What have been your biggest challenges so far?
by Matthew Langley · in Torque Game Builder · 04/14/2005 (10:52 am) · 117 replies
NOTE: This is meant to be a Indie Game Developer support type thread... vent your time limitations, tough day job, that darn code algorithm that comes out funky, etc etc... Not a T2D/GG bashing thread... just a forewarning that if you don't have something either to discuss friendly and supportive, or constructively, then just don't post it.
Well since the forums have been awkwardly quiet this morning figured I'd throw up a discussion thread asking the question
What have been your biggest challenges so far?
*dramatic pause*
(EDIT: for those that are having problems starting with T2D and torquescript, make sure you check through all of the documentation listed in the Documentation Overview.html)
lol ok, so just out of curiosity what have been everyones challenges... note this can be anything from working with T2D, learning T2D, working with the editors... trying to get a game concept written out, game design, documentation... debugging... etc etc... not specific on T2D but your whole game development process...
for me it has been getting started on some of the major systems... I finally did a good high level list of what I need to develop and actually getting started on a brand new system is overwhelming at first...
like inventory, AI, Pathfinding, Classes, Levels, Quests, etc etc etc...
it goes on... so its hard to keep focuses on one step at a time...
As a team its been hard trying to coordinate our work to ensure the best progress... as well as motivation... at this point the motivation burns out easily when we all go home and really need to clamp down and work...
Well since the forums have been awkwardly quiet this morning figured I'd throw up a discussion thread asking the question
What have been your biggest challenges so far?
*dramatic pause*
(EDIT: for those that are having problems starting with T2D and torquescript, make sure you check through all of the documentation listed in the Documentation Overview.html)
lol ok, so just out of curiosity what have been everyones challenges... note this can be anything from working with T2D, learning T2D, working with the editors... trying to get a game concept written out, game design, documentation... debugging... etc etc... not specific on T2D but your whole game development process...
for me it has been getting started on some of the major systems... I finally did a good high level list of what I need to develop and actually getting started on a brand new system is overwhelming at first...
like inventory, AI, Pathfinding, Classes, Levels, Quests, etc etc etc...
it goes on... so its hard to keep focuses on one step at a time...
As a team its been hard trying to coordinate our work to ensure the best progress... as well as motivation... at this point the motivation burns out easily when we all go home and really need to clamp down and work...
About the author
Was a GG Associate and then joined GG in 2005. Lead tool dev for T2D and T3D. In 2011 joined mobile company ngmoco/DeNA and spent about 4 years working game and server tech. 2014 joined startup Merigo Games developing server technology.
#2
I'll be baack! lol:) -as in Arnold Schwarzanegger's Terminator series(did I spell that correctly?)
04/14/2005 (11:02 am)
Just to add a little spark of extra life on the unusually quiet forums-Until now I really haven't had much of a chance to work with T2D to discover any potential challenges, but beginning next week should be a completely different story!:) I'm in for a lot more time on my hands beginning next week!:) Looking very forward to that!:)I'll be baack! lol:) -as in Arnold Schwarzanegger's Terminator series(did I spell that correctly?)
#3
But a close problem is probably the editors. Honestly, I haven't tried them much. I have a horrific allergy to GUI based development tools. Fortunately with my first T2D project I can avoid the editors until I'm almost finished. Maybe by then, GG will have them reduced to a simple three button wizard ;)
04/14/2005 (11:12 am)
That's easy - trying to get a new c++ class to compile after having not even poked at the language in about eight years (and then it was only about a month long stint of working with NSAPI filters for IIS) ...But a close problem is probably the editors. Honestly, I haven't tried them much. I have a horrific allergy to GUI based development tools. Fortunately with my first T2D project I can avoid the editors until I'm almost finished. Maybe by then, GG will have them reduced to a simple three button wizard ;)
#4
I know it is an EA, and so I'm taking it all in stride, but it is definately hampering progress. Even the TGE docs that go over scripting aren't exactly complete, and actually FINDING what I need to know is very time consuming. (And the Search on this site sucks, to be blunt). Anyhow, mix those all together and finding what I need to accomlish what I'm trying to do has been sucking up more time than anything else.
Now, once I DO find what I need, its been great. Implementing the things I have so far has taken very little time, and removed all of the headache and months of work I would have had to spend just getting things like a basic window and images displaying.
I can imagine once I've learned a bit more and understand it better, and once some better docs that are actually written up as an organized reference (preferably with sample code snippets *HINT *HINT*) I'll be turning out games in no time...
04/14/2005 (11:12 am)
I've been overwhelmed with trying to learn a new scripting language that is rather poorly documented right now. I'm sure its been much easier for those of you that have worked with TGE for a while, and are familiar with with most of the syntax and structures, but being fresh to both, and trying to jump right into T2D has been a bit frustrating.I know it is an EA, and so I'm taking it all in stride, but it is definately hampering progress. Even the TGE docs that go over scripting aren't exactly complete, and actually FINDING what I need to know is very time consuming. (And the Search on this site sucks, to be blunt). Anyhow, mix those all together and finding what I need to accomlish what I'm trying to do has been sucking up more time than anything else.
Now, once I DO find what I need, its been great. Implementing the things I have so far has taken very little time, and removed all of the headache and months of work I would have had to spend just getting things like a basic window and images displaying.
I can imagine once I've learned a bit more and understand it better, and once some better docs that are actually written up as an organized reference (preferably with sample code snippets *HINT *HINT*) I'll be turning out games in no time...
#5
It's the kind of block where you begin to seriously doubt yourself and your abilities. It's made worse by the fact that I'm now working at home (alone) and there's no direct communication to get the ideas flowing. Just 8-10 long hours a day spent sitting in front of my drawing table and a few blank sheets of paper.
Not to sound too depressed :P
04/14/2005 (11:22 am)
I think for me it's getting out of the slump I've been stuck in. For the past two weeks it's been a total creative block, not only with game design, but with the illustration projects I've had as well. It's the kind of block where you begin to seriously doubt yourself and your abilities. It's made worse by the fact that I'm now working at home (alone) and there's no direct communication to get the ideas flowing. Just 8-10 long hours a day spent sitting in front of my drawing table and a few blank sheets of paper.
Not to sound too depressed :P
#6
Not sure what I'd suggest for them until the wiki is ready. I feel awful newbish asking specifically for "what method does X", but it be interesting if there was a forum cat just for TScript code sample requests/answers.
04/14/2005 (11:23 am)
I've had the same experience, Barry. I'm glad to know that they'll be making a wiki available. Forums are never an efficient method, even powerful ones, as they lack any kind of category or relation linking and you're just stuck guessing keywords.Not sure what I'd suggest for them until the wiki is ready. I feel awful newbish asking specifically for "what method does X", but it be interesting if there was a forum cat just for TScript code sample requests/answers.
#7
04/14/2005 (11:30 am)
Chris, I know the feeling. I've been pretty blocked creatively for these last 2-3 weeks myself, and been pretty busy with other things in real life, too, making gamedev a little more backburner than I'd like. Get out, go to the park, sketch stuff. At the very least you'll keep the artist alive, and at best you'll kickstart the creative juices again :)
#8
@Joshua: I know what you mean... feel free to ask any of those questions in the Torque Script forum under the T2D forums, don't feel bad, the more questions the better, T2D has only been out what 2-3 months, so in a way we are all newbs
04/14/2005 (11:32 am)
Ouch Chris... hop on the Garage Games IRC channel! :) I'm on at night sometimes... also you can start discussions in here if you want, I check the boards all day long@Joshua: I know what you mean... feel free to ask any of those questions in the Torque Script forum under the T2D forums, don't feel bad, the more questions the better, T2D has only been out what 2-3 months, so in a way we are all newbs
#9
1. write a code block
2. run T2D
3. check console window
4. start game loop
5. check console window
6. Dear God, why doesn't this work??
7. Stop T2D
8. double check code block
9. look at every object for correct spelling / syntax
10. Doh! left out the $ (or the %)
11. Stop T2D
12. fix error
13. run T2D
14. check console window
15. start game loop
16. check console window
17. Dear God, why doesn't this work??
18. FORGOT TO SAVE CHANGE, YOU FRIGGIN IDIOT!!
19. Stop T2D
20. save changes
21. run T2D
22. check console window
23. start game loop
24. It works!! YAY!!!!
25. Add another code block
26 wash, rinse, repeat
04/14/2005 (11:45 am)
Debugging....1. write a code block
2. run T2D
3. check console window
4. start game loop
5. check console window
6. Dear God, why doesn't this work??
7. Stop T2D
8. double check code block
9. look at every object for correct spelling / syntax
10. Doh! left out the $ (or the %)
11. Stop T2D
12. fix error
13. run T2D
14. check console window
15. start game loop
16. check console window
17. Dear God, why doesn't this work??
18. FORGOT TO SAVE CHANGE, YOU FRIGGIN IDIOT!!
19. Stop T2D
20. save changes
21. run T2D
22. check console window
23. start game loop
24. It works!! YAY!!!!
25. Add another code block
26 wash, rinse, repeat
#10
04/14/2005 (11:57 am)
@Kevin: lol lol sounds alot like what happens to me!:)
#11
Ok, more seriously, probably figuring out the maze of how the scripts all work together is what I've been chewing on lately. That, and tweaking physics to get the desired effects which isn't so much a struggle as just very time consuming.
I agree about the debugging. If you misspell a variable, there's no complaint from the engine--you just get a slient bug!! This is very bad.
04/14/2005 (11:58 am)
My biggest challenge is waiting for those juicy updates we've been promised!! :POk, more seriously, probably figuring out the maze of how the scripts all work together is what I've been chewing on lately. That, and tweaking physics to get the desired effects which isn't so much a struggle as just very time consuming.
I agree about the debugging. If you misspell a variable, there's no complaint from the engine--you just get a slient bug!! This is very bad.
#12
04/14/2005 (12:03 pm)
My biggest challenge atm is getting nice, professional grade artwork, for my various concepts.
#13
04/14/2005 (12:07 pm)
Does anyone remember the setting/pref to allow for notification of using a TGEScript variable before it's initialized? I've not used it so can't track it down in my projects.
#14
04/14/2005 (12:10 pm)
@Kevin: It will sound totally bizarre, but I found myself debugging faster just by binding a key for quit(). I know, it's just a couple keystrokes in the console - but now I can tilde, scroll, tilde, q and then debug.
#15
sometimes, those pesky bugs will cause chaos on the screen and the mouse is useless, leaving me with the "3-finger-solute" as the only way to kill it. Binding 'q' will work so much better in that situation too! why didn't I think of that?
04/14/2005 (12:16 pm)
@Joshua: That is an excellent idea! Thanks!sometimes, those pesky bugs will cause chaos on the screen and the mouse is useless, leaving me with the "3-finger-solute" as the only way to kill it. Binding 'q' will work so much better in that situation too! why didn't I think of that?
#16
04/14/2005 (12:16 pm)
Aye, a quit key was one thing that sped up my debugging process by a surprising amount.
#17
04/14/2005 (12:40 pm)
Motivation: Getting off my butt that's usually 1) watching TV, 2) watching movies, 3) playing World of Warcraft, and no matter which of the 3, drinking ;^) I'm sooo lazy (actually, on another board I read, a thread was started on how to overcome laziness...)
#18
04/14/2005 (12:41 pm)
Alt + F4 will quit 
#19
04/14/2005 (12:49 pm)
Having time =p
#20
04/14/2005 (1:29 pm)
Alt-F4 is one key too many. :-p I use "q". It's about as close to where my fingers normally are (wasd) as it gets. 
Torque 3D Owner Matthew Langley
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