Macintosh Experience
by Brian A. · in Torque Game Builder · 03/11/2005 (7:33 pm) · 11 replies
Let me first say on how cool 2DT is, I can not get enough of it. Although I am new to Tourque, I am learning something new everyday and the support of these boards are unlike any other I have seen.
I know that this is a Early Adopter Release but there is one suggestion I have. It would be nice to have a document or FAQ that helps OS-X users out with converting posted files. People are starting to create interesting games and examples every day and it would be great if us lonely MAC people have the opportunity to experience their hard work. I would love to see the demos in action instead of looking at screenshots and reading on how cool it is. ;)
Just my 2 "mac" cents!
I know that this is a Early Adopter Release but there is one suggestion I have. It would be nice to have a document or FAQ that helps OS-X users out with converting posted files. People are starting to create interesting games and examples every day and it would be great if us lonely MAC people have the opportunity to experience their hard work. I would love to see the demos in action instead of looking at screenshots and reading on how cool it is. ;)
Just my 2 "mac" cents!
About the author
#2
/me goes to read EULA again
03/11/2005 (8:15 pm)
We're not suposed to release .cs files at all? I was under the assumption that it was okay as long as the recipiant was a T2D license holder.../me goes to read EULA again
#3
EDIT: I was wrong--it does have a clause about licensed T2D users...it's ok to release .cs files to other licensees. Sorry for the confusion on my part!
03/11/2005 (8:25 pm)
I could be wrong here (haven't read the EULA recently, going to go check myself), but I'm not sure if there is a clause about "releasing to T2D license holders". Like I said, it's a funky situation :(EDIT: I was wrong--it does have a clause about licensed T2D users...it's ok to release .cs files to other licensees. Sorry for the confusion on my part!
#4
(I know. Took me long enough. But there's so many good threads to read here...I got side-tracked >.<)
Section 3e states:
"Licensee may not distribute uncompiled script code which defines any Torque 2D-specific functionality, including but not limited to creating or mainpulating sprites, tiles, particle effects, etc, in any manner, unless recipient also has a license to the Engine."
EDIT: Bah. You already found it. O well. Back to Torquin! =)
03/11/2005 (8:27 pm)
Found it! =)(I know. Took me long enough. But there's so many good threads to read here...I got side-tracked >.<)
Section 3e states:
"Licensee may not distribute uncompiled script code which defines any Torque 2D-specific functionality, including but not limited to creating or mainpulating sprites, tiles, particle effects, etc, in any manner, unless recipient also has a license to the Engine."
EDIT: Bah. You already found it. O well. Back to Torquin! =)
#5
But it is a binary format. And so the biggest incompatibility between Windows and Mac is that Windows (x86) will be little endian since x86 is little endian, and Mac (powerpc) will be big endian. Linux is whatever endian it wants to be.
If thats the only difference, and I imagine it is, its trivial to write a converter.
03/11/2005 (9:12 pm)
I'm kind of ignorant about what the exact differences between Windows (x86), Linux (x86 and about everything else) and Mac (PowerPC) dso files are.But it is a binary format. And so the biggest incompatibility between Windows and Mac is that Windows (x86) will be little endian since x86 is little endian, and Mac (powerpc) will be big endian. Linux is whatever endian it wants to be.
If thats the only difference, and I imagine it is, its trivial to write a converter.
#6
A little history though, the x86/little endian chips are actually the ones that are backwards. There was a bug in one of the chip designs that swapped bytes when writing to disk, but the chips became popular enough that they never changed it back. Most Unix distributions run on RISC processors which are typically big endian (all the consumer Intel AMD stuff is CISC), Mac OS X being one of them.
03/15/2005 (10:43 am)
It would be possible to write some byte swapping routines and make all platforms consistent, but it'd be a lot of work and testing. A little history though, the x86/little endian chips are actually the ones that are backwards. There was a bug in one of the chip designs that swapped bytes when writing to disk, but the chips became popular enough that they never changed it back. Most Unix distributions run on RISC processors which are typically big endian (all the consumer Intel AMD stuff is CISC), Mac OS X being one of them.
#7
5 GG bonus points for anyone who knows where the term comes from.
03/15/2005 (1:46 pm)
Actually, neither one is "backwards". That's like saying English is forward and Arabic is backwards :-)5 GG bonus points for anyone who knows where the term comes from.
#8
Never ask a question that can be answered easily via google :)
03/15/2005 (2:09 pm)
Quote:
The terms big-endian and little-endian are derived from the Lilliputians of Gulliver's Travels, whose major political issue was whether soft-boiled eggs should be opened on the big side or the little side
Never ask a question that can be answered easily via google :)
#9
Hopefully, .dso's will become endian-neutral at some point, or at least support a different extension for each format (.osd?), with a utility to convert.
03/15/2005 (2:26 pm)
Aww, darn google goes and ruins everything :-) When I was a boy, having a head full of worthless information used to actually count for something. Now it just makes you eligible for political office :-)Hopefully, .dso's will become endian-neutral at some point, or at least support a different extension for each format (.osd?), with a utility to convert.
#10
As for .dsos, I know there's endian issues, but I haven't examined Torque's method for writing them out. It could be trivial to fix. (Just swap byte orders if they use simple streams.) Or it could be quite a bear to fix. (They store structs in the files, which need per-element byte swapping PLUS might be boundary-aligned for the CPU class.)
03/15/2005 (3:17 pm)
Also, just as another tidbit, the PPC chips can actually run in both little endian AND big endian mode. But Apple's Gx variants are locked to run in big endian mode.As for .dsos, I know there's endian issues, but I haven't examined Torque's method for writing them out. It could be trivial to fix. (Just swap byte orders if they use simple streams.) Or it could be quite a bear to fix. (They store structs in the files, which need per-element byte swapping PLUS might be boundary-aligned for the CPU class.)
#11
www.codeproject.com/cpp/endianness.asp
03/15/2005 (9:56 pm)
This page includes functions for swapping the byte order for endian issues.www.codeproject.com/cpp/endianness.asp
Torque 3D Owner Stephen Zepp
If the game is released internally, then it may include .cs files (although I think that they are really trying to not do that, too much chance of the primary T2D scripts getting out). If it does include .cs files, then all you have to do is to delete any .cs.dso files (all of 'em), and then run the executable again--that will generate Mac capable .dso's.
EDIT: Removed false information.
If they only release .cs.dso files, then you cannot convert them yourself. For released games to the public, the only way to have a Mac version is to have a set of Mac created .cs.dso files, and release them for the Mac users.
It's a catch-22 issue right now unfortunately, and the only technical solution I can see is for someone to somehow allow a windows/linux executable to byte code compile Mac capable .dso files--and that is not a trivial task. It would be very beneficial I admit to the whole TGE community, because that type of re-write would most probably be completely backwards compatible to TGE as well. I am almost certain that Melv/Josh/GG won't have the time/resource priority to re-write the console stuff to do this (and hey, I don't even know if it's physically possible), so please don't hold your breath on the idea...I just brought it up in case some enterprising TGE expert that knows both Windows and Mac might hear it!