BraveTree packs
by Hokuto · in Torque Game Engine · 03/16/2005 (4:13 am) · 5 replies
Hi there,
I have a question about the EULA for Brave Tree packs...
It says:
"You may modify or create derivative works for use in the creation of one software product (a game or simulation), so long as the software product produced is not composed primarily of the the content of this pack."
The part that I'm not comfortable with is :" creation of 'one' software product "
So let's say you buy the pack... from the packs you use for example a car system and a derivation of the Girl asset... so you learn how to get cars to work and characters... tweak the rig... create new bodies for your own project etc...
You make a game using some of these elements...
then what?
Then you throw out of the window all you have derived and learnt from this packs because the license was only good for one game? Which is a bit strange as even the Torque Indie License for the engine allows you to make as many games as you want...
So what if you want to use what you have learned and your modified rig and anims to create a second/third etc.. game?
The ONE PRODUCT statement is a very limiting one...
Question 2 which is not license related, but still relates to Bravetree Packs
Is there any video showing how this packs perform? For example a video of the car moving aroudn the terrain and the Girl moving around and the Sparrow and the Jet Bike etc... so you can SEE how good or bad these assets are before you buy them?
My point is mostly everything else related to GG has videos/Demos... TGE has video and demo, Lighting Pack has a demo, Tim Aste content packs have a video showing how the assets look in game etc...
BraveTree have only pictures that are surely not enough to show off Car Movement Suspension model, Bike model, Fly model, ANimations etc...
It would be great if Brave Tree would make some short video demo... or even a small mission demo where the user can control the assets (if there is a way to ofcourse hide content and scripts from being stolen)
Thanks for replies and help
I have a question about the EULA for Brave Tree packs...
It says:
"You may modify or create derivative works for use in the creation of one software product (a game or simulation), so long as the software product produced is not composed primarily of the the content of this pack."
The part that I'm not comfortable with is :" creation of 'one' software product "
So let's say you buy the pack... from the packs you use for example a car system and a derivation of the Girl asset... so you learn how to get cars to work and characters... tweak the rig... create new bodies for your own project etc...
You make a game using some of these elements...
then what?
Then you throw out of the window all you have derived and learnt from this packs because the license was only good for one game? Which is a bit strange as even the Torque Indie License for the engine allows you to make as many games as you want...
So what if you want to use what you have learned and your modified rig and anims to create a second/third etc.. game?
The ONE PRODUCT statement is a very limiting one...
Question 2 which is not license related, but still relates to Bravetree Packs
Is there any video showing how this packs perform? For example a video of the car moving aroudn the terrain and the Girl moving around and the Sparrow and the Jet Bike etc... so you can SEE how good or bad these assets are before you buy them?
My point is mostly everything else related to GG has videos/Demos... TGE has video and demo, Lighting Pack has a demo, Tim Aste content packs have a video showing how the assets look in game etc...
BraveTree have only pictures that are surely not enough to show off Car Movement Suspension model, Bike model, Fly model, ANimations etc...
It would be great if Brave Tree would make some short video demo... or even a small mission demo where the user can control the assets (if there is a way to ofcourse hide content and scripts from being stolen)
Thanks for replies and help
#2
Still a bit confused...
1)"As for learning, the knowledge you get from the packs is not licensed."
Ok so this means that if I learn from your packs how to code a flying vehicle, or a car or a jet byke or scripted use of character animations, then I can use and improve on this knowledge as I see fit and can re-use my knowledge, scripts wherever I want.. on other projects.
That is like if I by a book on AI programming.. then use what I learn and improve on that applying those notions, AI models, code on further projects. Like if a programmer learns something from a programming book then it works for 10 different software companies and he is free to re-use code he has learnt from the book over and over again... right?
2) "The content is (licensed), so if you make a car using our car setup, then it is under license. If you build your own, excatly the same, then it is yours, and not under license. "
Ok.. so for example the 3d scene car set up (like the image on the product description).. if I use your original scene and build a different 3D car shape to go with it.. it is licensed...
But if I create, from a blank 3d Scene, a setup that is exactly the same as yours...then it all belongs to me and it is no licensed and I can re-use that set up/knowledge as I se fit.
The same goes for the scripting to get the suspensions, brake lights, steering etc... once i learn how you did it.. I can rewrite it because now I know how to do it... and that will be mine free to re-use..
Sorry if I sound confused, but I'm just worried to learn from your packs.. then not be able to re-use scripts, set ups etc..just because I saw them in your packs...
That is like selling a 3D video tutorial on how to build a human head where you follow step by step the modelling process... But at the end the video it says.. you can only build heads for one game... you are not supposed to build heads the same way if you want to work on a different game or work as a free lancer 3D artist... we are worried that you will build heads for other teams and we won't sell this video anymore.. !!! That would be nonsense....
My posts may sound a bit silly, but before learning from your packs I need to know that I'm not going to have troubles if later on I'm going to build cars or characters for some other project and because the set up and scripts were originated from what I learnt from your packs then I won't be able to do it.
I fully understand that I cannot re-use your car 3d models, textures, girl charater etc.. in more then one game... but I guess I'm able to use the same rig in maya to create characters for other games, or re-use the set up for the car and the scripts for other games etc?
Of course if anything in this packs can only be used once... then I will prefer (just my personal view) to learn the hard wat how to create a torque compatible rig in maya or XSI but at least I can re-use it for ever...
03/16/2005 (7:46 am)
Thanks for taking time to reply.Still a bit confused...
1)"As for learning, the knowledge you get from the packs is not licensed."
Ok so this means that if I learn from your packs how to code a flying vehicle, or a car or a jet byke or scripted use of character animations, then I can use and improve on this knowledge as I see fit and can re-use my knowledge, scripts wherever I want.. on other projects.
That is like if I by a book on AI programming.. then use what I learn and improve on that applying those notions, AI models, code on further projects. Like if a programmer learns something from a programming book then it works for 10 different software companies and he is free to re-use code he has learnt from the book over and over again... right?
2) "The content is (licensed), so if you make a car using our car setup, then it is under license. If you build your own, excatly the same, then it is yours, and not under license. "
Ok.. so for example the 3d scene car set up (like the image on the product description).. if I use your original scene and build a different 3D car shape to go with it.. it is licensed...
But if I create, from a blank 3d Scene, a setup that is exactly the same as yours...then it all belongs to me and it is no licensed and I can re-use that set up/knowledge as I se fit.
The same goes for the scripting to get the suspensions, brake lights, steering etc... once i learn how you did it.. I can rewrite it because now I know how to do it... and that will be mine free to re-use..
Sorry if I sound confused, but I'm just worried to learn from your packs.. then not be able to re-use scripts, set ups etc..just because I saw them in your packs...
That is like selling a 3D video tutorial on how to build a human head where you follow step by step the modelling process... But at the end the video it says.. you can only build heads for one game... you are not supposed to build heads the same way if you want to work on a different game or work as a free lancer 3D artist... we are worried that you will build heads for other teams and we won't sell this video anymore.. !!! That would be nonsense....
My posts may sound a bit silly, but before learning from your packs I need to know that I'm not going to have troubles if later on I'm going to build cars or characters for some other project and because the set up and scripts were originated from what I learnt from your packs then I won't be able to do it.
I fully understand that I cannot re-use your car 3d models, textures, girl charater etc.. in more then one game... but I guess I'm able to use the same rig in maya to create characters for other games, or re-use the set up for the car and the scripts for other games etc?
Of course if anything in this packs can only be used once... then I will prefer (just my personal view) to learn the hard wat how to create a torque compatible rig in maya or XSI but at least I can re-use it for ever...
#3
yes, you can use the knowledge over and over and even share the knowledge with others freely (as long as your don't distibute the content)
2)
if you use our scene to start your model, it is under license. If you create an indentical scene from scratch, using the knowledge gained from the packs, it is 100% yours, and you can do whatever you want with it, including making a competing content pack (although that would be in poor form..), and not violate the license.
You are not going to have troubles later on if your intent is to get the packs to bo learn and get a 'kick start' on a game proto-type. We want people to buy them and use them to help with their development. The EULA is worded strongly to give us recourse if someone starts to abuse it.
We are even open to people using the content on several games (note the the EULA intends this to apply to shipped products). It would be great for us, if you ship two games, to buy a second license for the second game.. but if you have reservations about it, just email us and let us know what you are doing, and we can extend the license to include more than one game (and we have done so for those that have requested it).
We are not here to try to shut anyone down or 'get them' if they vilolate the EULA in good faith.
When the content packs first shipped, there was a lot of backlash from those that thought everything should be free, and we were worried that someone would try to 'free up' the content by finding a hole in a very technical reading of the EULA and use that as an excuse to make the packs Open Source though the backdoor.
As long as you are not looking to abuse the license and do things with the content that are going to directly affect sales of the pack, we are not concerned how you use it.
03/16/2005 (8:44 am)
In answer to #1)yes, you can use the knowledge over and over and even share the knowledge with others freely (as long as your don't distibute the content)
2)
if you use our scene to start your model, it is under license. If you create an indentical scene from scratch, using the knowledge gained from the packs, it is 100% yours, and you can do whatever you want with it, including making a competing content pack (although that would be in poor form..), and not violate the license.
You are not going to have troubles later on if your intent is to get the packs to bo learn and get a 'kick start' on a game proto-type. We want people to buy them and use them to help with their development. The EULA is worded strongly to give us recourse if someone starts to abuse it.
We are even open to people using the content on several games (note the the EULA intends this to apply to shipped products). It would be great for us, if you ship two games, to buy a second license for the second game.. but if you have reservations about it, just email us and let us know what you are doing, and we can extend the license to include more than one game (and we have done so for those that have requested it).
We are not here to try to shut anyone down or 'get them' if they vilolate the EULA in good faith.
When the content packs first shipped, there was a lot of backlash from those that thought everything should be free, and we were worried that someone would try to 'free up' the content by finding a hole in a very technical reading of the EULA and use that as an excuse to make the packs Open Source though the backdoor.
As long as you are not looking to abuse the license and do things with the content that are going to directly affect sales of the pack, we are not concerned how you use it.
#4
I know my questions may be a pain... but your answers are good!
:)
Thanks for your time... and now things are quite clear... great stuff!
If I buy your packs I'm sure they will be of great use and a good fast track learning resource.
Thanks
Hokuto
03/16/2005 (9:08 am)
Again Joe, thanks for replying...I know my questions may be a pain... but your answers are good!
:)
Thanks for your time... and now things are quite clear... great stuff!
If I buy your packs I'm sure they will be of great use and a good fast track learning resource.
Thanks
Hokuto
#5
For a team where we have say
one musician
one programmer
one 3d modeller
one texture creator
etc...
and all are located in their homes worldwide.
Does everyone in such a team have to by the a license
as the content of the pack will be in the game everyone
has to have a copy of during the development.
I know the license say 'one computer only' but this becomes
a bit strange is this case as then as an example the musician
would have to buy a license, although in reality the only people
really working with the pack is the programmer and maybe the
modeller.
03/01/2006 (5:16 am)
I also have a question on thisFor a team where we have say
one musician
one programmer
one 3d modeller
one texture creator
etc...
and all are located in their homes worldwide.
Does everyone in such a team have to by the a license
as the content of the pack will be in the game everyone
has to have a copy of during the development.
I know the license say 'one computer only' but this becomes
a bit strange is this case as then as an example the musician
would have to buy a license, although in reality the only people
really working with the pack is the programmer and maybe the
modeller.
Torque Owner Joe Maruschak
Hypothecital situation. One person buys the pack, and then joins every one of the 5000 or so projects on this site, and contributes the art to all of them.. the license then becomes essentially 'free', which is what we don't want.
In our EULA, we also state that we can extend the license. If you want to make a second game, just ask, and within reason, we will extend the license for you.
As for learning, the knowledge you get from the packs is not licensed. The content is, so if you make a car using our car setup, then it is under license. If you build your own, excatly the same, then it is yours, and not under license.
Our EULA is not meant to restict, it is meant to enable without enabling everyone to buy the pack, and then turn around and sell their own pack using pieces of the actual content or find a hole in the EULA that allows them to essentially open source it to everyone
We don't have videos of our content (yet), and we have plans to make a demo showing off the packs.. we just have not gotten to it and it is not a high priority item on our task list at the moment.