Censorship in Illinois

#41 I personally believe that there isn't enough sex drugs and violence in games as it is. To hell with censorship. I hope the next GTA game is 30 times more graphic than the last one.

The way kids blame their behavior on a game they played or a movie they watched is total and complete bullshit. You want to know why they blame the media? Because they know its going to take the heat off of their actions. If a kid shoots up his school there should be no evaluation of the music he listens to or the games he's played. He should immediately be branded a threat to society and either locked away forever or killed.

My point is I don't think videogames have anything to do the morality of a kids actions. A kid knows what he's doing when he's playing a game is nothing like killing people in real life. Videogames have become a scapegoat for kids to do awful crap and get away with it and I personally think its sick. I guess some people don't have the mental capacity to comprehend what sticking a knife in another person might entail but videogames aren't the problem. If a kid is showing violent tendencies than its likely due to emotional instability and usually can be identified long before a kid picks up his first videogame.

Chances are if you bring your kid up in a loving environment and take the time to explain that a videogame is a fictitious form of entertainment, they will make it out of their childhood without a criminal record.

Oh and also to all the parents out there, if your going to keep a gun in the house make sure its in a safe place where your child wont have access to it. Investing in a safe is probably a smart idea. Its probably not a good idea to let your child watch the evening news either as its likely show images worse than any game developer could create.

#42 This reminds me of the jazz debate in the 1920's. With the advent of radio and recordings, night club jazz spread across the country. On one side of the debate regarding the (im)morality of black music was that because this music was born out of night clubs where men and women danced lasciviously, and the detrimental effects of blue notes gradually corrupted their minds (really! I have a copy of an old editorial that says just that-- syncopation and blue notes are evil!). The other side of the argument was that jazz merely spoke to the present culture which was slowly bringing sex, drugs, and alcohol into daylight. Most popular music does that-- speak to present culture-- especially, for some reason, that music which grows out of black culture.

likewise, video games reflect our tastes, they don't create them. A twisted mind can find plenty of art, literature (including scripture) and music that reflects and, no doubt, helps shape a twisted attitude. I'm not entirely sure how many kinds of circumstances cause a problem, but no doubt one risk factor would be absent parenting.

We are a violent society in many ways and this violence is present in our TV media, news, conversation/debate/rhetoric, and our presence on the world stage. Is it a surprise that we can find plenty of violence in all our entertainments?

Honestly, I don't mind that legislators require labelling of entertainment content to help parents make decisions and to prevent kids from circumventing parents' authority by sneaking a purchase at the video store. It seems to me that this put more control in the parents' hands if they want it. It also sends a message to kids that the contents of the entertainment media rated for adults depict activity that is in some sense dangerous. It isn't a strong message, to be sure, because it is overpowered by the other message, that the contents are probably REALLY interesting, but at least the kid gets the first message.

Nick

#43 I have never heard of a pornographic video game......thank god.

#44 I don't see anything wrong with the ban. It's been a law here in California for years now and it makes sense to me. Just be happy they aren't trying to ban games all together to old and young like some countries do. But on the other hand, I remember playing Mortal Kombat when I was 14 and I have yet to kill or harm anyone to this day. If people are crazy then THEY are crazy and there is nothing to blame for THEM shooting up a school but THEM. They are weak and unstable people on their own merits and no game, movie, or song lyrics is the cause of that.
-Ajari-

Also, don't you guys in Illinois use the ESRB ratings system like everybody else?

#45 @Ajari
Yes we do

#46 @Ajari: yes, they may be weak, but who do you think is there to pressure and influence them when they're weak?

Ok, maybe we shouldn't blame it all on the media. Maybe it is the parents' fault too (which I agree). But don't you think we could solve a part of the problem by at least trying to see if this bill has any effect, at all? If teen violence still goes on, ok, then maybe this bill isn't working, but what if teen violence drops? Isn't the potential to avoid the loss of more lives worth not allowing minors to buy* games of this nature?


*A part from the introduction of the bill:

Quote:
Provides that a family member's purchase of a violent video game for another family member who is a minor does not constitute a violation of this provision.

From what I understand (tell me if i'm reading this wrong), family members can still buy violent/sexually oriented video games for their children

#47

Quote:Pornography has been in this situation for years upon years, and the government hasn't flipped out and banned it altogether yet.

Government officials and politician are more likely to watch pornography than play computer games.

#48 I think the whole matter is mostly a matter of education. I have seen my nephew play GTA San Andrea and he is 10. I was first in shock by the violence (he find fun running around with a chainsaw mowing down pedestrian) but by discussing with him I could see he had seen that as a game not reality. Education to the children is more likely making all the difference.

But my brother now take more care to control what kind of game the kid is buying. He never cared about that before, but since I pointed to him that certain games are not really for young audience he his having an eye on it. For him a game was a game, just kid stuff, I just wonder if parents are in majority just taking the same approach, simply because they are not aware of the problem.

#49 @ bryce there have been pornographic or "adult only videogames" they haven't sold too well but they're out there.

The problem is that politicians do not fully understand vidoegames. They are completely disconected from the subject matter and they dont understand that every game is not for kids. Back to our rating system it clearly defines what contents are appropriate to each group. The movies are just now starting to do this. but the fact remains its not the government's right to police what comes into a user's home. Besides most of the children playing these games aren't even buying them. The parents are. So the bill does not 'protect' children from the games if their parents still buy them.

@ joseph a weak minded individual is liable to be persauded by anything. This country is really good at placing the blame on others. Its mcdonald's fault for me being fat. its rap's fault for my son joining a gang. And now its video games' fault for america's downfall.

Videogames is a new art form and therefore is still weak. politicians like to fight causes they think they can win. I.E. Weak ones. For all you that think this legislation is a good idea. consider this, if it passes then whats to stop them from saying this game can't be played or this. itd be like new zealand and then what kind of jobs would we have? So unless they're going to start regulating all entertainment tghe government needs to leave us alone. So stand up for yourselves rolling over now will only cause more problems in the future.

#50 @Marvin (i think you were referring to me...)

McDonald's, rap, video games, whatever. They don't force anyone to go to a downfall. They provide the option. I read an article somewhere (i'll post it later) that the military uses simulations that are like video games to train soldiers to not hesistate before they shoot or something (i'm not sure that's entirely correct...i'll reread the article once I find it, but in the meantime, someone please tell me if I have the facts wrong).

As to the legislation, it's there because the people made it there. Without us, things can't pass. Which is why staying in school is important (=D). Like Mario said in the beginning of hte topic, we can do something if it comes to that point.

#51 The maing problem is that the best video games are violent, (Halo, Doom, CS, Half Life.) Mario (the video game one) and Link are awesome but it requires a really good crew to make those fun. While I was reading this thread I thought about it for a while. It may be some of our hunter instinct comeing in. since we don't normally shoot people in our average lives (I hope) we need to get our anger out by pumping the covenant full of lead.

#52 Games should be exaclty like going to the movies, and contolled by age and rating. Under 17? No "R" movie for you. Under 18? No "M" rated game for you.

No one can complain about that, and parents will stop complaining that the Gov doesn't raise thier kids for them.

#53 Video games alerady have ratings, they just are not enforced. The government is great at making laws and not enforcing them.

#54 @Brian

The current ratings system wasn't established by the government - it's a voluntary system put in place by the industry. The whole reason they want to pass this legislation is so they'll have a law to enforce!

#55 I say it's the parents responsability. I'd probably let my kid watch (supervised) violence as long as he/she knows it's bad and/or not real. I would hate to see a 35 year old man puking his guts out in a horror movie because his parents "shelled" him from it his entire life, and he isn't sensatized to fake gore. This is the real world, not happy smurf and rainbow bright land. Theres good and bad, peace and violence in this world. Everybody has to go through both sides in their lives. I'd rather have my children expossed to it early and taught the correct way to handel it then to have them stumble apon it with no supervision and do something crazy because it's a new facination to watch someone get hurt because noone ever told him it's wrong. I know I have run on sentences and probably bad spelling but I'm tired. Leave me alone...I'm going to sleep.... :p
-Ajari-

#56 @Ajari Exactly! That's what this bill is doing (or so i understand...) It's basically saying that kids cannot buy violent/sexual oriented video games. They can still play it, but at least a parent knows what his or her kids are doing.

lol nighty night=D

#57 Well, if it's the violent media causing kids to commit these crimes, why aren't we putting a stop to the news media, television, hollywood, radio, all forms of new music, and many of the old ones, and the United States military who hands out propaganda in the public schools. All of these forms of media are
mostly violent in nature and our reducing the frontal lobe activity of the children. Run to your nearest gun store and put a stop to these offenders of common morality.

#58 I've only scanned the first few posts, so someone might've already said this.

Those who suggest "first this, next it's a ban on this too," are arguing from a logically flawed position (known as the "slippery slope" argument).

edit1:

(Paraphrasing):

Quote:When are people going to stop blaming this or that, people killed people before video games.

Now, I'm not a radical environmentalist (like probably the majority of public discourse in the USA), so don't get me wrong, but the issue isn't whether or not people killed people before the advent of video games. The issue is whether violent entertainment influences impressionable, developing minds toward violent behavior. That is, does violent entertainment have a negative social impact? I think the intuitive answer is clearly "yes," and so I think studies are in order. I've not read any such studies (and I recognize that many if not most such studies are probably tainted by prejudice), so I won't comment further on that.

I'm certainly not a Leftist. I'm totally opposed to gun control for a variety of reasons, but you won't catch me suggesting that guns don't make murder easier and therefore possibly more common.

edit 2:

Quote:@ joseph a weak minded individual is liable to be persauded by anything. This country is really good at placing the blame on others. Its mcdonald's fault for me being fat. its rap's fault for my son joining a gang. And now its video games' fault for america's downfall.

I think the hullabaloo over McDonalds (excluding that movie, I'm talking about the lawsuit) was that McDonalds was using the word "nutritious" to characterize their food. I think they should be sued for that, because it's clearly false advertising. The vast majority of their food is junk food.

My point is that personal responsibility is only one factor here. If personal responsibility was the only metric, then why not allow private citizens to construct hydrogen bombs? After all, simply owning one doesn't make one more violent, right? The greater public good will and should always be a factor.

#59 @Midhir: I think you misunderstand the topic being debated. Yes, it would be nice if all that stuff you said was "banned", but that's simply not gonna happen because too many people like it (myself included). Like I tried to emphasize, it's only disallowing minors to BUY. They can still play if their parents buy it for them. This solves both the parenting issue and the media issue.

#60 Edit 3:

Quote:I agree that many things including video games and movies affect a child's behavior. That is why games and movies have ratings on them as it is. It is up to parents to know what theirs kids are doing and curb usage of games that may be inappropriate. Too many people use TV and Video Games as babysitters for young children these days. I know several parents like that.

No, games and movies have ratings on them so that the respective industries will be perceived as making a good faith effort to rate games, thus avoiding government intervention. The industries themselves probably (in general) rank the resultant impact on child behavior rather low on their lists of priorities.

Quote:I've heard similiar arguments regarding pornography- that it will lead to deviations and increasing number of sexual crimes. Sure, you will find cruel deviants reading hardcore porn and commiting crimes but does it proove porn is a cause of their actions ? Statistics show that it actually works exactly oposite- in countries with free acces to that kind of materials number of sexual crimes is much lower then in restrictive ones.

The statistics show no arrow of causation. It's likely that societies less prone to sex crimes enact less stringent pornography laws, and vice-versa.

Quote:This reminds me of the jazz debate in the 1920's. With the advent of radio and recordings, night club jazz spread across the country. On one side of the debate regarding the (im)morality of black music was that because this music was born out of night clubs where men and women danced lasciviously, and the detrimental effects of blue notes gradually corrupted their minds (really! I have a copy of an old editorial that says just that-- syncopation and blue notes are evil!). The other side of the argument was that jazz merely spoke to the present culture which was slowly bringing sex, drugs, and alcohol into daylight. Most popular music does that-- speak to present culture-- especially, for some reason, that music which grows out of black culture.

I don't really see how this is germane since you seem to be assuming that we agree with you based on some preexisting belief system that may or may not in fact preexist.

I have a nephew, and I see how jacked up he gets during and after playing Tekken (which is has a rather disgusting depiction of women imo).

Personally, I think wise parents will allow no (as in none, ZERO, zilch, nada) television or videogames* until a certain age (12?), then strictly vet what games they do play after that age and prior to a certain level of maturity (16 or so). Kids are busy learning about reality, that's their main job in life, there's no need for them to go learning about virtual realities at the same time.

* by no television I mean no network/cable, just vetted DVDs/VHS, and by no games I mean no severe games - stuff like Tetris and Chess is okay.

edit 4:
I reread my post and figured I should expand a bit. I regard the entertainment industry (television, film, music, and games) as essentially an open sewer vis-a-vis children. It is simply evil. I also hold public education in similar esteem. I think the foremost goal of any parent is to insulate their children from this open sewer until they are most of the way matured. Then, having the tools of life formed, they can be exposed to these things (or rather, able to make their own decisions about these things).

I find the vast majority of parents complicit in poisoning their childrens' minds and inexplicably ignorant, unfazed, or resigned about the matter.

For the record, I'm an agnostic and this has nothing to do with religion.