Sound Libraries vs. Wave Table Synths
by James Hamar · in Technical Issues · 01/21/2002 (6:04 pm) · 8 replies
I have been researching both, and i am having a hard time debating with myself about what to use. Each has their plusses and minuses, so its sort of a task to figure out how to go.
On one hand, Wave Table is free, and its able to be packed into every computer. But, the sound quality i have experienced is less than what my regular midi synth can do.
On the other hand, sound libraries cost lots of $$, but their quality is unmatched.
Is it worth to shell out the 1000$ or more for sound libraries, or would wave table synths suffice?
James Hamar
On one hand, Wave Table is free, and its able to be packed into every computer. But, the sound quality i have experienced is less than what my regular midi synth can do.
On the other hand, sound libraries cost lots of $$, but their quality is unmatched.
Is it worth to shell out the 1000$ or more for sound libraries, or would wave table synths suffice?
James Hamar
About the author
#2
http://www.soundsonline.com/
I tried doing wavesample stuff though -- i tried wingroove, and the yamaha xq wave synth. and the results were less than spectacular....... but maybe im doing something wrong.
check it out - its a cool site, with lots of demo samples.
01/22/2002 (9:39 am)
Yeah, I did a search last night - some interesting quality stuff. And some real awesome samples too -- "voices of the apocolypse" is an awesome choral pack.http://www.soundsonline.com/
I tried doing wavesample stuff though -- i tried wingroove, and the yamaha xq wave synth. and the results were less than spectacular....... but maybe im doing something wrong.
check it out - its a cool site, with lots of demo samples.
#3
www.partnersinrhyme.com/
www.audiotheater.com/resource.html#sfx2
www.sounddogs.com/
believe it or not Amazon.com also has a moderate list of sound effect CD's... check out this list link
--Rick
01/22/2002 (10:09 pm)
Here are a few Links I have found some contain good free stuff:www.partnersinrhyme.com/
www.audiotheater.com/resource.html#sfx2
www.sounddogs.com/
believe it or not Amazon.com also has a moderate list of sound effect CD's... check out this list link
--Rick
#4
If you're referring to making music, read on.
I assumed when you refer to a wavetable synth, you are talking about the sounds that come packed onto an average soundcard which are used in playing MIDI files. You'll never achieve any degree of realism in your music when relying on the end user's soundcard to provide the sounds- but that's not to say you can't write good music using general MIDI. You'll just always be at the mercy of whatever equipment the person listening to the music has in their computer. Personally, I love the music from old games- especially console RPG's, and they all rely on a very limited palette of sounds that were dictated by the hardware the game was played on.
If your goal is to make a realistic emulation of actual instruments playing, you're in for some spending. There are many high end sample libraries these days (like the Voices of the Apocalypse choir which you mentioned) which will cost an arm and a leg, but deliver professional quality sound. People that compose for games, TV, and occasionally even movies use those kinds of top end sample libraries (when they aren't using actual live musicians, anyhow).
You asked-
"Is it worth to shell out the 1000$ or more for sound libraries, or would wave table synths suffice?"
To help find that answer, let me ask you a few questions:
1)Do you want to make any money off this music or are you just doing it for fun?
2)Is realistically emulating the sound of actual instruments (like those found in an orchestra) important to you?
3)What style of music are you making?
After you answer those I can try to offer some more insight.
01/23/2002 (4:20 am)
James, I'm a bit confused as to your goal- are you looking to make sound effects or music? If you're referring to making music, read on.
I assumed when you refer to a wavetable synth, you are talking about the sounds that come packed onto an average soundcard which are used in playing MIDI files. You'll never achieve any degree of realism in your music when relying on the end user's soundcard to provide the sounds- but that's not to say you can't write good music using general MIDI. You'll just always be at the mercy of whatever equipment the person listening to the music has in their computer. Personally, I love the music from old games- especially console RPG's, and they all rely on a very limited palette of sounds that were dictated by the hardware the game was played on.
If your goal is to make a realistic emulation of actual instruments playing, you're in for some spending. There are many high end sample libraries these days (like the Voices of the Apocalypse choir which you mentioned) which will cost an arm and a leg, but deliver professional quality sound. People that compose for games, TV, and occasionally even movies use those kinds of top end sample libraries (when they aren't using actual live musicians, anyhow).
You asked-
"Is it worth to shell out the 1000$ or more for sound libraries, or would wave table synths suffice?"
To help find that answer, let me ask you a few questions:
1)Do you want to make any money off this music or are you just doing it for fun?
2)Is realistically emulating the sound of actual instruments (like those found in an orchestra) important to you?
3)What style of music are you making?
After you answer those I can try to offer some more insight.
#5
Go to images, and its on a side bar. I am doing orchestral music for a game set back in the post-roman inquisition.
02/01/2002 (5:34 pm)
Im not expecting any money and I am doing this as a fun project with a prospect of getting picked up. I also feel that realistically emulating the real thing is important, because console game midi with 3d graphics just doesnt seem right to me. And -- I have midi up on my company's web page. http://crosshate.initialized.orgGo to images, and its on a side bar. I am doing orchestral music for a game set back in the post-roman inquisition.
#6
I started out by buying the library "Peter Siedlaczek's Advanced Orchestra", which is a 5 CD set covering the whole range of orchestral instruments. At the time it was a drastic improvement over soundfonts or other low end sounds I had at my disposal. However, many of the instruments presented in the library have been covered more recently and in greater depth with newer libraries by other developers.
The advantage to AO is that its a complete set for around $1000 or less. You'll have the full range of woodwinds, brass, strings, and other odds'n'ends available to compose with. However, I find it hard to recommend if you're really serious about composing and you have ample money to spend. I only find myself using perhaps 10% of the material in the library anymore, and that number will drop once I get the money for London Orchestral Percussion and a new woodwinds library. At that point, about all I'll really want to use from AO are some nice run-up's from the string samples, and some of the effects patches for the flutes/ piccolo (maybe).
AO is pretty much the only noteworthy 'all-in-one' set you can get (at least, the only one thats not insanely expensive like Miroslav Vitous's orchestra library, which is way overpriced by current standards if you ask me), so if you elect not to get it, you'll need to buy some more specialized instrument libraries. This will cost more- but in the long run you'll be better off and the sounds you're working with will be of higher quality. You should take a listen to the demos of libraries like Garritan Orchestral Strings (www.garritan.com), Quantum Leap Brass (available at Sounds Online), London Orchestral Percussion (from Big Fish Audio), and the Dan Dean line of products (www.dandeanpro.com). You'll end up spending a pretty fair chunk of money, but the sounds are first class. You'll need Gigastudio and a sequencer too, like Cakewalk or Cubase...
I guess I can sum this all up by saying 'Quality doesn't come cheap'. I think I would recommend either going all out and spending a bundle to go top end, or just sticking with what free soundfonts and other MIDI sounds you can find on the web... and save until you can buy the good stuff. Middle of the road libraries like AO will probably just use up money that could have gone towards more worthy purchases.
Of course that's all just my opinion :) But orchestral emulation is one arena where the old adage 'you get what you pay for' holds true in most cases.
Good luck!
02/01/2002 (10:39 pm)
I guess then, in my opinion, it all comes down to what you feel you are able to spend. I'll try to give some advice based on my own experience. I started out by buying the library "Peter Siedlaczek's Advanced Orchestra", which is a 5 CD set covering the whole range of orchestral instruments. At the time it was a drastic improvement over soundfonts or other low end sounds I had at my disposal. However, many of the instruments presented in the library have been covered more recently and in greater depth with newer libraries by other developers.
The advantage to AO is that its a complete set for around $1000 or less. You'll have the full range of woodwinds, brass, strings, and other odds'n'ends available to compose with. However, I find it hard to recommend if you're really serious about composing and you have ample money to spend. I only find myself using perhaps 10% of the material in the library anymore, and that number will drop once I get the money for London Orchestral Percussion and a new woodwinds library. At that point, about all I'll really want to use from AO are some nice run-up's from the string samples, and some of the effects patches for the flutes/ piccolo (maybe).
AO is pretty much the only noteworthy 'all-in-one' set you can get (at least, the only one thats not insanely expensive like Miroslav Vitous's orchestra library, which is way overpriced by current standards if you ask me), so if you elect not to get it, you'll need to buy some more specialized instrument libraries. This will cost more- but in the long run you'll be better off and the sounds you're working with will be of higher quality. You should take a listen to the demos of libraries like Garritan Orchestral Strings (www.garritan.com), Quantum Leap Brass (available at Sounds Online), London Orchestral Percussion (from Big Fish Audio), and the Dan Dean line of products (www.dandeanpro.com). You'll end up spending a pretty fair chunk of money, but the sounds are first class. You'll need Gigastudio and a sequencer too, like Cakewalk or Cubase...
I guess I can sum this all up by saying 'Quality doesn't come cheap'. I think I would recommend either going all out and spending a bundle to go top end, or just sticking with what free soundfonts and other MIDI sounds you can find on the web... and save until you can buy the good stuff. Middle of the road libraries like AO will probably just use up money that could have gone towards more worthy purchases.
Of course that's all just my opinion :) But orchestral emulation is one arena where the old adage 'you get what you pay for' holds true in most cases.
Good luck!
#7
1. modern PC sound cards have pretty darn good wave tables. and the Mac ships with a Roland sample set for quicktime midi playback.
2. If you are looking for the best quality, do it on a synth/keyboard/midi machine, and record it down to an MP3 or OggVorbis file for playback. Consistant quality on all machines then.
d
02/03/2002 (9:52 am)
Well,1. modern PC sound cards have pretty darn good wave tables. and the Mac ships with a Roland sample set for quicktime midi playback.
2. If you are looking for the best quality, do it on a synth/keyboard/midi machine, and record it down to an MP3 or OggVorbis file for playback. Consistant quality on all machines then.
d
#8
I've found that you have to decide if you're doing something "imitative" or "derivative".
If you're doing "imitative", it means you _have to_ make people think the music is "real". So, if you have to do a string thing you need to make it sound like real string players. The best way is to get a great sample library, write that and have real players replace the sampled stuff in a real studio. Of course, that's beyond the budget of most projects. The second best way is to get a sample palette of many different ensemble sizes, articulations and whatnot, put that together and overdub a few "real" players. The third way is to do it without any real players.
If you're doing something "derivative" that means you may be using the "function" of an instrument but you aren't trying to fool anyone into thinking that it IS such and such an instrument. A good example of a derivative sound is synth brass. Its a sound that's been used so much that its become its own "function". Same with synth strings and the dreaded DX electric piano.
My long-winded explanation of all that aside, I think wavetable synths are fine for writing. Depending on how you play them, they can probably sound very musical. However, I think audio is still superior, certainly its more convenient and there are fewer playback variables to worry about. As Joel mentioned above, you'll always be at the mercy of the user's soundcard, be it the latest WhizBang SuperGamer or a 2 operator Yamaha FM chip (whee!).
If you have to do imitative, you have to bite the bullet and get a decent sample playback engine. GigaStudio, Halion, some hardware thingy, whatever. Get a few players to record some overdubs and rock out. If you do have to be imitative, do derivative. Its a lot more fun. Get a "fun" synth...for me, that's something like "Absynth" or a "Minimoog". There are tons of really nice _synthesizers_ out there, many of which are quite affordable and powerful. Find something that makes you sound musical and rock out.
The "rocking out" bits are the most important! ;)
03/10/2002 (1:04 pm)
Hi JamesI've found that you have to decide if you're doing something "imitative" or "derivative".
If you're doing "imitative", it means you _have to_ make people think the music is "real". So, if you have to do a string thing you need to make it sound like real string players. The best way is to get a great sample library, write that and have real players replace the sampled stuff in a real studio. Of course, that's beyond the budget of most projects. The second best way is to get a sample palette of many different ensemble sizes, articulations and whatnot, put that together and overdub a few "real" players. The third way is to do it without any real players.
If you're doing something "derivative" that means you may be using the "function" of an instrument but you aren't trying to fool anyone into thinking that it IS such and such an instrument. A good example of a derivative sound is synth brass. Its a sound that's been used so much that its become its own "function". Same with synth strings and the dreaded DX electric piano.
My long-winded explanation of all that aside, I think wavetable synths are fine for writing. Depending on how you play them, they can probably sound very musical. However, I think audio is still superior, certainly its more convenient and there are fewer playback variables to worry about. As Joel mentioned above, you'll always be at the mercy of the user's soundcard, be it the latest WhizBang SuperGamer or a 2 operator Yamaha FM chip (whee!).
If you have to do imitative, you have to bite the bullet and get a decent sample playback engine. GigaStudio, Halion, some hardware thingy, whatever. Get a few players to record some overdubs and rock out. If you do have to be imitative, do derivative. Its a lot more fun. Get a "fun" synth...for me, that's something like "Absynth" or a "Minimoog". There are tons of really nice _synthesizers_ out there, many of which are quite affordable and powerful. Find something that makes you sound musical and rock out.
The "rocking out" bits are the most important! ;)
Torque Owner Rick Overman
I have seen foley CD's for as low as $200 and up to as much as you want to spend.
--Rick