The Illinois Law and Indies

#1 It's a pain in the butt law. I livein Illinois, and while I'm 22, some of myfriends younger siblings are really ticked off.

As for online sales, I dion't see how they would be affected, you have to be 18 to use a credit card anyway.

#2 Wouldn't be the first time a kid used a credit card.

And some titles don't require a credit card.

#3 No it wouldn't be the first time a credit card was used by a minor, that's true. But the problem remains, how would you prove your age online?

#4 Also, you are selling it to the credit card holder who would be 18...

#5 Greg H. is correct. If the title is purchased by credit card, it doesn't matter WHO used the card, the card owner is the official buyer and they will be 18 or older.

#6 Well as I also said, there are other methods of purchasing games online than a CC. On the blog I list REL Games' Deadhunt as an example of something that could be tagged by this - it's violent and it's purchaseable by nearly every means possible. Any kid with a bank account and a email address can use Paypal, which isn't exactly an uncommon form.

Plus, this law is quite vague about downloadable content. If you are a retailer and you allow someone to download violent content for free (a demo), there's nothing in the law to specifically protect anyone from that. The law reads like it was written by people who don't really acknowledge the internet's existence (probably because it was).

#7 For those wishing to read the law see:

Bill Status of HB4023 94th General Assembly

#8 I read the new law and it would seem to be pretty easy to get around it...


Before anyone can purchase the game, notify them they have to be 18 to purchase the game, make them hit 'OK' and then make them input their birthdate when they make the purchase. According to the law, if they make false claims about their real age, you are off the hook and they are in violation of the law. Problem solved.

#9 Wasn't there a thread about this before? o.o

Well, like I said before (in the last thread...), it's not really banning minors from playing, just that they can't buy it themselves.

But, as we are looking at it from an indie/retailer point of view, Gonzo's method probably seems fit...albeit backhanded....

#10 I'm guessing that free games are also subject to this?

#11 Hard to tell Ken. The core "crime" of the law is this:

A person who sells, rents, or permits to be sold or rented, any violent video game to any minor, commits a Class A misdemeanor for which a fine of $5,000 may be imposed.

For the most part, it seems like if you don't sell or rent anything - it wouldn't concern you. So for now, mod teams, for example, have nothing to do with this bill. But since the aim of the bill is public safety, the avenue would seem to head in that general direction. My guess is that demos, web games, etc., aren't covered here specifically because the Illinois Assembly wasn't too aware of them - but if the goal as described by their "findings" is any indication then that kind of material would fall under the same situation as a vendor giving away free smokes at a bar. You still need to get ID.

The general consensus seems to agree that consent forms would be the way to go. If you're going publish violent material, treat it a bit like porn. Even if the law seperates them, consent should work the same, and as mentioned ... places the responsibility on the consumer to be honest.

For more discussion on this and some links to help word such consent, there was a follow up on Cathode Tan.

#12 Question is, can you be prosecuted for this crime if the server they download from and your self doesn't exist in Illinois. It's kind of a grey area after all.

#13 And it's a good question. Mainly the flag I'm raising is that the law doesn't seem to acknowledge it one way or another ... which definately seems to place it in a grey area. All I can say is that it's been my experience that e-commerce retailers are somewhat responsible for obeying certain laws in the places that they are willing to ship to ... but I've never encountered something precisely like this.

Fortunately, from reading some other analysis on the bill, it seems like this exact vagueness might be what brings it down.

#14 You can definately be prosecuted even if you're out of state. If you had a good enough lawyer you'd probably get off, though - maybe with an argument about how this interacts with interstate commerce, which is the federal government's jurisdiction.

#15 On a side note, I noticed the new Quake 4 site required you to put in a birthdate as well.

#16 The problem is HOW do you determine WHERE the action happened. If said person was to say, drive to Kentucky, buy the game, and then drive back to Illinois, no crime would have been commited because the purchase was in a state without said law(one of the many issues with regulating the net I guess)

#17 I think this is good

So minors have to get their parents to buy their violent games (or older friends/siblings), just gives one less excuse for parents who don't monitor their children's activities.

#18 Except that overwhelmingly, the parents are the ones buying this material in the first place - so this won't really change anything when it comes to the children. What it will do is put retailers at more financial risk and open the door for frivolous lawsuits. It's the politicians and lawyers who come out ahead on this one, not families.

#19 I know what you mean, though It takes away an excuse from the parents, so they can't point at the state government and say that they are selling their kids the games. Maybe will force some accountability on those parents that don't bother to even look at the ratings.

I think Gonzo hit it though, putting an age check thing for online sites really isn't that hard, most of them require basic information anyways. It also won't be that big of a deal for game retailers to card gamers, not really that bad of a concept, in AZ where I live you have to be 21 to buy a lotto ticket, if they have to card for gambling why not "violent games" ?

I really don't see it as much of an effort for retailers, if anyone It would be the online sales, though I would think asking for age information and birth date is good enough, maybe they'll ask for some other age verification). Plus as stated the majority use CC's anyways, the ones that don't will just have another means of age verification or if the legislation permits asking for birthdate good enough.

Personally with some modification over time I would like to see this pass as a federal law, I really like how this would take the excuses away from the parents.

#20 This doesn't take an excuse away, it's just one step closer to "Best Buy didn't educate me enough on how to parent my child". If anything, it just makes it easier to blame the retail store. If someone forgets to stamp a game or put up the correctly fonted sign, then it's not the parent's fault. And damn, if some poor clerk forgets to check the ID of some 17 year old kid buying Halo 2 ... they could be out five grand. Is a parent's inability to control their kid worth some wageslave's summer paycheck?

This doesn't force more responsibility on the parent - it's justifies them not having to parent.

Worse, though, is the link of casuality that this places. This law affirms that video games lead to violence in society and that Congress has a right to watch out for public safety. That's just the kind of law that carrion like Jack Thompson needs to win a case against Rockstar when some kid blames his Playstation for sniping his neighbor's head.

Let's go back to why we make laws in the first place. This is for the public good? Where's the epidemic? Where is the wave of youth related violence? Where is the hoarde of teenagers running over old ladies? I haven't been by a high school lately, but my impression is that they aren't a group of trained assassins.