Scripting for noobs?
by Jeff Highsmith · in Torque Game Engine · 03/26/2005 (1:50 pm) · 8 replies
Is there a guide to Torque scripting that assumes no previous knowledge of programming?
Something like this:
http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/lesson1.html
I need to start learning C++ eventually, so it's no biggie if there isn't, but I'd like to ease into some of the concepts of programming in a fun fashion if possible (i.e., learn by making Torque scripts rather than the typically dull programming examples).
Alternatively, does anyone know a C++ learning site devoted to game devs?
Something like this:
http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/lesson1.html
I need to start learning C++ eventually, so it's no biggie if there isn't, but I'd like to ease into some of the concepts of programming in a fun fashion if possible (i.e., learn by making Torque scripts rather than the typically dull programming examples).
Alternatively, does anyone know a C++ learning site devoted to game devs?
About the author
#2
As for literacy; you are stereotyping i'm afraid. More than that I think you are simply seeing the rapid decline of literacy in our county amogst a certain age group. Public education in the US is quite honestly in shambles and i'd venture to say that the AVERAGE High School graduate reads and writes at a comprehension level about half of what they did just 10 years ago. The majority of the tutorials you are probably running into are written by this group of people.
Of course, now i'll probably be flamed to hell along with you Jeff but oh well. I put my foot down on this issue whenever I get the chance because I truely am afraid at the direction education in the US is taking.
Of course on a tangent, you also have to realize that a growing number of things you read on the web are written by those for whom English is a secondary language. To those people I say "Hats off!" as it were because no matter how bad they butcher the English language, I know they speak English better than I would speak French or Spanish or what have you.
03/26/2005 (3:57 pm)
I can't really go into any detail right now, especially since nothing is even remotely concrete at this point in time, but I am in the process of putting together something like what you are looking for.As for literacy; you are stereotyping i'm afraid. More than that I think you are simply seeing the rapid decline of literacy in our county amogst a certain age group. Public education in the US is quite honestly in shambles and i'd venture to say that the AVERAGE High School graduate reads and writes at a comprehension level about half of what they did just 10 years ago. The majority of the tutorials you are probably running into are written by this group of people.
Of course, now i'll probably be flamed to hell along with you Jeff but oh well. I put my foot down on this issue whenever I get the chance because I truely am afraid at the direction education in the US is taking.
Of course on a tangent, you also have to realize that a growing number of things you read on the web are written by those for whom English is a secondary language. To those people I say "Hats off!" as it were because no matter how bad they butcher the English language, I know they speak English better than I would speak French or Spanish or what have you.
#3
I now have a domain, hosting and a suitable script to power the site. The next stage is to decide what content to include and how to organise it.
As for illiteracy, it doesn't appear to be restricted to programmers. You can see examples of poor grammar and spelling on almost every forum and in many online references on any topic.
03/26/2005 (5:42 pm)
I am also in the process of planning a Torque site if either of you would like to offer suggestions or pool resources.I now have a domain, hosting and a suitable script to power the site. The next stage is to decide what content to include and how to organise it.
As for illiteracy, it doesn't appear to be restricted to programmers. You can see examples of poor grammar and spelling on almost every forum and in many online references on any topic.
#4
You're right of course, I'd thought of that and I should've mentioned it. You put it much the same way I do when non-native Anglophones apologize for their English: "your English is much better than my X."
Regarding declining literacy, you're right that it's continually degrading. Still, one would think that the requirements of something as challenging as programming would weed out semi-literates. Maybe that should've been included in my initial post; how is it that programmers seem at least as illiterate as the general public, when clearly they aren't the general public? (again, I mean no offense. Innumeracy is as regrettable as illiteracy, and I'm only semi-numerate).
Wysardry:
It's late now so I'll wait 'til tomorrow to check out your site, but I have one suggestion now: a wiki. A Torque Script wiki would make it easy for the community to dink and dunk away at improving the content.
You are of course correct that illiteracy is by no means restricted to programmers, and that wasn't the idea I wanted to express. I hope my comments above clarified my question.
03/26/2005 (11:09 pm)
"Of course on a tangent, you also have to realize that a growing number of things you read on the web are written by those for whom English is a secondary language. To those people I say "Hats off!" as it were because no matter how bad they butcher the English language, I know they speak English better than I would speak French or Spanish or what have you."You're right of course, I'd thought of that and I should've mentioned it. You put it much the same way I do when non-native Anglophones apologize for their English: "your English is much better than my X."
Regarding declining literacy, you're right that it's continually degrading. Still, one would think that the requirements of something as challenging as programming would weed out semi-literates. Maybe that should've been included in my initial post; how is it that programmers seem at least as illiterate as the general public, when clearly they aren't the general public? (again, I mean no offense. Innumeracy is as regrettable as illiteracy, and I'm only semi-numerate).
Wysardry:
It's late now so I'll wait 'til tomorrow to check out your site, but I have one suggestion now: a wiki. A Torque Script wiki would make it easy for the community to dink and dunk away at improving the content.
You are of course correct that illiteracy is by no means restricted to programmers, and that wasn't the idea I wanted to express. I hope my comments above clarified my question.
#5
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/pt03.php
Is this what your looking for?
(BTW: the comment of old-english, if your refering to spelling, some of us have carpol tunnel.)
03/26/2005 (11:23 pm)
Call me semi-literate! Dude thats mean! You hurt my feelings i'm gonna go cry now!(kidding)http://www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/pt03.php
Is this what your looking for?
(BTW: the comment of old-english, if your refering to spelling, some of us have carpol tunnel.)
#6
Programming languages tend not to have that many keywords (they have a small vocabulary), and the compiler/interpreter will pick up on any that are mispelled. The rules of syntax (grammar) are also much more informal and flexible than in a natural language such as English.
It might possibly improve keyboard skills, as mistyped variable names can be hard to spot (so getting them right first time saves a lot of work).
As for my site, it isn't ready for viewing yet as I'm still testing the script I hope to use and planning how to organise the content. The link I gave was to a thread here where I'm seeking suggestions.
I think I've found something more flexible than a wiki though.
03/27/2005 (3:49 am)
I can't really see that those who program are going to be taught spelling or grammar by doing so, or that those with poor literacy skills are in any way "weeded out" by the process.Programming languages tend not to have that many keywords (they have a small vocabulary), and the compiler/interpreter will pick up on any that are mispelled. The rules of syntax (grammar) are also much more informal and flexible than in a natural language such as English.
It might possibly improve keyboard skills, as mistyped variable names can be hard to spot (so getting them right first time saves a lot of work).
As for my site, it isn't ready for viewing yet as I'm still testing the script I hope to use and planning how to organise the content. The link I gave was to a thread here where I'm seeking suggestions.
I think I've found something more flexible than a wiki though.
#7
No, that's actually what inspired my first post. It's pretty much Greek to me.
Wysardry:
I wasn't suggesting that programming makes one more proficient at English, rather I was suggesting that programmers come from the right half of the bell curve and one would expect greater literacy.
Of course this is a problematic discussion since my only evidence is anecdotal.
Your point about code vocabulary and grammar, and the spell-check are interesting and make sense.
I look forward to seeing what you cook up for your site.
04/02/2005 (2:04 pm)
Chris T:No, that's actually what inspired my first post. It's pretty much Greek to me.
Wysardry:
I wasn't suggesting that programming makes one more proficient at English, rather I was suggesting that programmers come from the right half of the bell curve and one would expect greater literacy.
Of course this is a problematic discussion since my only evidence is anecdotal.
Your point about code vocabulary and grammar, and the spell-check are interesting and make sense.
I look forward to seeing what you cook up for your site.
#8
For someone to become proficient in a new language it usually means they need to set aside there Mama Lashon (Mother Language), for a time and this makes them a little rusty depending on how much time they spend with the new language.
The average programmer, tends to write in thier own dialect of whatever programming language, thus rendering alot of code hard to read, unless you have the context that the dialect comes from.
That said C/C++ is the Mama Lashon of nearly every other computer language, it is VITAL to know the concepts, and syntax of it before truly mastering any of the other local dialects of the programming world.
Honestly if you have no experience in C/C++ learning ANY scripting language is going to be really hard. However if you truly master C/C++ you will find the scripting language very confusing, much as a person coming from England to America may be confused by the various local dialects *cough* Texas! *cough*
My suggestion to anyone who wants to learn this scripting language and get really good at it, is to read a good book, like "Learn C++ in 24 hours", and get really familiar with the basic concepts and then spend time reading and doing the tutorials, but most of all read the source, then place echo statements all over the place and run it to see if you are reading the flow properly. If what is being said in the console makes sense then you have learned how a Torque app flows, much like learning how English sentence structure flows. Then it's all Syntax from there!
04/06/2005 (9:26 am)
Point of fact, programming languages are truly that.. LanguagesFor someone to become proficient in a new language it usually means they need to set aside there Mama Lashon (Mother Language), for a time and this makes them a little rusty depending on how much time they spend with the new language.
The average programmer, tends to write in thier own dialect of whatever programming language, thus rendering alot of code hard to read, unless you have the context that the dialect comes from.
That said C/C++ is the Mama Lashon of nearly every other computer language, it is VITAL to know the concepts, and syntax of it before truly mastering any of the other local dialects of the programming world.
Honestly if you have no experience in C/C++ learning ANY scripting language is going to be really hard. However if you truly master C/C++ you will find the scripting language very confusing, much as a person coming from England to America may be confused by the various local dialects *cough* Texas! *cough*
My suggestion to anyone who wants to learn this scripting language and get really good at it, is to read a good book, like "Learn C++ in 24 hours", and get really familiar with the basic concepts and then spend time reading and doing the tutorials, but most of all read the source, then place echo statements all over the place and run it to see if you are reading the flow properly. If what is being said in the console makes sense then you have learned how a Torque app flows, much like learning how English sentence structure flows. Then it's all Syntax from there!
Torque Owner Jeff Highsmith
I really don't mean that as an insult or as flamebait, I'm genuinely curious.
Is it because they are math types? Is it because they save all their exactitude for code (e.g., because code takes all their energy, or because knowing code creates a sort of contempt for boring old English?)
Sometimes it isn't semi-literacy, instead it's an extreme tendency towards jargon (I realize I might be conflating a common assumption of reader competence with said tendency).
Anyways, I don't mean to be offensive, I'm just curious.
edit: also, is programming so hard that it's just impossible to teach with facility? I know teaching is hard, but man!