Indie

#1 Budget games!

When I'm bored and have beaten my latest AAA+ title and can't afford to fork over another $50 but want something to keep me entertained you know what I do? I start looking at price tags. Whats this a freaky sci-fi WWII FPS thats weird...hey it's only $15. It's a guilt free game. If it sucks I'm not out much, and if it keeps me entertained for more than about an hour I got my money's worth (movies are $20 for n hour and a half).
Yet I may like it so much even though it's not AAA+ you can bet I will then start looking for other games they have made.

Now my point being if I hopped on here and said I was going to make an alien shoot'em up that played like Halo with vehicles, aliens, etc. Using Torque with a different plot, and characters, enemies weapons. I doubt any of you would be saying "Hey that sounds like a great idea!"

But why not? I could make it for PC, Mac, and Linux. Slap a budget price on it of $15-20 bucks, and I bet it would sell. Why though if it's a Halo clone with not as good graphics or voice acting? Because it would run on 2 systems that don't really see a lot of new games, and would run on older systems that can't run Halo. Or it might be that 14 year old shopping arond who just made $25 cutting grass and wants a cool new game but can't afford Halo. Or some bored gamer like me who is just looking for a cheap game I can buy guilt free that will keep me entertained.

My point being that as Indies we overly limit ourselves in all of our creative freedom when we don't have too. I mean I like FPS why on earth wouldn't I want to make one? As a long time FPS fan I think I know what one needs to make it fun, and interesting.

Fact is no matter what if you build a solid and fun game no matter what genre it is it will sell. Not like Halo or Half-Life (unless your lucky, or awesome) but it will sell. Which = money which = better tools, and reptation = better games, and more talented people who want to work with you.

I guess the biggest point I'm trying to make is there is a reason every big game company has a little offshoot budget team doing budget games for budget gamers. There is no reason Indie's cannot meet them head on in that market.

I've seen a lot of idea's get shot down before. I'm not talking about the "I want to make a MMO." types ideas where the follow up question will be "What program do I need to put models in Torque?"

Truth is all of your big companies now were once little guys too who made fun games they enjoyed to play, and thats what got them where they are now. However I doubt they ever said "We're just little guys so we have to act like little guys."

I mean when Quake came out it was a smash, and every other game company out there suddenly wanted their hands on the Quake engine. Yet id would only sell them the Doom engine and did that stop them? Nope. Their games were different, fun, and did well.

We're at a point now where no one company is holding the ace. Torque is an awesome engine definitely AAA+ not was but is. I've bought games recently that could easily be made with Torque. Fact is Fun interesting games are fun and interesting games. If your desire is to make a WWII shooter regardless of how many have been made then go for it! If it's fun, interesting, and allows people to blast lots of other people online there is no reason it won't go out the door.

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#2 In fact look at Halo. There was nothing really spectacular feature wise about that game. It was just really really fun. It made you chuckle, it made you grind your teeth, it glued you to the TV for hours on end. Your weren't staring at the pretty tree's or waterfalls. Sure they were nice. Your were blasting aliens, driving warthogs, and dying to see what the outcome of it all was.

Anyway this got much longer than I originally had planned but I hope my point got across. Hopefully I've shed some light into the darkness for some, or at least put things in a perspective they had overlooked.

I love innovation but theres nothing wrong about making more of what you enjoy playing.

And sorry this took 3 posts to get it all out.

#3 I'll try to keep this as brief and coherent as I possibly can, considering the length of this 'post'.

The reason many indies take stances against the big companies is because they are taking less risks with games. With next-generation consoles, we are seeing the budget for teams billow out into the double million figures, and the big companies are only set to become more rigid.

This makes it even harder for potential game designers to create and market the games they truly want to make. What options do we have?

The only real choice has been to create our own options, and that is harder than it sounds. You have to convince consumers that indie games are a viable option, and that is something indies are in the process of doing.

Part of this education is letting people know that there *is* something wrong with the state of games. It might start with ranting, but slowly it begins to turn into action. With enough time, momentum can build up to the point where enough people are looking for alternative options for their games.

So true, there is nothing wrong with creating games that appeal to a mainstream audience, but if you want to succeed as an indie, then you are going to have to differentiate yourself somehow, whether it be in terms of your gameplay, or in terms of the greater politics of the market.

Anyhow, good thread. It's good to get people thinking about these kinds of issues.

Cheers,
Paul.

#4 In response to Paul's comment, Can you really blame them for taking less risk with the games they sign on? I mean every other industry does it, choosing a certain type of product to put into your product over another one because it's what people want, choosing a certain employee to hire over another one because he can make what people want.

#5 Well th eoriginal posters logic is sound I have to interject why it gets over-ridden by so many people.

Alot of indie folks (myself included) aren't in it for the money.. We are in it for that defining moment. That moment that we put our product out there and say "see I told you this would work."

There.. I had my say ;)

Mark

#6 Okay if i may add my two cents,

oh darn left my wallet (rimshot) Zen although you wrote a mini manifesto, your point is valid, if a little confusing. publishers make those games becuase thats what sales have reflected gamers to want. But as an indie you can make those games but you gotta do something different otherwise the big dogs will crush you. So if you wanna make a halo esque shooter for a budget price thats a good start... but you're gonna have to do something halo doesnt or your 'if you build it they will come' philosphy won't work

#7 It's missing the point that it is really hard for an indie to get a distributor to carry your game, and can be a very costly exercise. And getting the disties to carry your game is not the end of the battle, you then have to get the stores to order it too, and the disties rely on you to do the pr for the game....... And not all disties are equal, if you really want good coverage, you will have to fight with the big ones, and of course the big publishers are going to get preferential treatment even if you do get the distie to carry your game.

In other words, getting into the retail chain is a real pain that can cost you some serious pocket money, not to mention grief.

You could try getting the indie retailers to carry your game by approaching them directly, but they will want it on sale or return, so its still going to cost you up front to produce the packaged games, and then you have the hassle of chasing them for your money........ I know, I have been at that end, if cash is tight, you pay those with the biggest sticks and you cant risk laying out money upfront unless you know its going to sell. And good luck to you if you want to approach the big retailers to carry your game, you will need it.

I can only take my hat off to the indies who tackle this kind of thing.

I may be off on a tangent here, but its something I have been considering lately, maybe the guys behind lore or another can shed a bit of light on this?

#8 True getting your game on the shelves is not an easy task to accomplish. Yet the getting people to accept "Indie's" doesn't make since to me. If my game box says "On Target Productions" how do they know if it was made in my garage or some huge studio?

Also I think the best way to get retailers interested in your game is to get people interested in your game. If the gamers want it the stores will carry it. This can be done by demo's, word of mouth, and by giving your demo's to review sites which will give hard core reviews of your upcoming game and allow gamers to read the reviews.

If the game is good, and you cover all your bases it can be done. It's not easy but neither is creating a game. No point in not going the extra mile to get it out the door.

Plus I can't understand anyone who would dedicate a year or two of their lives making a great game, and expect no reward other than ot be given credit for a great game. I like my credit in the form of cash because I like to eat things other than Ramen noodle.

#9 Shelf-space in stores like EB or Walmart or GameStop isn't cheap, and word of mouth doesn't help unless you have some money (or a distributor/publisher willing to put up the cash). Shelf-space is limited, and simple word of mouth won't get it there. It will help get a contract with a publisher or distributor for shelf distribution, but it will not get your game on a shelf without a cashflow transfer.

#10 @Sam: No I don't blame the studios, as you said, that kind of consolidation happens in every industry in some form or another - it's the reality of business. However, that doesn't mean I or anyone else has to like it.

It certainly doesn't mean things can't change, either. While distribution does play a big part, it's more about consumer education and marketing. There's no reason that an innovative title can't sell well, you just have to be innovative about your marketing as well, and people need to begin equating indie with quality.

Is that easy? Hell no. But someone will think of a way of getting their game out to the masses, and when they do, watch everyone follow.

Cheers,
Paul.

#11 I think the real truth out there lies somewhere within the robots.

I like robots.