Game programming class? ideas...
by Ryan Ackley · in General Discussion · 01/22/2002 (5:37 am) · 5 replies
First for a little background:
Last week i met with the chair of our CS department (Because im a web developer here, but we had many things to discuss). Somewhere along in the conversation, video games came up, and i threw into the conversation the GG idea and the idea of a class where there is one team of like 5-6 people working on a game, to complete and demo for the school (and internet community) at the end of the semester. Ive been drumming up support for this idea and already have 7-8 interested people and i imagine prolly a few dozen more i dont know who would be interested. I proposed a team of like 6 people: a few coders, a 3d artist or 2, and a mapper or 2. I even have a friend who is minoring in AI so im almost counting on his support.
Now, my question to the community is, What do you think? good idea? bad idea? i wont be running the course, we will have a weekly meeting with most of our CS dept profs (5) and showing off our weeks worth of work, and assigning new tasks for the next week. The idea is to have a "Game design and implementation" class, so everyone will have input about what they will have to create over the course of the semester. Can you think of any snags that may occurr? i chose like 6 people, because i figure trying to control more than that would be harder than i wish it to be. Also, Im working on an offical proposal for the department. Any ideas on what i should in/disclude from this? Thanks for your input and a bigger thanks to GG for allowing me to have such oppertunities!
Ryan
Last week i met with the chair of our CS department (Because im a web developer here, but we had many things to discuss). Somewhere along in the conversation, video games came up, and i threw into the conversation the GG idea and the idea of a class where there is one team of like 5-6 people working on a game, to complete and demo for the school (and internet community) at the end of the semester. Ive been drumming up support for this idea and already have 7-8 interested people and i imagine prolly a few dozen more i dont know who would be interested. I proposed a team of like 6 people: a few coders, a 3d artist or 2, and a mapper or 2. I even have a friend who is minoring in AI so im almost counting on his support.
Now, my question to the community is, What do you think? good idea? bad idea? i wont be running the course, we will have a weekly meeting with most of our CS dept profs (5) and showing off our weeks worth of work, and assigning new tasks for the next week. The idea is to have a "Game design and implementation" class, so everyone will have input about what they will have to create over the course of the semester. Can you think of any snags that may occurr? i chose like 6 people, because i figure trying to control more than that would be harder than i wish it to be. Also, Im working on an offical proposal for the department. Any ideas on what i should in/disclude from this? Thanks for your input and a bigger thanks to GG for allowing me to have such oppertunities!
Ryan
About the author
#2
01/22/2002 (7:19 am)
GarageGames has been doing a lot of work with Universities and Colleges (across the world) enabling them to be able to use the Torque as a teaching tool. Jeff has been the primary liaison -- contact him personally for more information. He is out of the office this week and I am sure will have a ton of e-mail in his box when he gets back, so be patient with a reply. Make sure your subject will catch his eye: 'University interested in teaching Torque Game Engine'. jefft@garagegames.com
#3
Without a solid understanding of programming fundamentals, not just knowing the syntax of various languages, a programmer won't be able to tackle the basics of building any type of legitimate program, yet alone a graphically interactive one.
Now classes that teach the "tricks of the trade" and teach good fundamentals of graphics programming, network programming, physics programming, et al. would, I think, be a highly valuable part of any CS department program. But only as advanced studies that start from the ground up, i.e. use simple OpenGL programs to demonstrate the various concepts, build tcp/ip or udp client/servers and build on that adding in encryption or guarenteed messaging for udp, etc. Once the basics of the core portions of game programming are completed then the use of a good-quality engine that expounds solid architecture, design and programming priniciples, such as Toruqe, etc., would only help to reinforce those basics.
01/22/2002 (7:36 am)
I've always questioned the validity of this. The problem with a lot of "independent wannabes" is that they actually know very little if anything about programming in general. You can see it here in just some of the questions that are often asked. [An aside: It only gets worse when you are just talking about "modding games". It was unbelieveable on the UnrealScript mailing list the number of people who had absolutely no knowledge of programming, yet wanted free-rides or code-handouts, etc.]Without a solid understanding of programming fundamentals, not just knowing the syntax of various languages, a programmer won't be able to tackle the basics of building any type of legitimate program, yet alone a graphically interactive one.
Now classes that teach the "tricks of the trade" and teach good fundamentals of graphics programming, network programming, physics programming, et al. would, I think, be a highly valuable part of any CS department program. But only as advanced studies that start from the ground up, i.e. use simple OpenGL programs to demonstrate the various concepts, build tcp/ip or udp client/servers and build on that adding in encryption or guarenteed messaging for udp, etc. Once the basics of the core portions of game programming are completed then the use of a good-quality engine that expounds solid architecture, design and programming priniciples, such as Toruqe, etc., would only help to reinforce those basics.
#4
Anthony
if you haven't figured I Am a Art Historian
01/22/2002 (8:42 am)
uh what school you attending I am looking for a new major. . . .actually University of Florida has just started a Digital art program for undergraduates and Masters and was thinking of doing that. It is the 1st bridge between Art and CGI that I have ever seen, I always thought the Torque engine could be used to make a new approach to traditional digital arts. That is even the most proficient teacher only puts out a single, really good photoshop piece. But what are these artist doing they are limiting themselves, Animation is the next step that the Digital artist must conquer to break into the world of Fine Arts, mix that with an interactive world and walla you got Dali!!! Anthony
if you haven't figured I Am a Art Historian
#5
Ryan Ackley
PS. Our school is St. Bonaventure University, Olean, NY.
01/22/2002 (12:16 pm)
All points well noted... We were thinking that this would be more along the lines of a portfolio and resume builder for upper level students. certain prereqs would be inplace for coders/scripters, and for the artists. While this may not be viewed as a "serious" cs class, how serious is golf, as a class in college. Id see this as more of the basket weaving of game design, that would teach a little buisness in the process, and get people hands on expirence on tools and techniques that real game developers use. plus the "hey, look what we did" factor worked well for our robotics (several grants and some recognition), why not do the same in computer games?Ryan Ackley
PS. Our school is St. Bonaventure University, Olean, NY.
Torque Owner AzraelK
why you may ask? because:
*You learn how to work with/for a community
*You can learn how to create your own developer teams
*You can learn how to work solo if needed and the advantages, disadvantages of doing so.
--Art---
*You learn the importance of good level designing, polycounting, shader tricks, etc.
*You learn that you need to be creative with little tools (this is the case in most games, since tools are usually an afterthought for a game) or even learn how to design your own.
--Coding----
*You learn the basics of scripting and why its used
in most games today.
*You learn how a REAL usable engine works. (not just opengl demos, no offense of course)
*You are able to modify the the engine itself. (that itself is a complete learning experience)
--Business 101---
*You have the chance to sell the games you make, (that means a lot), what kind of games sell? what does it take for a game to be considered proofitable?
*Do you need to invest or not? pay salaries and royalties?
*Can you use any kind of tools, what kin of tools allow to you to expend less time in development, are they worth the investment?
*A bit of marketting (although thats handled by garagegames) etc, etc.
Torque is a complete learning experience, for anyone who takes the chance to use it. =) besides I know lots of people who would apreciate tutoring on it.
I also have a similar question, for the garage games team:
there is a computer school where I reside that might be interested in teaching torque, unfortunately that school is not free, so the school would have to charge for it (they do not how much to charge neither) Is this ok with garagegames? who should they talk to? do you have a business plan for schools and tutoring?
(you may wonder why Im I asking? because Im eligible for teaching if they do ;) Im ok with any salary they offer, teaching torque would be the coolest day job I can think of!)