Covered it before, lets cover it again...

#1 Wow. That is probably the most frightening game development article I have ever read.

Unfortunately Gonzo, I doubt there is any way to stop it.

"A good defense, is often a strong offence"

Why don't we do the same. Start patening our ideas. Try and take an indie slice of the pie. I'm sure we can figure out who the indies are and who aren't. Only allow indies to utilize our patented ideas. Mind you, that would be incredibly difficult to do with such a large crowd.

#2 "Unfortunately Gonzo, I doubt there is any way to stop it."

That's exactly how you get NOTHING done.


"Why don't we do the same. Start patening our ideas. Try and take an indie slice of the pie."


Sure thing, just 25 grand a pop. How many can you get right now? I might be able to scroung up enough for one by the end of this year. How many tens of thousands of them do you think EA and MSFT will have by then?


EDIT: Right now MSFT can afford 2,600,000 patents without going broke. That should be enough to guarantee that all games are made by MSFT. Don't think it will happen? It was once said the Twin Towers would never come down also. How about EA? EA will do absolutely anything to stop competition from even starting competition with them. What better way than to Patent everything. And you do know EA is the worlds biggest game maker don't you?

#3 Sounds like the perfect premise for a game....

#4 @Gonzo - I am as upset as you are about this. But you need to calm down if there is a logical solution to be found.

I didn't know they were 25,000 a pop. That's nuts... MSFT can't patent everything, that is absurd. The logical question is, what can be patented ? What can they take from us ? and how will it affect us ? Same for EA. They can't patent what doesnt belong to them. So let's find out what they could (potentially) take from us.

I still don't think we can stop it. I am not saying there is nothing to be done. Think about it logically. Do you think you can stop the patent office from acepting video game patents ? Not to mention the large revenue they generate from it, it is not something that is likely to happen. Can we stop EA and MS and countless others from patenting there tech... uh, no ? So what solution does that leave us with ? We can't afford to patent our own tech. I mean, if GG could find a key tech to patent and license it along side Torque, then you may have a partial solution. But that is the only logical solution I can think of.

You offer the problem, but only trash my solution (no logical and constructive criticism)...
Help develop a solution!

#5 "Think about it logically. Do you think you can stop the patent office from acepting video game patents ?"


Videogames by ALL definitions should fall under the catagory of "Publishing". Even the game makers are reffered to as "Publishers". How many patented magazines, movies, or Albums have you seen? Exactly, published works can only benifit from Copyright protection.



Now Chris, let me ask you...


Think about it logically. Do you think WE(as in enough of us raising hell nationwide) can stop the patent office from acepting video game patents? Because that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. They are getting away with something they should not. The patent offices are granting som of the most incredibly stupid patents you will ever hear of just because they have no idea how to handle it. Well, I say we help them learn how to handle it.


Want to know how bad it can get? Google got a patent on...

"returning a search result in bold font"


http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20050071741&OS=20050071741&RS=20050071741%20


Can it get an dumber than that? Patents are meant to protect INVENTIONS, not to prevent competition from using bold font. How in the hell can bold font be patented in any way shape or form no matter how it's used? Considering bold font was around a few centuries before Google, it really doesn't make sense that they invented "Bold font answers"


This crap has got to stop.

#6 Gonzo - You think the solution is enough of us stirring the pot ? That would take ALOT of us. Is there no other way ? How do you suggest we go about it ? Strongly worded letters ? Strongly worded email ? Petitions ? Give me some substance here.

I can agree that things should be copyrighted and trademarked, not patented. Though it may be truthfully warranted in some cases.

EDIT: I should note that I am Canadian, if that makes any difference. In todays electronic world, it really doesnt matter.

#7 I think Gonzo has a point, we need to start shaking things up until they update the patent system for this day and age. It isn't unreasonable at all, things need updating as times change, this is one of those things, I completely agree that its gotten ridiculous.

#8 But HOW to shake things ? We need a game plan if we are ever going to change it.

#9

Quote:You know, having GG back an initiative to put an end to this might really help get some attention.

Thats a good start.

EDIT: there are lots of ways to do this... can try and get support from other game companies, or companies with influence, start petitions, online as well as paper, submit articles to increase awareness, spread the word... etc... maybe even the same idea behind "viral marketing" but with something like this.

#10 People are already fighting against software patents in general, not just game related. demo.ffii.org/index.php For those in the EU. Also www.eff.org/patent/ Also www.nosoftwarepatents.com/

What is scary is the number of programs under threat from software patents. ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/

#11 Thought I'd relay a patent I heard about on the news a while back:
www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12780383-13762,00.html

edit: EFF (http://www.eff.org/patent/) seems to be approaching this in a very formal way. They are collecting research to invalidate patents then sending a reexamination request to the patent office to get them to revoke the patent...

Mind you, this doesn't stop companies from obtaining new, and illigetimate patents.

#12

Quote:But HOW to shake things ? We need a game plan if we are ever going to change it.

How indeed. I have no clear answers or hardcore solutions myself. I'm currently doing research and just trying to get myself a full blown education on the matter. You really don't have to know very much at all to know this is wrong, so the solution is most likely going to be mor public education, and a lot of hell-raising. The old saying goes..."The squeeky wheel gets the grease" so ultimately we need to squeel like pigs until someone cant take it any longer and gives us what we want. "Us" being not just the few of us here, but those that support the same ideas worldwide. We have the internet at our fingertips, lets use this bastard to get something done. If we don't do this now, there may never come another chance, and you can bet your kids will not have any of the fair chances we used to enjoy. They will be born into a world where wealth is already distributed, and patented, and even if they could invent, they would be financially squashed.

#13 Bold font. The matrix. This is rediculous. If Nintendo was smart they would have patented the modern controller, the D pad, analogue sticks, rumble technology, shoulder buttons, wireless controllers, and face buttons formed in a diamond configuration. Guess they just aren't bastards like that. I wonder what we WILL be able to create in 6 years. Will polygon technology be patended by then too? Just like EA trying to own Football, I don't see how any of this can be good for the industry. We have less options everyday. These companies are destroying the industry.
-Ajari-

#14 "we need to squeel like pigs until someone cant take it any longer and gives us what we want"

I totally agree.

I guess I am just curious where to start squeeling... Is Garagegames, both as a community and a business, willing to back this and squeel along side us ?

Perhaps the place to start is with educating our respecitve governments. Starting with provincial parliment (don't know the state equivalent in the US)...

@Ajari - The matrix isn't what the patent is for. It is for the technology to beam data directly into the human brain.. Which is, in my opinion, a legitimate patent. It's the illigetimate ones we need to focus on...

#15 Nintendo got the rumble pack, but it was already patented as far as I know by some other company, and they paid a license. Sony got sued because of this with their 'shaker' pads (forgot the exact name)...

Anyway, many patents granted seem to be covered by prior art, so when it goes to court the offender (us?) will hopefully know this making the patent void. However... this way of doing it might break a poor indies back. I saw IBM releasing over 300 of it's patents for common use (Still retaining rights, but allowing anyone to use without royalties). Maybe this is a way to go for us indies? Create and organization to pool up resources in and patent what we can so these patents can be be free to use by any of the organizations members?

In the end... it seems like the lawyers want more to do these days, and that's the real reason they want the game industry to patent everything from grandmothers to yesterdays trash (ie prior art) just to get some court time...

#16 Or maybe just setting up a lawyer organization for us indies to help protect and give indies guidance in this jungle of patents... Membership based? Might work.

#17 Oh, come on, the article is bold advertisment. Look at the authors- hey, surprise, surprise- they're patent lawyers!

#18 I like Anders idea, especially since if you patent a "killer feature", it can be used as a bargaining point with say, EA, so they will agree to allow the organization use of their patents in return for using the org's, effectively nullifying the usefulness of game related patents.

In any case, the practice that article is encouraging is bad, bad news. What no one seems to be taking into account, is how easy it would be for example EA (sorry, but they're just so huge) to simply buy up tons of small companies, close them down, and simply retain their patents, until they have a patent monopoly. Lets face it, sure we could play games with prior-art elements, but how many people really play pac-man anymore (and I mean in relation to how much you might play, Half-Life 2)?

#19 At least John Carmack of id Software hates video game patents too; that's a bit of good news.

#20 There are many industry professionals that are against it, and we need to ssupport them, and encourage them to fight as well. Let them know we are behind them. Let them kow that we will continue to support those companies which do the right thing. Give them the voices and the political power they need to push for massive reforms or even abolishment of software patents.


Did you see this link? Words cannot express the amount of disgust I have for these practices...

webshop.ffii.org/


And yet another scumbag company with the only license they need to rob everyone till the sun burns out...

management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39122923,00.htm

E-Data should be brought up on charges and it's officers imprisoned or shot.