Do you think violent video games make people violent?

#61 Talk about coinsidence: Brain sees violent video games as real life -study

#62 That isn't a very scientific study. If it were, the scientist would have used serveral different genres of video games to test against as controls and measured the same parts of the brains to see players responses. Anyone that took any science class at the college level would know how to do a true study - that is unless the experimenter where biased in their opinion and tested only what they knew would prove their hypothosis. If they media weren't so lazy, they would have picked up on this too. But what makes the better headline?

#63

Quote:Adults are not so much influenced as by this stage of development we already have a very good sense of right or wrong. However a child is another matter entirely. Children take pretty much everything they see and hear as fact until told otherwise. A five to twelve year old playing GFA isn't likely to think it's just a game and is likely to try out the moves on their friends just for fun.

I think the violence aspect is ok as long as the games are then sold and played by consenting adults and not bought and gievn to young children whose minds are easily influenced.

I think to some extent, this may be true, but I still think it really comes down to the individual child and their tendencies. I believe some people are good / rotten from birth, but may be swayed to the other side... which is where guidance kicks in.

This may sound bad, but I have ALWAYS let my kids (now 7 and 13) watch horror movies and play GTA. But I was always there to guide them by reinforcing their entertainment's artificial nature.

My youngest daughters favorite movie (since she was 4) has been Evil Dead... because she loves the make up used for the creatures. One of her favorite games is actually GTA... because she likes collecting the cash to buy items (she does avoid beating up the old ladies however). To this day she still comments on how amazed she is that people can act like the characters in real life.

It's funny... Despite all the above, I am still a victim of American society, where I feel violence is ok and sexual issues are to be kept from the children until about 12; which is why I had to be creative and call the hookers in GTA "Virtual Heal Givers". :)

-Jeff

EDIT:Fix quote syntax

#64 At least you are teaching your kids the difference between reality and movies/games etc. If all parents did that I'm sure we wouldnt have the problem we have where media jumps on the bandwagon.

Not sure if the news made it to the States or not but we had a problem in the UK where one young adult (14 not really a kid) killed another in the "style of" the game Manhunt. The media were all over it claiming Manhunt gave turned him to do it. (BBC Article)

What they failed to mention was that it was the victim who owned the game not the one who killed him and the one who killed him was a drug addict and robbed the victim of his money to pay for his addiction.

#65 I suppose that violent media could influence young children... if they were raised in a social vacuum.

Even honest-to-goodness sociopaths know what's socially acceptable/ unacceptable - violence just don't affect them personally. There's a huge difference.

Here's what gets me red in the face - read the article Burning posted and ask yourself: "If the parents don't care, why does that make it my responsibility?"

Don't get me wrong, there are definitive lines for me between what is an isn't acceptable content in the media and entertainment I choose.

When I encounter something that exceeds the limitations of what I deem acceptable, I use the facilities we already have in place to raise protest; economics.

People need to vote with their dollars on this, not their congressman... but that would mean they might actually have to do something. =/

#66 "Killing Monsters" just arrived in the mail. I started reading it. I won't post anymore on this topic until I've completed it and digested it (mentally).

#67

Quote:but that would mean they might actually have to do something. =/

Thats a scary thought to most

#68 You can also look at this like so...

In the cartoons on TV these days, you see so and so the villan shoot so and so the hero, and so and so the hero falls over like he's dead, then jumps up again after being shot in the face repeatedly

Then lets take the first Half Life, and when you pick up your shotgun, and blast away the first scientist to see whats goin to happen, he crumples up in the corner with blood all around him, he doesn't jump back up like nothing ever happened.

Now, you tell me, if a child see's the elmer shoot bugs, and it doesn't even hurt bugs, then the kid see's the scientist in half life blasted away and dead with blood everywhere.... Which one is going to have the bad influence? Yes, as far as I'm concerned, games decencitise people, they've done it to me, but I don't remember having the impulse to grab a handgun and just lose it in walmart...

Who knows though, this issue if it's even one could be debated for all etirnity, the fact is that no matter what, 10 year olds are going to be playing violent video games no matter what, and is that face going to stop us game developers from doing what we do best? I know it's sure not going to stop me.

Max

#69 I love "fake" violence... but can't really stand real violence. I cheer at the sight of an exploded head in X Game, but wouldn't even want to see that in real life. I think its a matter of knowing reality. But i've killed thing in the video game world since i was like 8... and i haven't killed anything yet..... yet..... might start slaughtering someone if i can't figure out how to code torque properly though :)

#70 Violence debate:

1950's - "Comic books cause children to be violent and dilinquint", "Rock n' Roll causes children become sexual promiscuity"

1960's - "T.V. causes children to be violent and dilinquint"

1970's - "Cartoons cause children to be violent and dilinquint"

1980's - "Heavy Metal is corrupting our youth to drugs, sex, and violence! Must have parental advisories or ban it!"

1990's - "Spanking your child makes them violent!"

2000's - "Computer games are making our children violent!"

Anyone else see a trend? Sounds like a cop out to bad parenting to me. I have 2 kids and I don't make these claims. I've been partaking of all these forms of entertainment for 34 years and they haven't done this to me, on the contrary, they are thereputic and keep me balanced. My Mom used to spank me BTW - and I still love her. Go figure...

#71 If you look how things have changed in 50 years... you can't really use that as a "trend" (referring to Alans post) ... Sure, there are bored people out there that feel good when they can get 10 other people the think Games or TV is bad. But look at how violence increased over the years... The Critics are hammering on the wrong things though... which is games at the moment... The reason being, that they stand a better chance of winning than they had with videogames... Adults can tell a convincing lie easier, whereas the youth can be tricked into saying things without thinking about it... It's all about these people that need a powertrip.

It does influence people though. But so does everything else like said before (TV, Books, Music)...
The influence is small though... It wont change a person who thinks killing is morally incorrect to actually thinking it's alright... Then there's actually pulling it off (killing a person).... That's another step WAaaay futher than just thinking about it...

It's about these so-called leaders/activists/liberals powertripping when they convince someone else (who probably don't even have children) about things that has nothing to do with them.

#72

Quote:But look at how violence increased over the years...

What's interesting about that statement is the perception of increased violence... which is fully understandable (i.e. I wont be arguing with you. 8D).

Just for kicks, here is a little bit of what I know on the perceptions born from T.V.

I work heavily in the media industry as my primary job. One of the things we do aside from make television programs, is teach media literacy. Media literacy in case you don't know, is the knowledge of media tricks to dupe / sway / trick people into believing certain things without actually lying. This is done by using sexual subliminals (an image of a creatively split baked potato with a bottle inserted just inside with sauce coming out), trend spoofing (inundating the audience with certain shows or images so they think it's popular), and many other tricks and tactics.

There is really no way to know if violence has increased, unless you compare accurate police report studies across any given area... and depending on how quickly the (if) accurate trend increased, there really is no way to know why... is it due to increased population?

What I find interesting, is that the type of news you see comes in waves. You will see a few months of a war (even though there is always a war going on in the world)... then a few months of child abduction stories (even though children are being abducted every day of the year)... then natural disaster stories (there are always fires/earth quakes/whatever), and waves of violent crimes (someone gets murdered almost daily).

So I guess the summation of this long winded post is... without a detailed report of all violence done daily matched with all variables such as population increase, no one can really say for sure if violence has increased over the years.

-Jeff

EDIT: syntax

#73 Little Rock, Arkansas used to be the murder capital of the country (about 10 years ago). Now it is a very safe city. I can walk in areas I wouldn't drive through at 100mph 10 years back. So the "violence level" has decreased. But yet, more computers and violent games are in Little Rock than 10 years ago when you think about playstations and xbox's and pc's, etc.

So... go figure.

#74 Violent video games keep people from killing people. Maybe you need an outlet for your impulses. Like i love watching Jackass... THEY do it so i don't have to! yet i get all the benefits of laughing my ass off without having to do the stuff.

#75 I found your discussion on violence connected to video games while doing reverse searches from hits to my site, VisionAndPsychosis.Net.

There is a magic bullet that will cause violence and other serious mental events for players. It has little to do with violent game content.

The problem was discovered by designers when knowledge workers using the first close-paced office workstations began having mental breaks. The Cubicle was the solution by the 1960's.

The act of reading a computer monitor creates the same concentrating mental state that knowledge workers must enter to perform their work.

Anytime a computer workstation or student study area is located where there is repeating detectable movement from behind, that workstation must have Cubicle Level Protection. This is simple and FREE. (Read ...Preventon... at the bottom of most site pages)

The source of that movement need not be office staff walking beside an unprotected desk. I have an email from Ben Stein that a large fish was in the tank beside Tommy Stein when he had the problem with Everquest. (The Everquest Connection page)

A site posted by the Library at Miami of Ohio shows an unprotected desk in a very small two person dorm room where Ron Tammen disappeared in 1953. (Missing Students page)

A journal entry left by Jeff Wise, Redlake school shooter, tells of his watching movies while using his computer. If one monitor is in far peripheral vision while another is being used motion in the second monitor can be detected if there is enough contrast. This creates the same circumstances that allowed the original discovery. Small head turns toward a source of movement makes it appear to approach from behind, relative movement.

Day trader shooter Mark Barton left notes telling of extreme unattributed fear. He sought help believing he was having a mental break. The day trading companies failed to provide Cubicle Level Protection and Barton had as many as three computers he used at home.

Dual controller games put a source of detectable movement in the peripheral vision of the active player. That too is the same situation.


The warning on CD's should be for this design problem rather than seizure disorder.

If you have access to game producers send them to my site.


http://VisionAndPsychosis.Net

#76 Why on earth would movement in your peripheral field of vision cause pychosis?

It is far more likely that the stimulation from such peripheral movement would cause someone already pre-disposed to such episodes to go over the edge as it were. The same mental process as described in your email is also present when driving a car from A to B. While this may be the cause of road rage. It clearly does not affect the majority of people.

Are you going to create a controlled study for this or is there already a study on-going?

#77 I don't know what causes the mental break. But I suspect that as the brain attempts to understand and use the subliminal input to cause a peripheral vision reflex it eventually is confused by that attempt. Your brain must grow connections between neurons to effect memory and other functions. I suspect that eventually inappropriate connections are made altering the thought process.

When this came up in a psychology lecture the explanation for it was that as the person continues to ignore the repeating reflexes a conflict arises in the mind then builds to a mental break.

When the problem was discovered it only caused temporary episodes. Those would resolve no treatment. But that is not true in other cases. When you look at Qi Gong and Kundalini Yoga long term exposure creates permanent psychotic states. (See site pages)

It may be that there is a genetic component. Side by side seating in all classrooms is the same design situation that allowed the original discovery. Children as young as five develop Schizophrenia. The usual onset is in adolescence. Puberty changes body size so that movement of near by students is easier to detect. The genetic component may be an increased ability to detect movement in far peripheral vision, Subliminal Peripheral Vision. Students with high abilities fall victims first but exposure over years eventually catches up with children who only have normal abilities for detection of threat movement.

This link will take you to the page on that subject. It is not complete of course but there are links to other material.

http://visionandpsychosis.net/Psychotic_Mental_Illness_Cause.htm

I will be away from my computer in about a week on vacation but you can use an email link on site to leave a message for me.

#78 I think this is a matter of degrees. It depends on to what degree you play something, or to what degree you measure violence.

Like I stated in a post on this thread a while back, I believe that violence doesn't necessarily MAKE them violent, but only desensitizes them. Let's clear this up a bit - when I say it "doesn't necessarilly MAKE them violent", I'm saying it doesn't cause them to go off and randomly start killing people. However, it does desensitize them, given long-term EXCLUSIVE exposure.

Take my litte brother for example (BTW - this is true). He watched me play GTA when he was 5, and a few days later, he wanted to play. So I thought, What's the harm? After a few days of playing GTA, and ONLY GTA (meaning he didn't play any other game during that time period), I could see changes in his behavior. He started almost re-enacting himself shooting people, and now, everytime we watch an action movie, he's always like "shoot him shoot him!" or something.

That is an example of what I mean be desensitizing. He no longer becomes aware of how bad "real" violence really is, and becomes predisposed to use violence as the solution.

#79

Quote:

Or what if kids read and are taught one of the most violent books in existence... The Holy Bible

I'm gonna try to steer away from being over-religious, but even though the Bible (or other religious books for that matter) has induced violence such as the crusades, one must understand that the crusades were based wholly on human nature. THe Bible never ordered them to loot, or to kill ruthlessly.

And even if it contains a form of violence in itself (such as the wars), it does not go into the extreme detail that video games display now. Like I said before, I believe it affects people ONLY if they are exposed to it EXCLUSIVELY over a long period of time. The Bible does not solely cover the wars between different groups.


>_< i hope i haven't offended anyone.

#80 Maybe... Just maybe.... You think others are ignorant because you're too uneducated to understand their own perspective.