Ben Garney's Forest Pack Status?
by Jay Barnson · in General Discussion · 05/22/2005 (4:49 pm) · 146 replies
I know Ben has been swamped with higher-priority things lately, but I've been anxiously awaiting news of the forest pack that he was working on way back when. Is that one going to see the light of day anytime soon, or is it in a pretty back-burnered state?
If it's pretty much dead, is there any chance that what was done on it might get released to the community in its existing state?
If it's pretty much dead, is there any chance that what was done on it might get released to the community in its existing state?
About the author
Jay has been a mainstream and indie game developer for a... uh, long time. His professional start came in 1994 developing titles for the then-unknown and upcoming Sony Playstation. He runs Rampant Games and blogs at Tales of the Rampant Coyote.
#63
I must say that I am certainly looking forward to the pack and will purchase it immediately.
06/03/2007 (9:39 am)
Well I think it is best to lighten up on GGs. I know this may sound wierd coming from me, being quite critical of them in the past, but they really do have a great product. Some of these things will take some time and some delays. At the end of the day, the only thing preventing us from finishing our products is our own lack of effort. Certainly there are other parts of our projects that can be given more attention while we wait.I must say that I am certainly looking forward to the pack and will purchase it immediately.
#64
That said... we'll be putting up a plan tomorrow.
06/03/2007 (11:57 am)
To be clear the Forest Kit is a Sickhead product now... it's my responsibility and not theirs.That said... we'll be putting up a plan tomorrow.
#66
06/03/2007 (11:08 pm)
Release schedules are a damned if you do and damned if you don't type of scenario. If you try to hit a schedule and are falling behind you either have to delay, in which you will be chastised for missing your deadline, or to rush it, in which case you will be criticised for not properly testing or for cutting features. It's a lose-lose situation for the developer. 
#67
06/04/2007 (12:05 am)
Hence a rather understandable result would be a developer not wanting to announce anything for fear of reprisals and things that go bump in the night ;p 
#68
I've worked with SpeedTree quite a bit while modding for NWN2 and I have mixed feeling about it. The trees look great and you can easily build a beautiful forest with it. It has downsides however. There is a relatively low limit on the number of tree type + seed value combinations that you can use without choking your video card. Might an alternate approach be to integrate Agea and use a particle effect for the foliage if the user has a PPU? As far as I know, particle effects are what the PhysX card does best. You could then make them sway in the breeze and flutter without moving the static mesh. of the tree trunk.
I do like the fractal generation of tree trunks with SpeedTree.
06/04/2007 (1:49 am)
I'm a complete noob at Torque, so take this with the appropriate grain of salt. I've worked with SpeedTree quite a bit while modding for NWN2 and I have mixed feeling about it. The trees look great and you can easily build a beautiful forest with it. It has downsides however. There is a relatively low limit on the number of tree type + seed value combinations that you can use without choking your video card. Might an alternate approach be to integrate Agea and use a particle effect for the foliage if the user has a PPU? As far as I know, particle effects are what the PhysX card does best. You could then make them sway in the breeze and flutter without moving the static mesh. of the tree trunk.
I do like the fractal generation of tree trunks with SpeedTree.
#69
@David - Well in general you don't really need many unique geometric tree types to make a good scene from my experience. Rotation, scaling, and texture variations go a long way. That said, DTS based trees can be less resource intensive because they don't have all the cool features of SpeedTrees.
06/04/2007 (6:50 am)
@Neo - I don't really worry about it... we ship when its ready. I didn't start my own business to sweat what people say via the anonymity of a forum. The ship date was really more for me to know when to say stop. ;)@David - Well in general you don't really need many unique geometric tree types to make a good scene from my experience. Rotation, scaling, and texture variations go a long way. That said, DTS based trees can be less resource intensive because they don't have all the cool features of SpeedTrees.
#70
06/05/2007 (2:01 pm)
Tom, does the Forest Kit work on the same principle as fxShapeReplicator? eg. Tree placement is randomly determined on each client?
#71
06/05/2007 (3:17 pm)
@Mark - I honestly have never really looked thru the fxShapeReplicator code, but yes the Forest Kit does place trees using a special deterministic random creation routine on the server then on each client.
#72
06/05/2007 (3:24 pm)
Ok, here's the crux of what I'm asking: does each client have the same tree positions as every other client? Honestly, I don't see this or fxShapeReplicator as being truly useful unless this is true (in a multi-player game).
#73
06/05/2007 (3:47 pm)
Of course... each client gets the same forest. That's the deterministic bit.
#74
06/05/2007 (3:50 pm)
Alright. If every client sees every tree in the same spot, then we're golden. Let me know when I can buy it!
#75
06/06/2007 (2:09 pm)
Did any of Ben Garney's original code or technology (or even plans) get brought in by Sickhead, or is this effectively a project restart?
#76
06/06/2007 (3:30 pm)
@Jay - It all started with Ben's original code drop back in August 2006. Another cool GG contract (one that hasn't been released yet) distracted me for a few months, but in February i got back into it. At this point almost everything has been refactored to make the move to TGEA and the ability to plug in DTS and/or SpeedTree meshes.
#77
06/06/2007 (4:38 pm)
I'll be interested in the TGE version provided the port actually happens and its features are sufficiently interesting beyond the use of shape replicators w/ LODs. I have no immediate plans to migrate to TGEA.
#78
06/06/2007 (5:10 pm)
The issue with TGE is that you loose the shaders which we take advantage of in TGEA, but we do plan to have a TGE version.
#80
06/06/2007 (5:28 pm)
Got any screen shots kicking around Tom? 
Torque 3D Owner Tom Perry
Yeah, I was wondering where Melv has gone too...