Electronic Arts says indie won't cut it

#81 I don't judge success by money :) If I make enough money to live and have a little fun along the way while helping to insipire people to follow their dreams in making their own games with true quality and innovation then I am far more rich than all of EA.

#82 Let's make a football game to take on Madden haha... MMOG TSE Football League.
With vibrating chair and ice cooler for cold beer built in. USB 2.0 supported.

#83 Word :-)

#84 I don't think EA can cut it, so meh, we're even.

#85 "I don't judge success by money"

and thats why you dont understand how ea works. Games to them is a business not some ideal playland to experiment all willy nilly as you see fit (boy those were the days).

its like what others have said and I too believe, if someone gave you 20 or 30million to make an mmo game your not going to do some way out there experimental game design (in fact the investors are unlikely to let you anyway after all its there money). You more like to do something mainstream that you know is going to get you subscribers and make some money.

like I said experimentation is for the indie people to resolve, try out, and test.

big companies worried about stock price, the bottom line, etc are unlikely to take such risks, doesnt mean they wont be successful (in fact EA is rather huge, employees a lot of people, and makes a lot of money, something indie gamers still have yet to accomplish).

EA will probably be around long after your crazy game designs are long dead and forgotten so be nice, you may actually need them some day to promote your game, get it on the shelf or buy you out.

if your idealist gamer who doesnt care about money (hope you have a day job) then none of this matters, do what you want to do.

I would complain more about someone making millions off your idea and you not getting anything. happens to all of us in the game industry, they get rich and make millions off of all our hard work and then cant come up with a simple 5% raise for all our efforts.

sometimes its better to be indie so you can do what you want, but Im not ready to go broke following that stary eyed dream. if thats your gig then good luck with that.

"I don't think EA can cut it, so meh, we're even."

then your just naive. a company with over a billion in cash in reserve? a company thats many many times larger then the number 2 publisher. LOL, they more then cut it, they employee thousands of people, make there investors tons of money, and still keep there eye on what you guys are doing.

i hate to seem like im defending them but everyone always loves to pick on the big guy cause its such an easy target but they are kicking everyones ass bigtime. dont have to agree with them, dont have to like them, but you should respect what they have accomplished.

#86 Someones on a high horse...

"and thats why you dont understand how ea works. "

No I understand just fine, know some people that I respect that work there even... its just not for me. When they're dead and gone will that money buy them a place of respect in those that are around... ;) nope

"not some ideal playland to experiment all willy nilly as you see fit"

glad you can grab all that from a paragraph statement of mine that focuses on people following their dreams and making quality products. I plan to make money in Game Dev... my goal isn't to make as much money as possible though, if I do, then what the hell, if not at least I will have succeeded in something that gives me a great sense of accomplishment than money.

"EA will probably be around long after your crazy game designs are long dead "

Have you ever even read any of my "crazy" game designs lol... I don't think I've ever even posted a full one on this site so I'd assume not.

"if your idealist gamer who doesnt care about money (hope you have a day job) then none of this matters, do what you want to do."

I have a day job, you'd be surprised how qualified many of indie game developers are and that many of them have done quite well in other career fields... they just would rather do something that means something to them vs. earning lots of money.

"dont have to agree with them, dont have to like them, but you should respect what they have accomplished."

and what have they accomplished? Really... they've sold lots of units and made lots of money. Tobacco companies do the same selling cancer to people, should we respect them because they made a lot of money.

Obviously making a lot of money is an accomplishment to you, so be it, you have right to your own opinions... just because they're yours doesn't mean everyone else has the same :) To me accomplishment is what GG is doing, doing what they enjoy and giving people opportunities at a sacrafice to themselves, then again you might not understand that ? (note the question mark, I'm 'asking' not saying you don't)

#87 I would agree with him to a point. The video game industry has got to the point where to release a mainstream game like Half Life 2 or DOOM 3 it would take a major developer and publisher. The thing is most indies are not trying to make a Half Life 2 or DOOM 3 killer but rather trying to make games that are fun. I think that what EA needs to understand is people want fun games and don't care if the graphics are amazing. Sure graphics might be nice but I still would list Marble Blast among one of the games I really had fun playing.

#88 I've noticed that the word 'Indie' carries a stigmata with it, for many it kind of labels you as a wannabe game developer, or a hobbyist, bedroom coder etc. All these things with bad connotations.

A lot of people here on the GG forums have already made commercial games, and worked for EA one way or another (myself included). I've noticed more and more professionals turn indie in the last 5 years and the quality and polish of titles has skyrocketed, often as a consequence of this. As Developers get older and find that the way typical commercial game dev's work leads to a lot of money, little creativity and not a lot of spare time. In otherwords it ammounts to poor quality of life. Been there, done that and ruined my health over it more than once.

All this is multiplied when you reach about 30 and you decide to settle down, get married and have kids, need a stable job, settle and not move around every couple of years as your job dictates. But what if you REALLY love making games and can't really see yourself doing much else?

Many of us refuse to quit and end up here making Indie games in what time we have to spare. I've published two ok indie titles and my company has gotten some recognition. Been in several gaming mags, on TV, and helped me with my other work as a contract 3D artist. I'm not trying to compete with EA, and don't need $3,000,000 to make an average commercial game. I'm making the bilk of my money from contract work and when things are tough the support of my wife. My partner Jeremy branched off of his family business and started a successful wooden flooring company to finance his ambitions.

Currently a 2 man team is enough to get started and build up to greater things. Eventually as we start making enough, we want to rent office space and hire a couple of extra people that complement our skill sets and move onto bigger more demanding projects. Were not in it for the money so much as enjoying what we do and wanting to make enought to keep us going and develop comfortably full time.

Rest assured, the big boys like EA watch what successful indies are doing, and where they see ideas that work, you will take these ideas and encorporat them into their own games. Not a lot to be done about that.

The really great thing is doing what you want, and being in control of what your doing and where your going. I still end up working crazy hours just like I did when I had a 60k sallary. But I do it for my own reasons, not because someones holding a gun to my head, we only have self imposed deadlines, and should we need to, we can always take a couple of days off. But when we do have long hours we don't mind, because we understand why were doing it (not always the case when developing comercial games, where bad management and forced crunch don't always have to have a valid reason for being).

#89 @The Martian... I stand by what I said. They can have all the money they want but that doesn't mean they are making good games. There was no point in you stating they have lots of money - I'm sure everyone here understands that.

#90 "if your idealist gamer who doesnt care about money (hope you have a day job) then none of this matters, do what you want to do."

I personally live on a about 35% of the amount that what I would be making had I stayed at my "day job" - and you know what? I've never been happier... Sure, I have less cool shit, but I spend more time with my wife, i take time out of the week to do whatever the frak feels like fun, and I do what I love - Make Games.

How many EA execs can take 2 months off work whenever the mood hits? Can pick up and move to a new city on a whim? How many spend more time with thier family than at work? ..... Exactly.

#91 K easy guys, I have made indie games as well, I also am a mainstream game programmer who has worked for ea and many others for many years and yes I have the wife and kids thing going on as well.

not sure what smoking has to do with making games, I dont respect EA just because they made a lot of money.
I respect them because they have somehow convinced a lot of people to buy the same rehashed game (with little improvements year after year and turn it into a huge business, thats some marketing power) which was one of the main complaints in this thread is that they just rehash the same game (well if you didnt buy them they wouldnt do it was my point).

you missed my real beef with them apparently, I work hard, Ive made them many many millions of dollars, but what do we get for the efforts, the countless late hours, all that time away from our families? ("How many spend more time with thier family than at work? ..... Exactly.") um on a major project I had no time to spend with my family so that are you talking about? the execs certainly had a lot more time then my team.

we get nada, either a minimal raise or walking papers.

its the main reason im even here and involved with indie type games, its certainly a lot more fun.

but, ea still serves a purpose, and if your someone who wouldnt mind making a great game and not having to work they rest of your life you might want to keep big players like EA in mind. Thats all im saying.

I love playing and making games but id love even more if I could spend all my time with my family and not have to slave over unrealistic milestones, get sidetracked with another demo, and work a bazillion hours a week and through the holidays, etc, and then maybe get a slap on the back and thanks when they turn that work in major bucks.

so maybe I didnt word that well in the other posts but thats pretty much what I was getting at.

so yes in some respects I would like to get a piece of that big pie for all of my efforst instead of it going into someone elses pocket. nothing wrong with that, and if it happens to be fun and enjoyable then even better.

then when I dont have to slave for someone else anymore I can work on fun side projects at my leisure, but for now I look at it like a business and a job and hope that I can call it fun on the next project.

(couple answers, yes these are my opinions and I certainly dont expect everyone to have the same one, and yes I completely respect GG and what they are doing for the indie community, Im not contesting that at all, in fact its communities and groups like them that can make my goals even more possible).

#92 I think EA is facing some real problems - quite possibly in this generation of consoles - as they start hitting the law of diminishing returns. The games business is largely a hit-driven industry, and in the past the solution was to simply throw more money at the problem. They spend their way to making a hit through extremely high production values (primarily in graphics), easily marketable licenses, and recently through obtaining exclusive locks on key markets (which they are paying through the nose for).

Budgets have been increasing much faster than the market is growing, which has obvious connotations somewhere down the road. But since the game the major publishers are playing is to invest that kind of capital into SEVERAL titles, most of which take a loss, it means that potentially they hit that wall a lot earlier on, as the unprofitable games loose MUCH more money and the big hits make much less.

Of course, they could also have been fibbing a little on how unprofitable so many titles have been - after all, a little creative accounting means you save money on royalties you'd otherwise have to pay out. So the wolf may be a bit further out from the door yet. But they can't sustain their pace in the money-spending race indefinitely.

#93 I'd like to think that Indy studios will always have the possibility of growing to the point in which they can become bigger companies. I'm aware huge gaming conglomerates like EA love to beat down on competition and even potential competition with their massive girth and financial prowess, but you don't nessecarily need a hundred million dollar profit on a game to expand your company a little.

#94 I can't figure out why anyone here gives a rip about what some executard has to say. Go make good games and don't worry about it.

#95 I guess if you follow (and believe) Tom Peters (tompeters.com) you'd just smile.

The fact that an EA exec can't imagine anyone competing with his company says it all.

Some upstart without that imagination deficiency will one day be eating EA's lunch.

#96 All this sounds like how people talked about msft 5 years ago.

#97 The exception being that Microsoft has demonstrated an annoyingly robust capability to adapt, adjust, and evolve depending upon the changes in the market.

EA is just trying to use its bulk to crack down on any evolution occuring around it, which never works for long.

Don't discount them - there is a LOT of smart people at EA, even (*g*) in upper management. I suspect that some of what they are saying right now could just be a smokescreen while they are figuring out new strategies themselves.

Really - we're in the same boat, guys (at least those of us in the U.S.). There are scrappy coders and artists out in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia who know how to make totally kick-butt games, and can live on what we'd consider starvation wages. How are WE going to compete with them? (No offense to you guys who fit this description - more power to you!)

#98 Well, I can think of one way, but that would require a UN mandate to register India and China as no longer being developing countries.

I'm sort of left with a predicament though... I can't stand EA anymore, yet I am also a big Peter Molyneux fan... it's rather sad really :M

#99

Quote:There are scrappy coders and artists out in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia who know how to make totally kick-butt games, and can live on what we'd consider starvation wages

yeah as a indie that relies on contract work mostly over the net for income this can be a very real problem. Many contract service providers are swamped with companies that can rent out a team at a california hourly wage. Often the highers total earners are from eastern countries and sometimes charge around $10 an hour.

the average anual GNI per capita in india is: US $540 (World Bank, 2005)

Thats equivalent to 2 weeks rent.

#100 If you've Ever Played an EA game. You know what total and complete crap big corp can churn out. He's right Indies are far to concerned with gameplay to match that.