Which tools should I spend money on?

#1 I use GCC (through MinGW on Windows). It works fine for me, and it is free, :).

Also, you may want to check out the "Torque Build Environtment", which consists of a free IDE (Eclipse), MinGW and Msys. I don't have the link off hand.

Also, in the book, UltraEdit was used for scripting (as far as my reading has shown), and I have no idea what he used to compile that version of the engine.

EDIT: Woah, I guess I typed faster, :).

Robert

#2 Torque Build Environment

But you cvan use VS 6 to compile. TBE is a great free solution, though.

In 3DGPAI, you'll be using the scripting engine and not the C++ source. The scripting engine can be used from any text editor. The book uses UltraEdit, but you can use what you like.

What other tools are you looking at? Modeling and mapping tools, especially.

EDIT: Robert got to it before me! DAMN YOUS!

#3 If the TBE is good enough to compile and build then that is what I will use. I am not sure what MinGW or Msys is I will have to do some trolling on the boards to find out. I have never used UltraEdit but I have used ConTEXT before just need to find a Torque setting file.

As far as other tools I would like to try QuArk if it is anything like map editor from 3dGS product. Although I have never tried tool that comes with Torque so I dont know which I will use. I also have no modeling experience so i will leave that up to my partner.

One more question when does C++ come in the game dev and when does the Scripting come in? Like when would I use each? And is it possible to make a game with C++ using Torque....not that I have anything against C++ (only that I hate it) :)

#4 TBE uses mingw. It's an IDE environment with an open sourced compiler. You can use any text editor, but some have nifty features (syntax higlighting, etc). Quark isn't nearly as intuitive as WED, though. It is, however, free. Cartography Shop is much more intuitive and has a price-tag associated with it (though not as high as Radiant).

The engine itself is in C++. Game logic can be completely done in script, or if you need the speed of compiled code, you can do it in C++.

#5 If you don't mind paying (what I will assume to be) $25, you can get Torque Constructor. It is, if I remember, a MAP editor built onto Torque, meaning it would be cross-platform and QuArK is not.

Please, if I made any mistakes above, correct me.

Robert

#6 I Constructor were out now, I would have pimped that. But it's not out yet. I was concentrating on current tools. But it's definitely good to keep track of those down the pipe!

#7 You could just use WED if you already own a license to it.

#8 So what about models? Can I use Maya PLE to get models in the game? What (again free) tools do you suggest for modeling? I was wondering if it supports Maya PLE.

#9 No support for Maya PLE (or more correctly...Maya PLE doesn't support TGE).

Only free model editor with direct support for Torque is Blender. Milkshape costs $25 and has a nice exporter also.

#10 Ok I don't know the genius that made blender but I can't stand the user interface to it. It seems so difficult to use. Ah oh well not my problem I will put that on my artist... :) Ok so here is my shopping list

3d Game Programing Book (Torque)
Blender and or Milkshape
TGE


What do you think?

#11 If you want to keep things low cost... use Milkshape 3D and Unwrap 3D. They are real good and come in usefull. Gimp is a free paint program. JEdit for a free editor. TBE for a free compiler. Quark for interiors (comes in 3GDPAI1).

#12 Generally speaking you pay for what you get. If you buy low-end tools you save yourself dough but can cost you or your team productivity because it might take you longer to do something. Its a horrible trade-off that you unfortunately need to make from the very get go.

Personally I recommend buying the higher end pro tools, especially for art. Applications light Milkshape or Blender or GIMP in the right hands will allow you to do good art, but it will take your artist longer in comparison to what you would see if you bought Maya, Max, XSI, Lightwave, Photoshop or Deep Paint. I also recommend avoiding the bullshit of jumping your work between applications, some people here will swear that going from Blender to Untimate UVW to Milkshape works like a charm, but from my professional experiance its nothing but a pain in the ass when you need to make changes or adjust something. I also recommend locking in the art pipeline early with specific tools/applications and methodologies.

#13 I wouldnt think jumping from App to App would be a good thing either I will definetly point that out to my art lead/co-producer :) I stopped by Barnes and Noble today and thumb through that book that uses TGE. I see it comes with a full set of tool to get base line stuff done. I know I will pick that up first just to get into it. Thanks again do any of you know where the "showcase" threads are kept? On the 3dgs site they have a show case forum I was wondering if they had anything like that here.

#14 The closest thing to a "showcase" I can think of is the Torque Notes page.

#15 I've used TBE to compile both TGE and T2D multiple times, though I prefer and mainly use VC 7. Blender works well, though I prefer Max, and GIMP is good, though Paint Shop Pro is a good cheap alternative, but I prefer Photoshop... Like Logan said, its a horrible trade off

Free Solutions:
2D Image editing (textures etc) - The GIMP
3D Modling (dts) - Blender
3D Modeling (dif) Interiors - Quark

Low Cost Solutions (recommended value):
2D Image editing - Paint Shop Pro
3D Modeling (dts) - (very low cost)Milkshape (still fairly cheap options)truespace/gamespace/XSI
3D Modeling (dif) - Cartography Shop, with Torque Pipeline

High Cost (in my opinion the best options):
2D - Photoshop
3D (dts) - 3DS Max
3d (dif) - Constructor when it comes out, Cart shop until then (probably not high cost options, but recommended)

#16 Hopefully Torque Constructor won't be high cost ;-)

#17 I strongly second Logan's comment on tool-jumping. While I don't have huge workflow problems between 2D apps as long as I keep up on the file-types and limitations (no layers, etc) that each on has. 3D applications are horrible when it comes to consistency. Even for "open" or compatability formats. I often use Silo to create complex meshes and then import them into Lightwave. Silo's OBJ exporter kills Lightwave and their 3DS exporter does some strange things to the geometry (and the importer for both Lightwave and Maya does some even stranger things to it). Things move from an exact science to a very imprecise one. I can't even imagine what Bravetree had to go through to get Jill working on several fronts. ZBrush has some interesting quirks, but for $500, it's one hell of a 2.5D paint package. Still, the 3D aspects need a lot of work when interacting with other programs. Modo is one of the few that interacts nicely with both LW and Maya (from my experience, which has been limited but extremely nice in comparison to other apps). A lot of it probably has to do with my sucktastic artistic skills, but still.

#18 Showcase

#19 There seems to be some confusion in the editor/IDE area. At least one person recommended jEdit AND TBE.

jEdit is a Java-based text editor. It has a plug-in architecture that allows it to do some project-management things, but for the most part it is a programmers text editor. Syntax highlighting, folding, things of that nature. Good stuff.

The TBE is built on "Eclipse". Eclipse is a Java-based IDE. Integrated Development Environment. In addition to a text editor (with most-but-not-all the features available on jEdit), you also get full-blown project management, integrated debugging, and a few Other Things.

While there is some small benefit to using TBE with jEdit, I'd think it'd be more hassle than its worth. I recommend sticking with Eclipse's built-in editor.

#20 And Eclipse is TBE correct?