Teaching Game Development to kids
by Ron Barbosa · in General Discussion · 05/23/2005 (7:50 am) · 18 replies
Hello GG Community,
As most of you here, I've been playing games and interested in learning how to make them since I was a kid. Well, the resources for learning game development in my youth were few, far between, and often overly complex.
I'm a crusty old man with children of my own today, and my son (who's been playing games since the womb) is beginning to have an interest in learning how to create the games he's always played.
Can anyone out there suggest some books that are aimed at kids interested in learning how to make games? I saw a commercial for one on G4, and I wrote down the title, but I can't seem to find it.
He's 12 years old, but fairly bright and could certainly follow books aimed at an older audience.
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Once I learn more about Torque, I intend to work through the creation of a simple game project with him.
Torque Script often has me baffled, however, so this has been slow going. ;)
Thanks guys & gals!
--RB
As most of you here, I've been playing games and interested in learning how to make them since I was a kid. Well, the resources for learning game development in my youth were few, far between, and often overly complex.
I'm a crusty old man with children of my own today, and my son (who's been playing games since the womb) is beginning to have an interest in learning how to create the games he's always played.
Can anyone out there suggest some books that are aimed at kids interested in learning how to make games? I saw a commercial for one on G4, and I wrote down the title, but I can't seem to find it.
He's 12 years old, but fairly bright and could certainly follow books aimed at an older audience.
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Once I learn more about Torque, I intend to work through the creation of a simple game project with him.
Torque Script often has me baffled, however, so this has been slow going. ;)
Thanks guys & gals!
--RB
#2
I actually have a copy of Ken's book. I think it's a bit heavy in terms of syntax. I don't want to bog him down with specifics about using a particular language or a particular engine...I'd just like him to get a feel for the concepts and the flow.
Thanks for the additional title list. I'll have to check those out.
Thanks again!
Ron
05/23/2005 (8:06 am)
Thanks much, Chris!I actually have a copy of Ken's book. I think it's a bit heavy in terms of syntax. I don't want to bog him down with specifics about using a particular language or a particular engine...I'd just like him to get a feel for the concepts and the flow.
Thanks for the additional title list. I'll have to check those out.
Thanks again!
Ron
#3
Glad I could help you out man. I could see the issue with Ken's book. I'd suggest having him start with something like Visual Basic (Visual Basic Game Programming For Teens by Jonathan S. Harbour) and working up from there. VB (or Basic, whatever you'd like to start with) is real easy and does a good bit of the stuff for you. It's defintely a good starter language. Then gradually work him up to C++ and such.
Maybe even have him start with JavaScript. You can do a couple little games with JS and it's roughly the same skill level for VB and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a VB compiler or anything, just use good ole Internet browser of choice.
Chip
05/23/2005 (8:12 am)
Actually it's Chip not Chris :P hehe Glad I could help you out man. I could see the issue with Ken's book. I'd suggest having him start with something like Visual Basic (Visual Basic Game Programming For Teens by Jonathan S. Harbour) and working up from there. VB (or Basic, whatever you'd like to start with) is real easy and does a good bit of the stuff for you. It's defintely a good starter language. Then gradually work him up to C++ and such.
Maybe even have him start with JavaScript. You can do a couple little games with JS and it's roughly the same skill level for VB and you wouldn't have to worry about getting a VB compiler or anything, just use good ole Internet browser of choice.
Chip
#4
I would suggest picking a particular aspect of game development that he seems to have more of an interest in.
I'm doing something similar with my son and his friends. They really don't have too much interest in the programming side so they are sticking with the artwork. I attempt to work on the scripting and other development tasks myself as well as overall direction in the game development. The kids are very creative so they tend to like the art and design side more than programming.
From my experiences so far, there is so much to game development that its hard for one person to learn all of it well! I'm exposing him to Maya and Photoshop and trying to keep him working on his traditional art skills as well. I believe if he continues to have interest by the time he's 17 or 18 he'll have a good chance at getting somewhere in the industry if he so chooses.
Good luck to you.
Steve
05/23/2005 (8:50 am)
Ron,I would suggest picking a particular aspect of game development that he seems to have more of an interest in.
I'm doing something similar with my son and his friends. They really don't have too much interest in the programming side so they are sticking with the artwork. I attempt to work on the scripting and other development tasks myself as well as overall direction in the game development. The kids are very creative so they tend to like the art and design side more than programming.
From my experiences so far, there is so much to game development that its hard for one person to learn all of it well! I'm exposing him to Maya and Photoshop and trying to keep him working on his traditional art skills as well. I believe if he continues to have interest by the time he's 17 or 18 he'll have a good chance at getting somewhere in the industry if he so chooses.
Good luck to you.
Steve
#5
Thanks for the updated info...I had seen some books on Javascript game development. Those might be a good start for him and I know enough Javascript to be helpful. ;)
Steven, I agree...the kids are typically interested in graphics and design. The code work seems too much like school work to them, I think. ;)
I'm a lousy 3-D artist, so it's tough for me to suggest that to him...because it's something that I couldn't really help him with. But at the same time...it's his interests that matter here, not mine. And I can certainly back up his artwork with some scripts that will "make it go" so to speak.
All good suggestions, men! Keep 'em coming.
05/23/2005 (9:09 am)
Chip...way sorry about that, man. I'll read names more carefully next time. My fault.Thanks for the updated info...I had seen some books on Javascript game development. Those might be a good start for him and I know enough Javascript to be helpful. ;)
Steven, I agree...the kids are typically interested in graphics and design. The code work seems too much like school work to them, I think. ;)
I'm a lousy 3-D artist, so it's tough for me to suggest that to him...because it's something that I couldn't really help him with. But at the same time...it's his interests that matter here, not mine. And I can certainly back up his artwork with some scripts that will "make it go" so to speak.
All good suggestions, men! Keep 'em coming.
#6
I would suggest maybe looking at the Maya PLE (Personal Learning Edition) from the Alias website. It's a good program to get the feel for Maya but be warned that there are some limitations with the PLE version. You won't be able to use the stuff he creates in a game etc.. but It's a good program to mess around with a program that is being used heavily in the industry today. That coupled with Photoshop and he's well on his way to having skills he can use in the real-world (i.e., professional development studios) if he so chooses later on.
Of course, I'm no game professional myself so take this all with a grain of salt.
Blender3d is a good 3d modeling program that you can get for free and use with Torque, however, from what I've read, most game development studios (besides Indies) don't use it. But the basics are the same regardless of what software you use. You'll then need another tool to make the textures for the models. Once again, I'm using Photoshop CS, another industry standard. If you don't want to buy Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro is another good low-cost alternative.
The only other piece of software you'll really need is something for the interiors (.DIF - buildings). QuArk which is free but a little hard to get used to or CartographyShop which is about $65. We are using CartographyShop.
I went the route of letting my son learn Maya and Photoshop. It's been a little expensive, but if he sticks with it, I think I've done my job as a parent in teaching some useful skills he can put to good use later on.
Also, just because your 3d art isn't where you'd like it doesn't mean you can't encourage your son to pursue art. Granted, artists don't command the salaries that programmers do (according to the developer salary survey) but I'm a firm believer in doing what you like, not necessarily what makes the most money.
With my son I work with him on the art side and also show him (from 30,000 feet) how it all ties together with scripting and C++.
I guess the hardest part for me is not to rain on his parade and allow his creativity while balancing the reality (that he will probably not be making a SOE killer) of game development as an Indie with only a couple people, all who are brand new to the scene.
Steve
05/23/2005 (10:36 am)
Ron,I would suggest maybe looking at the Maya PLE (Personal Learning Edition) from the Alias website. It's a good program to get the feel for Maya but be warned that there are some limitations with the PLE version. You won't be able to use the stuff he creates in a game etc.. but It's a good program to mess around with a program that is being used heavily in the industry today. That coupled with Photoshop and he's well on his way to having skills he can use in the real-world (i.e., professional development studios) if he so chooses later on.
Of course, I'm no game professional myself so take this all with a grain of salt.
Blender3d is a good 3d modeling program that you can get for free and use with Torque, however, from what I've read, most game development studios (besides Indies) don't use it. But the basics are the same regardless of what software you use. You'll then need another tool to make the textures for the models. Once again, I'm using Photoshop CS, another industry standard. If you don't want to buy Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro is another good low-cost alternative.
The only other piece of software you'll really need is something for the interiors (.DIF - buildings). QuArk which is free but a little hard to get used to or CartographyShop which is about $65. We are using CartographyShop.
I went the route of letting my son learn Maya and Photoshop. It's been a little expensive, but if he sticks with it, I think I've done my job as a parent in teaching some useful skills he can put to good use later on.
Also, just because your 3d art isn't where you'd like it doesn't mean you can't encourage your son to pursue art. Granted, artists don't command the salaries that programmers do (according to the developer salary survey) but I'm a firm believer in doing what you like, not necessarily what makes the most money.
With my son I work with him on the art side and also show him (from 30,000 feet) how it all ties together with scripting and C++.
I guess the hardest part for me is not to rain on his parade and allow his creativity while balancing the reality (that he will probably not be making a SOE killer) of game development as an Indie with only a couple people, all who are brand new to the scene.
Steve
#7
The following was a site dealing with teaching kids game programming on a middle school
level. Don't know how far along the project is yet, but you may wish to give it a peek.
Drop us line from time to time, haven't heard from you in ages.
http://www.rapunsel.org/
05/23/2005 (10:45 am)
Hey Ron;The following was a site dealing with teaching kids game programming on a middle school
level. Don't know how far along the project is yet, but you may wish to give it a peek.
Drop us line from time to time, haven't heard from you in ages.
http://www.rapunsel.org/
#8
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592000681/102-0297563-4383319?v=glance
Ah ... someone already listed that ... not sure why I didn't see it the first time through.
At any rate about 2 times a year I take on a handful of kids and show them the ropes for my old middle school. Find a game development environment that you can utilize and then let your child tell you what he'd like to see. Then guide him through the process of getting what he wants to see in the game. I typically have only 5 hours ... and I get some crazy requests from the kids during the 'career shadowing' but we always end up being able to put together a decent level for the to play on and they get a good understanding of the big picture. Using Torque's in game editor ... even without any TorqueScript might be a good place to start.
Basically, start him out with the big picture ... the forest and then start breaking it down smaller and smaller ... Seems to work for me.
05/23/2005 (11:14 am)
Have you checked out Game Programming for Teens?http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592000681/102-0297563-4383319?v=glance
Ah ... someone already listed that ... not sure why I didn't see it the first time through.
At any rate about 2 times a year I take on a handful of kids and show them the ropes for my old middle school. Find a game development environment that you can utilize and then let your child tell you what he'd like to see. Then guide him through the process of getting what he wants to see in the game. I typically have only 5 hours ... and I get some crazy requests from the kids during the 'career shadowing' but we always end up being able to put together a decent level for the to play on and they get a good understanding of the big picture. Using Torque's in game editor ... even without any TorqueScript might be a good place to start.
Basically, start him out with the big picture ... the forest and then start breaking it down smaller and smaller ... Seems to work for me.
#9
When I was 8 or 9, my dad sat me down in front of the Apple ][, and had me type in a bunch of hex (10 to 15 bytes IIRC). We ran it and out popped "Hello World"... but it just seemed like a magical incantation to me... random noise that was magically (and incomprehensibly) converted into a couple words on the screen.
Machine language at age 9? Probably not. Basic/JS at 12+? Sure, go for it.
As far as the 3dGPAi1 book goes, I'd think that torquescript isn't really any different from JS in terms of syntax... plus it'll be Much Cooler to see the results in torque than as text on a screen.
05/23/2005 (11:34 am)
Based on a childhood experience I had, it's probably best to start slowly with programming:When I was 8 or 9, my dad sat me down in front of the Apple ][, and had me type in a bunch of hex (10 to 15 bytes IIRC). We ran it and out popped "Hello World"... but it just seemed like a magical incantation to me... random noise that was magically (and incomprehensibly) converted into a couple words on the screen.
Machine language at age 9? Probably not. Basic/JS at 12+? Sure, go for it.
As far as the 3dGPAi1 book goes, I'd think that torquescript isn't really any different from JS in terms of syntax... plus it'll be Much Cooler to see the results in torque than as text on a screen.
#10
Hey Dale...long time no speak...life's been hectic since the move to South FL. I'll be coming back to GI as a TA again soon. There's a problem with my account...they've made me a TA...but they haven't given me access to the classes that I'm supposed to assist with. =)
It'll be worked out soon enough.
But, I digress. My plan has been to try at first to keep him isolated from the coding aspect, and just let him show me what he wants to do and I'll have him help me get it done. Then draw back the layers of the onion and show him some of the mechanics. The problem with this approach is that I find Torque Script to be wild and unruly. So I'd like to make sure I get a handle on it before we start. =)
Thanks again, all!
05/23/2005 (12:42 pm)
Thanks again for all the responses...it's no surprise to see how many people have or know children who are interested in learning "the craft." ;)Hey Dale...long time no speak...life's been hectic since the move to South FL. I'll be coming back to GI as a TA again soon. There's a problem with my account...they've made me a TA...but they haven't given me access to the classes that I'm supposed to assist with. =)
It'll be worked out soon enough.
But, I digress. My plan has been to try at first to keep him isolated from the coding aspect, and just let him show me what he wants to do and I'll have him help me get it done. Then draw back the layers of the onion and show him some of the mechanics. The problem with this approach is that I find Torque Script to be wild and unruly. So I'd like to make sure I get a handle on it before we start. =)
Thanks again, all!
#11
Sounds like a good approach. That's what I've done with my son. When he said he would like to learn how to make games I started looking into what was involved. That's what prompted me to buy the TGE. I then gave him an overview and just let him glance at what a programming language is (TourqueScript and C++). I then started him off on the art because that's what comes easiest to him.
I'm sure after a while he want to learn TorqueScript himself because he'll probably get tired of me saying "I'm not sure that's possible" or more exactly "I don't know how to do that yet!" :)
Have fun.
Steve
05/23/2005 (12:47 pm)
Ron,Sounds like a good approach. That's what I've done with my son. When he said he would like to learn how to make games I started looking into what was involved. That's what prompted me to buy the TGE. I then gave him an overview and just let him glance at what a programming language is (TourqueScript and C++). I then started him off on the art because that's what comes easiest to him.
I'm sure after a while he want to learn TorqueScript himself because he'll probably get tired of me saying "I'm not sure that's possible" or more exactly "I don't know how to do that yet!" :)
Have fun.
Steve
#12
05/23/2005 (2:22 pm)
Ah ... teaching the kids from middle school is fun and rewarding ... but ... I can't wait to have my own kids. They're going to be programming geniuses! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA! 
#13
seo-toys.com/seo-books/free.php?in=us&asin=0672326922
05/23/2005 (3:08 pm)
I know that this is probably considered evil to say here at the GG website, but, you might try out 3DBuzz's book on Unreal level and mod making. It is HUGE, but it covers everything from scripting to model making with Maya PLE and it is FULL of illustrations. Just full of illustrations. If I hadn't already learned most of it the hard way I would have bought the book myself. Here is a link to Amazon, but I found it myself at a local Barnes and Noble.seo-toys.com/seo-books/free.php?in=us&asin=0672326922
#14
It does have an excellent level design tutorial...
The kid who mows my lawn got interested in game design, so I gave him a copy of it in exchange for mowing my lawn all last summer. He did some really great games (for an 11 year old anyways), and is now wanting me to teach him C++.
05/23/2005 (3:25 pm)
Actually and this will be the only time you'll ever see me recommend this product, you might want to look at Conitecs A6 game engine. It's a pipeline complete solution, that really needs no coding to make simple FPS games out of the box.It does have an excellent level design tutorial...
The kid who mows my lawn got interested in game design, so I gave him a copy of it in exchange for mowing my lawn all last summer. He did some really great games (for an 11 year old anyways), and is now wanting me to teach him C++.
#15
Wings3d is a good free package for playing about with its at www.wings3d.com
In the UK Computer ARts, 3Dworld etc covermount full free apps on occaison, recently they have given away Truespace 4 and if memory serves Cinema 4D ver 6.
Another possible route is to use one of the click and create types of apps like the Game factory. Its usless as a programming tool, but gives good incite into the developing process and prototyping 2d. Its at http://www.clickteam.com/
There are a wealth of free resourses out there to get the bairns started in what ever area of game dev they are keen to learn and its fun watching their faces light up as they see there work actually appearing on the screen :)
Cheers
Garion
from Scotland
05/23/2005 (3:26 pm)
I have started teaching my twin girls aged 11 to program in BBC basic, simple stuff at the moment. I plan to to take them up to Blitz Basic after this and also give them a grounding in 3D/2D Graphics.Wings3d is a good free package for playing about with its at www.wings3d.com
In the UK Computer ARts, 3Dworld etc covermount full free apps on occaison, recently they have given away Truespace 4 and if memory serves Cinema 4D ver 6.
Another possible route is to use one of the click and create types of apps like the Game factory. Its usless as a programming tool, but gives good incite into the developing process and prototyping 2d. Its at http://www.clickteam.com/
There are a wealth of free resourses out there to get the bairns started in what ever area of game dev they are keen to learn and its fun watching their faces light up as they see there work actually appearing on the screen :)
Cheers
Garion
from Scotland
#17
My plan from there is just to show him that we can add these things to the FPS demo. Then I hope to be able to show him how we can manipulate these things using TorqueScript.
I'll let you all know how it turns out!
Thanks again!
--RB
05/26/2005 (7:14 am)
Hey everyone, thanks for the great suggestions. I've begun asking my boy what it is he would like to design/contribute to a game project. He's interested in building characters. So I'm working with him using Milkshape to build a few unanimated bipeds. We're also going to build a few props (crates, badly modeled cars, etc.) and assets.My plan from there is just to show him that we can add these things to the FPS demo. Then I hope to be able to show him how we can manipulate these things using TorqueScript.
I'll let you all know how it turns out!
Thanks again!
--RB
#18
Mark
Goliath Forge Online
06/06/2005 (12:27 am)
Good to hear you are doing well and congrats on the SX3 contrib.Mark
Goliath Forge Online
Associate Chip Lambert
Crusader Games
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/104-2613713-9670309
That contains some books for teens and programming.
Hope that helps ya out some man.
Chip
EDIT: Link doesn't work here's the names of the titles:
Game Programming for Teens by Maneesh Sethi
Visual Basic Game Programming For Teens by Jonathan S. Harbour
Game Programming for Teens, Second Edition by Maneesh Sethi
3D Game Programming for Teens by Thomson Course Technology PTR Development
Game Design for Teens (Premier Press Game Development (Paperback)) by Les Pardew
Beginning C++ Game Programming (Game Development Series)
Game Art for Teens (Game Development Series) by Les Pardew
An amazon search of those will give you a price and a brief description.