Nintendo supporting indies?????

#1 It'll be interesting to see if this goes the way of the incubator program for the XBox. If they follow their normal suit, they will release their devkits to publishers (perhaps those who invest in indie and budget titles) and then let them manage the middle. If they release their devkit to anyone with a big idea, they'll have a huge "in production list" but next to no actual titles. I'm betting it has more to do with dealing with indie publishers of proven track record to bring games that will actually be made rather than those that are simply "a big idea".

#2 Ah, your probably right. Still cool that they are even considering it though.

#3 Nintendo sounds desperate to me. They have an underpowered system and a declining fan base. Only the die hard are still with them. Everybody else just grew up. When life gives you lemons (a weak system) make lemonade (pretend you wanted it that way from the start and try to appeal to a different crowd). Speaking of which, has anyone seen their new modem..err...umm...CD Rom drive...uh...I mean ...system? What do you think of it? I believe this is their last system. They will join Sega in about 3 or 4 years. They are just lucky there isn't a fourth company with a next gen system debut or they will be pushed out of the game much sooner.
-Ajari-

#4 You're way off base Ajari. Despite the fact that Nintendo came in 3rd place in overall home system sales they profit about as much as Sony. Additionally, the Game Boy sells more systems than anything else. Nintendo's got billions in the bank and have no reason to go anywhere because they still make money whereas Sega was losing money.

I'll always support their stuff and I've heard quite a few people who like their system design a lot better than the curvy Xbox 360 and PS3. Personally, I'm liking the PS3 but there are a lot of people who like that black elegant stealth look and the Nintendo system does that very well.

If they support indie titles ... I'll try to get on their system.

#5 We're talking about home consoles, not the hand held market. I believe the GBA is the only thing keeping Nintendo in the game. If Sega had another revenue outlet I'm sure they would still be making systems as well. The Cube has hardly any support when it comes to publishers. Just like the 64, I can name all their exclusive games on one hand that are worth even looking at. I see Nintendo as being slowly phased out of the console market. In fact, they are helping that process by introducing such a weak system basically taking themselves out of the competition with Sony and Microsoft. Now they re-sell all their old games from 20 years back and cater to the indie market. Newsflash Nintendo!! Everybody already has your old games from 20 years back. Either through an emulator of some kind or through the GBA titles they keep re-hashing. How many times do you want me to buy Super Mario Brothers? It's called residual income and that is exactly what Nintendo is living off of.

When it comes to the look of the system, it's a matter of opinion obviously but to me it looks like something you would stick inside your PS2 as an enhancement, not a stand alone system. Revolution...where? They should have called it the Nintendo Flashback. I haven't seen one game at E3. Not even a controller. All this comes into factor in peoples minds when choosing a system. Nintendo has fallen off. I'm very dissapointed. They saved the industry back in the 80's, invented and redesigned the controller we use today several times over. They were the greatest. Now they're a joke. I have owned every major Nintendo system from the NES and SNES, to the dissapointing N64, and now the Game Cube and GBA so I'm not just some Nintendo hater.

Supporting the indies is all good and I embrace that. But I still can't shake the feeling that they are being forced into another direction because they can't compete with Sony and Microsoft and the bruises of two failed systems is catching up with them. I'm just venting because I feel they have been making fatal mistakes since they tried to ban blood and gore in the SNES days and decided to stick with the cartridge format in the N64 days and it seems like they still haven't learned. I can't believe a company that has made that many mistakes is still in business. The Game Boy is Nintendo's savior.
-Ajari-

#6 Nintendo still makes mad money from it's console too ... they didn't lose money on the Gamecube and there are a bunch of good games that sell millions. Additionally, Nintendo isn't showing their cards right now ... and why should they? Let MS and Sony duke it out and then trump them with innovation. There's no reason for Nintendo to jump in and compete head on because people like you have already relegated them to 3rd place so they are coming in at a disadvantage when it comes to their reputation. They are being smart by holding back.

Just wait till they show off their controller design and they actually show off the system. You really have no idea how powerful it is or isn't. Also, I hate to say it but specs don't mean jack. Metroid Prime looks better than any game on PS2 or Xbox ... even though according to initial specs it looked to be the weaker system.

As far as the old games go ... you're being a little shortsighted again. There are a ton of new people who've never even seen an NES. Sure Nintendo has re-released titles before but why not open the whole library for play through the network? That's a good idea and I know I'll play a lot of the older games and it'll be nice to show newcomers (like my own kids when I have them) where everything started.

Can you honestly say you're more excited about the games on the 360 or PS3. I can't ... they all look like the same game!

Nintendo has never tried to compete directly ... that's not what they're about. They like to make it their own game and not just clone everyone else.

#7 The only quarter Nintendo has ever lost money was due to poor money market investments. They are still profitable, though not quite at the level they were during the NES and SNES days.

People are quick to dismiss them, and they didn't exactly treat their 3rd parties right back in the day, but they aren't dead, and they STILL make fun software(when they aren't simply re-releasing old titles on the GBA, or making yet another Mario Party game)

I'm not excited about the games on the Revolution either, but then again, I haven't seem them yet :P

#8 Good points Jeremy and Joshua. I hope your right.
-Ajari-

#9 Boing Boing made note of this as well, btw. I'll probably blog it up a bit when I get some caffiene in me ... but I really think the first console to get a serious open-ended framework going will see some serious benefits to it. I think Microsoft will take the lead (again) with Arcade and it sounds like Nintendo might be interested. Sony SO needs to open the PSP it's frightening. Especially with the rumors of it's convergence with the PS3.

Look at it this way. PSP hardware is sufficient enough to make a wide variety of games, but at the same time doesn't have the graphics addiction requirements of the PS3. It might be possible to play PSP games on the TV via the PS3 ... meaning you'd have a platform which was acceptable for both mobile and living room entertainment. This kind of "play anywhere" is ideal for shareware type games. Download a game off the net and then you could literally walk to your friends house with it.

#10 Nintendo is doing very well. X-box might have done fairly well in America, but the Gamecube clobbered it in Japan. I don't have any exact numbers but i believe Nintendo sold much better throughout the world than the X-box.

If I would worry about a system, it would be the X-box. How long can a product be sold at a loss? I know that companies rely on the game sales to make up for any hardware losses. But with consoles being backward compatible, yes, people may be more willing to buy the system but are they going to buy as many games?

#11 Of course people will buy next gen games. Backwards compatability only lasts so long before it gets old. Nobody is going to buy a next gen system just to play out of date games. Xbox didn't do well in Japan because it doesn't have the style of games they play. Xbox 360 is going to be another story. The PS3 may still do better over there this time around too but the gap will be smaller. That's what I think. Nintendo is the most Japanses of the 3 so they will always have a fan base over there. Japanese like some crappy games sometimes too. Who wants to play a date or roomate simulator? Those are thing I hope you would have covered in real life.
-Ajari-

#12 At Jeremy's second post, the Gamecube actually has quite a bit more power than the PS2
(just wanted to add to that comment)
and if you've seen God of War, then you've seen what the PS2 can do, and since the Gamecube is MORE powerful than that, it should be able to do all the stuff that's been done on the Xbox and PS2 it's just because of people taking on byast positions against Nintendo that the Gamecube doesn't have the same support as PS2 and Xbox. There is absolutely no reason that Nintendo should have so little support from publishers and developers. I think the only reason people classify the Gamecube as a "kiddy system" is 'cuz Nintendo has ended up overall supporting their own system and since they seem to have some sort of policy against having lots of violence and blood, their games are all rated E and T.

(I know a lot of the things I said weren't actually mentioned but they do tie in.)

#13 Oh, and on the subject of next-gen consoles;
Mike is on the right track if you ask me, just one thing it's MICROSOFT!! They can go YEARS losing money, in case you don't remember, people used to make MONEY through selling internet browsers, then Microsoft released IE for free, and it was better, so everyone stopped paying for everything else that was out there 'cuz they had made something better that was FREE. So they ended that whole business, now everyone uses IE,(and recently Firefox).
Now MY opinion, the reason Microsoft DOES have to worry is that backward compatibility is a big thing,
IN THE BEGINNING PS2 sold great cuz it came out early and cuz you could play any PSone games you still had, now in the next generation people will be able to play PS1 games and the truck-loads of PS2 games, on the "Revolution" you can play all the games nintendo has released over the course of 20 years,
I know that they are graphically inferior and what-not but anyone who thinks about it will realise, those games are still fun, and If it costs $5 for example to buy a game which will give you 20 hours of gameplay, wouldn't you prefer that over some $60 game that gives you 15? Maybe you wouldn't, but a lot of people would.

Basically my opinion is that the PS3 is going to dominate, and then the Revolution is going to be sitting right next to it on almost everyone's shelves.

Cuz if you want a lot of games, you'll get a Revolution, if you want a cheap system with a lot of cheap, good, games, you'll get a Revolution, if you want innovative games, you'll get a Revolution. Nintendo makes great, innovative games, and they have most of the great long-standing game franchises
(Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, etc...)

If you want a system with MUSCLE you'll get a PS3. One of the reasons Sony pulled out their measly PS2 so early and did good was because their WASN'T the promise of some HULKING, ENOURMOUS, POWERHOUSE looming over it's head ready to beat it's brains out with power AND more games than you can count. People didn't know about the Xbox when the PS2 was coming out. There was only the Sega.......Genesis(?). and everyone bought the PS2 in that fight also, because it was the cheapest DVD player you could get at the time, they're doing that again with the Blu-Ray, though I doubt it'll be cheap this time around.

#14 I remember a few years ago was difficult *but possible* as a small/alternative game developer to get a dev kit for the PS2, while nintendo was simply "forget it".

so if nintendo is now getting less than full support from the people they wouldn't open the door to,
they kinda brought it on themselves.

as for having a policy against lots of violence & gore, i'm fine with that.

#15 I'd like to point out that most of those classic compilation games that have been released lately have sold quite well. Much more than expected, in some cases. I remember Sonic Mega Collection was on top of the UK Xbox charts for a while. And all versions of it were in the top 20 for a long time, if you consider it's just a Genesis and Game Gear emulator, a few ROM images and some small extras like video footage and image galleries.

Some games in the GBA Classic NES series sold well too, some even being on top 5 charts. There is clearly a market for classic games.

And I'm glad Nintendo is doind what they're doing. If Nintendo were to walk the way Sony and MS are heading, we would have 3 consoles fighting for "D4 B35T GR4PH1C5 3V4R", instead of only 2. Nintendo's console wouldn't make any difference in the market that way.

That's why I don't get the general criticism. Do you people really want yet another Playstation (the PS3 and X360 both are "yet another playstations")? Why? To have the 3 of them sitting at home, playing the same games on different casings?

The way things are heading, I don't see many poeple buying both Sony's and Microsoft's. Both will a bit pricey, and they share too much commons to justify owning both for most people but the top hardcore, but I see the Revolution as a strong canditate for a 2nd console purchase. The graphics will not be as hot, there won't be too many GTA's on it (maybe), but some will be curious about whatever new controller that is, and the exclusive titles it'll bring with it. Some will play it at some friend's house and think "wow, that was fun and it's rather cheap too, maybe I should get one". Some might even buy it to use as an stilish wifi router (I'm pretty sure it'll work as a generic router). Of course, there'll be a bunch of people thinking "I am an adult and shouldn't play games that aren't R.E.A.L", but I doubt it'll follow the Saturn and Dreamcast route.

#16 I agree with Manoel, it's good that Nintendo isn't just trying to muscle their way in, it helps open up for innovation, for example a game like
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat would probably NEVER have come out if Nintendo wasn't around, if it weren't for them a lot of the games we play now would be much more bland and similar. Also, Nintendo will (by me) most likely take the second console spot, I doubt it will take first, but in the end for Nintendo, it will all depend on how big their "Revolution" really is, let's just hope it doesn't turn into a "Revoltion" like the Virtua Boy
(responsible for 80% of all bad posture you see!, lol)

#17 Heh, you can play all nintendo games back catalogue on the Xbox :) From N64 back. Allthough not legaly of course. I think MS will be fighting Sony again for first place, and look forward to seeing who comes out on top. As far as nintendo goes, I thought they got most of their funding in the last 5 years or so from other things like Pokemon.

I can't say I like Nintendo stuff, I've often liked the graphics, but once I play the game itself, there's rarely anything there to keep me hooked and want to keep playing. Maybe its the 30 something gamer, but I find most of them boring despite being different. I tend to not like simple pick up nd play games though, so perhaps thats it. My favourite games that I spent a lot of time playing tend to be games like Kotor, Fable, and Jade empire, Riddick, Project Gotham racers, or Forza Motorsport. Mostly the kinds of games that don't really come out on Nintendo systems.

#18 I think it's mostly because you didn't really grow up with Nintendo and you probably would feel silly playing their games as a 30 somewhat year old man ... unless you had played the characters as a child also, in which case it feels like a part of your very existence so you don't mind the child like nature of the games. When I play Nintendo's titles it gives me a pure feeling ... like being an innocent little kid again with no worries.

For me playing WindWaker ... it wasn't so bad Link is nearly as old as I am so I merely felt transported back in time ... we were both 10 year old boys again. For someone who never played the original Zelda ... it'd probably feel like your playing a game that your kid should be playing.

Perhaps when the new mature Zelda comes out you should give it a go!

#19 I usually like the gameplay more than the graphics if anything, except Metroid Prime I liked everything in that game, and even though their are emulators MOST people don't know how to use them, it's a lot easier to go to a menu and select a game with the A button. (I LOVE Riddick!) Some people don't like games that take time to really get interesting, on the other hand others love that type of stuff. No offense but I would describe Project Gotham and Forza as being pick-up and play, I know you can tune up your cars and all that, and that the racing mechanics are deep, but the core is the race, races don't take five hours.
Yes that's true what Jeremy said, it gives lot's of people that same feeling, besides games shouldn't be judged on just their LOOK, if anything they should be judged on their feel, their gameplay, like Counter-Strike.
Windwaker was a great game, and it doesn't matter what the graphics were like, even if they looked like something on the N64 it would have still had the same gameplay, graphics don't mean anything without gameplay, if you want amazing visuals and no awesome INTERACTIVE experience go watch a movie. Though graphics shouldn't be ignored of course! (i'm a graphic artist ;) the gameplay should be the FIRST and FOREMOST thing to concentrate on. GTA for example is on the PS2, had graphics that on the XBOBOX would qualify as lack-luster and mediocre at best, but the environment that the game sets up is just so apealing and interesting that the you stop thining about what the graphics would be if it had been developed for XBOX originally.
Like always, the console wars will really break down to being, once again, ALL ABOUT THE GAMES. If Nintendo's Revolution turns out to be something really big, they MIGHT be first, but even then, people like familiarity, that's actually one of the draws to playing old-school games is the familiarity, EVERYONE knows what world 1-1 looks like, but i'd still willingly pick up the controller to play Mario for an hour.

#20 I was talking about gameplay though Anguel. You can't just pick up project gotham and do well, it takes a lot of hours of practice to be good enough to get the Kudo's and a lot of skill. And the emulators just work. I am very big on the feel of gameplay, just not the same kinds of games. For me a good game flows had good controls and changes in a way that keeps you interested. In a racing game its the competing and getting the car to do what you want on the edge. There are a lot of different kinds of games and everyone has different tastes. I never played a mario game or sonic game till a couple of years ago and grew up on entirely different games.

The first to blow me away Was Elite as a teenager in the early/mid 80's I spent months playing that game and ended up creating a D&D like paper and pencil version with my friends. Other computer games like Jeff Crammonds stunt car racer, and Formula One, Wings by lucas arts, monkey island, Elvira mistress of the dark (which was actually a very good game (believe it or not). Starglider series, Settlers 2 (awesome split screen multiplayer with dual mice). But I never got into console games till they got more depth to their gameplay and became more like PC games.

For some reason Nintendo games just do nothing for me whatsoever, neither did the GTA series which seemed incredibly repetitive and worthless. Which is strange as in some ways it isn't that far removed from KOTOR I suppose, appart from lacking in depth.

I think Jeremy is probably right, It's not really that I think Nintendo games are kid games or anything, I just don't get immersed in them at all and I don't have any nostalgia or empathy for the characters that some people have grown up with and hold pretty dear by the sounds of things. When I pick up a Nintendo game I don't really get that feeling of gameplay, I get more of a, thats kind of cool, but it doesn't last and the experience is very forgetable and doesn't draw me in. So if I put it down I'm not inclined to come back and play again. Same thing with Sega, I bought a Dreamcast which was my first ever console, but the only games I enjoyed were Virtua Tennis and the ferrari Sim game.