming from. My point was more in a vocabulary one in defining what constitutes a game engine and what was not to understand where I was coming from. The differences between SDK's, API's, libraries, engines (conceptual or codified) have vague edges. Under the idea of having rendering structures, DirectX, Abrash's Mode X implementation, GL, Allegro, and SDL are engines that masquerade as libraries and SDK's. Which can be confusing to the uninitiated (not you, but others reading the topic). I was simply trying to define them a bit further in this context. There's a lot of gray area in the same language, so I was trying to get across the edgescapes a bit for others who would read this topic later. Thanks for explaining your perspective as well. It helps provide me with a frame of reference.

I'll try to think of a good conceptual way to explain pointers. I have a long drive tomorrow. I'll think on it.

#23 Are you really planning to explain me pointer? (well, as to everyone else)
If so, thanks in advance and very much. I really need some pratical examples, because even if I understood
what a pointer is and what it generally does, I have a sort of psycologic refuse on them.
I know pointers are like variables, but them contain only the address of a variable and they are used as
reference.
In example, let's say "whatever type of data passes here, calculate its double".
So I'll have to do:
(pointer declare) here = the_point_of_the_memory_in_wich_I_wish_to_double_everything;
myvalue = here * 2;

This way I can code algorithms using "relative" data, because I know that I will need something from "here" but I don't know where "here"
is, neither from where I'll take it.
But what should I use to get "here"? &here, *here?
And if here is a class member, should I use class.here, class->here, something else? (maybe class.*here, or class.&here)
The combinations are countless and trying to do something with SDL I needed the manual more for pointer-related syntax than for logic or procedure.

Thanks again if I understood well.

Bye, Thc.
.

#24 Hey thc, i would like to help you understand pointers. if you understand general programming, pointers shouldnt be too hard. i was going to attempt to explain it in my last post, but i didnt want to come off as being presumptuous.

however, i would recommend starting a new thread. i think this one's been mangled enough. :)

start a thread in the programming section so we discuss pointers in detail. im sure the thread would prove useful to many others as well.

#25 For sure, and by now!

Bye, Thc.

#26 Something that should be added to that list is PTK. Have been used to power a lot of games. http://www.phelios.com/ptk

#27 If you are new to the game creation field and want to start with geting to know the consept of how it all works
by starting a with a simple and not to much programming knowlage demmanding program..
i suggest the "Multimedia Fusion" or "The Game Factory" these are 2 of the relatievly easy to deal with 2d game creation engines that you can start learning this field logic with..

you can find more about those programs and other at the clickteam.com web site..

if you have basic knolage about the game creation programs logic it will give you a chance to have a nice start with 3d game programming.. and still you need to give time and aforet to learn as you will see that you can allways learn somthing new keep trying and you will gain the what you wish and dont fix your mind on one way

if you want to start working with a 3d game engines i recomend on the "3d game studio"...
it is a combined set of tools that gives you the relatievly easy and comfetrble of haveing a nice start
with 3d game creation..

i am new to the 3d game creation as well and i love to creat..

i wish you good luck..^^

#28 Torque 2D's new Level Builder is making it very very easy and intuitive :)

#29 I would actually refer to people to Game Maker rather than Multimedia Fusion or The Game Factory. Both are commercial products with limited updates. Game Maker, OTOH, is often updated and has a very active community (the MMF community is quite active as well, though TGF's has fallen dramatically over the years).

EDIT:
And Lee just reminded me that I am in full support of Torque 2D as one of the absolute best 2D engines that I have used.

#30 I agree with David, Game Maker is the seacond best choice in my oppinion, after T2D.

In addition, Game Maker has a very good level builder, but it is quite hard to create menus, UI and that type of stuff, and it's only available for windows :(

Lee-Orr

#31 Interesting thread...

#32 Hello

I am quite new to Torque but I have got the same impression as Bersek
Torque is exceptional for some kind of games, but it does not really seem to be a multipurpose engine

" cast a ray from the player going forward and check ...."

This is a definitly a good example , any multipurpose engine should provide such feature
An other example

I need to implement a "mouse driven " player

A character following the mouse pointer, I mean

I asked wether it is possible to do it in Torque
I have already done it in Blitz3d, DarkBasic and A6

I was just asking for a yes \ no answer
No reply
Honestly I am concerned
Should I continue with Torque ?

#33 Is it possible? Yes. I think there are some resources on this. Do a search before hand. "Can Torque do this?" threads are ridiculous. Most can be answered with a simple search. There's no need to resurrect a year old thread.

#34 @Alberto
It depends on what you consider a multipurpose engine and the lines where gametypes break down. There are mouse movement resources as well as an excellent camera resource. There are a lot of topics on raycasting, though the implementation of what people are using it for is often very different. Some people want to control LOD manually for areas of their levels, some want to affect triggers based on LOS and others want to work on LOS AI. Unfortunately, they usually search for their specific idea of what they need and get frustrated if others did not utilize their specific need.

But you should use the engine or language which works best for you and the game you are creating regardless. If you can't figure out the resources for TGE to implement and do not wish to sort through the code yourself (resources are much easier, even if debugging between old versions of TGE and new). Blitz and DBPro are nice windows-centric languages. A6 is a great engine as long as you do not wish to use networking. You can, but their netlib is still rather on the low end. Their physics is okay as long as you have the upper echelon version. Pairing A6 with GameSpace is a nice option for single-player games or networked titles where networked ghosting does not need to be that accurate. If you want the Mac market, Unity is a simple solution. BeyondVirtual is still quite slow in terms of a production-quality engine, but it has gotten better and better with each release. C4 is an excellent engine, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who was not a C++ programmer (much like Irrlicht or Nebula) since you use a very clean framework to program your game. The tools work nicely, though.

#35 David

I suppose that a multipurpose engine should supply a library of pre built functions , wrapping Direct x or opengl functions as well AI and phisics , without having in mind a specific kind of game
For example, I'm reading the "Game programmer's guide to torque"
The book explains that TheTorque Finite State Machine has been designed for weapons , even though it can be used for other purpose
Honestly l I am not 100 % comfortable with this kind of claims
I can not but wonder wether it is really so easy to use Torque for a non FPS game
By the way I want to design a SIM like game (no weapons, no explosions etc)

This is not of course a critic to Torque,specialization is also a strong point

Matt

Do you mean that only the questions which have never been asked before , deserve an answer ?
Come on , go through the post and see yourself how many topics are repeated and repeated several times

#36

Quote:suppose that a multipurpose engine should supply a library of pre built functions , wrapping Direct x or opengl functions as well AI and phisics , without having in mind a specific kind of game

The problem with this is the game engine will be so bloated it won't be good for any game. In a full 3D game engine, if you plan to make an efficient game, you need to be prepared to modify the engine code and tweak it. There are a -Lot- of TGE resources that add a lot of features, if not this one specifically then something that will make it a whole lot easier.

TGB is a better suited all-in-one type engine, but then again it's easier to accomplish this in 2D without having the level of bloating a 3D engine would.

#37 Alberto:

No, I've made tons of totally stupid posts on the threads and I probably should have searched before hand. All I'm saying is there's no reason to resurrect an old thread and to not complain about or critique an engine you only have the demo for. Oh yes, basic mouse movement in Torque can be found here

-Matt Vitelli

#38 I think he was talking about mouse picks and retrieving data from where he clicks a mouse pointer on the scenery or entity. The best alternative to torque if you want to have more freedom with less complexity and tricky C++ code bloat is to use a game centric language like Blitz3D for 3D games. Thats well suited for casual games but not full fledged commercial titles. I thought this topic was about 2D though?

#39 Matthew

Do you mean that some features , which are common in some kind of games,can not be achieved using the scripting language and the pre built classes and functions?
should I be prepared to edit Torque game engine , on regular basis?
I know that Torque is an advanced game engine, I am not looking for a non programming , templates based game developing tool
However I expect the engine to be self standing

The majority of game engines do not supply the source
Honestly I do not think you can claim that they are not suitable for programming efficient games
Not at least at an Indie level

#40 No, quite alot can be accomplished by scripting :) I'm just saying that everything isn't already implemented in every step for you.

"should I be prepared to edit Torque game engine , on regular basis?"

That depends on your goal... if you plan on making substantial changes to gameplay then you might, though I've acheived quite a bit in TGE without ever touching the source code, most indie games are possible with little change to the source, some with none.

"The majority of game engines do not supply the source
Honestly I do not think you can claim that they are not suitable for programming efficient games
Not at least at an Indie level"

I should rephrase that to if you plan on making the most efficient game possible. You can acheive an efficient game without touching the source, but you always will be able to modify the source and make it more efficient and tailored towards your specific goals.