Help with this comments on the book.
by Hokuto · in Torque Game Engine · 03/10/2005 (4:23 pm) · 4 replies
HI there, as I'm about to get a license of Torque I was also considering to get the All In One book... but the I saw this review of the book on Amazon.com from a guy that bought TGE and the Book at the same time but had some problem with the book...
Could current users of TGE and the Book (or even the author) comment on this negative review?
-REVIEW FROM A USER ON AMAZON.com
I purchased this book about two months ago on the recommendation of the GarageGames.com site, which sells the Torque Game Engine upon which the book is based. I also purchased the Torque Game Engine (TGE) at the same time from GarageGames. I was hoping to use the book to learn the Torque Game Engine because the book uses the TGE as the basis for its tutorials.
I quickly learned, however, that the TGE has many faces and that this book examines only a few of them. For example, the TGE is a C++ based engine that must be compiled before it can be used to build a game. The book includes a pre-compiled version of the TGE, however it is not a stock version and no source code is included in the book, so the book's engine cannot be re-compiled or debugged. The TGE included in the book also has been modified by the book's author at the C++ code level. Therefore, it doesn't behave like the stock TGE in all respects. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to run any other TGE samples from other sources using the book's TGE engine. I ended up running one version of the TGE when using the book, and the other (stock) version of the TGE for all of my other learning experiences. This makes for some confusing learning cycles.
I thought I might be able to use the stock TGE to run the tutorials in the book, but I found out through experimentation that the tuturials depend on the custom code in the TGE that comes with the book. Again, I was thwarted in trying to use the book to learn the stock TGE. I really don't understand why the author chose to modify the TGE. All of the tutorials in the book could have been built on a stock TGE. In the end, I set the book aside for the most part and am learning the TGE from the GarageGames.com forums and from other resources on the net.
I also had some issues with the code included in the book samples. For instance, the Chapter 3 tutorials worked fine, but the Chapter 4 tutorials would not run at all on my computer, but froze up instead. The audio libraries included in the book did not work on my computer, but I am able to use the stock audio libraries from the TGE just fine, so I assume this is some sort of bug in the author's compile. I also had trouble with some of the demo software that came on the CD. For instance, Milkshape 3D expired two days after I installed it, leaving me with no choice but to purchase a 3D modelling tool to complete the tutorials on modelling. No big deal for me since I was planning to purchase Caligari Gamespace anyway, but it would probably upset less resourceful programmers.
The upshot of this review is this: I don't think the book is going to be really helpful to folks who are trying to learn game programming with the TGE because it doesn't in fact teach game programming, it tries instead to teach TGE scripting, but is hampered in this effort by its own proprietary use of the TGE source code. I recommend getting the stock TGE instead, and learning it through experimentation. This book may occasionally assist that effort by example, but that's about it.
END REVIEW
It does make some good point, if it is true, about a modified version of Torque and why...
and no being able to use the examples on the stock TGE
I look forward to some suggestion by you guys
Also in the past months or years.. there has been a lot of documentation coming up... like the online manual etc...with the new documentation avaialbe.... does this book still make sense? Or has it been made now redundand?
THanks
Could current users of TGE and the Book (or even the author) comment on this negative review?
-REVIEW FROM A USER ON AMAZON.com
I purchased this book about two months ago on the recommendation of the GarageGames.com site, which sells the Torque Game Engine upon which the book is based. I also purchased the Torque Game Engine (TGE) at the same time from GarageGames. I was hoping to use the book to learn the Torque Game Engine because the book uses the TGE as the basis for its tutorials.
I quickly learned, however, that the TGE has many faces and that this book examines only a few of them. For example, the TGE is a C++ based engine that must be compiled before it can be used to build a game. The book includes a pre-compiled version of the TGE, however it is not a stock version and no source code is included in the book, so the book's engine cannot be re-compiled or debugged. The TGE included in the book also has been modified by the book's author at the C++ code level. Therefore, it doesn't behave like the stock TGE in all respects. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to run any other TGE samples from other sources using the book's TGE engine. I ended up running one version of the TGE when using the book, and the other (stock) version of the TGE for all of my other learning experiences. This makes for some confusing learning cycles.
I thought I might be able to use the stock TGE to run the tutorials in the book, but I found out through experimentation that the tuturials depend on the custom code in the TGE that comes with the book. Again, I was thwarted in trying to use the book to learn the stock TGE. I really don't understand why the author chose to modify the TGE. All of the tutorials in the book could have been built on a stock TGE. In the end, I set the book aside for the most part and am learning the TGE from the GarageGames.com forums and from other resources on the net.
I also had some issues with the code included in the book samples. For instance, the Chapter 3 tutorials worked fine, but the Chapter 4 tutorials would not run at all on my computer, but froze up instead. The audio libraries included in the book did not work on my computer, but I am able to use the stock audio libraries from the TGE just fine, so I assume this is some sort of bug in the author's compile. I also had trouble with some of the demo software that came on the CD. For instance, Milkshape 3D expired two days after I installed it, leaving me with no choice but to purchase a 3D modelling tool to complete the tutorials on modelling. No big deal for me since I was planning to purchase Caligari Gamespace anyway, but it would probably upset less resourceful programmers.
The upshot of this review is this: I don't think the book is going to be really helpful to folks who are trying to learn game programming with the TGE because it doesn't in fact teach game programming, it tries instead to teach TGE scripting, but is hampered in this effort by its own proprietary use of the TGE source code. I recommend getting the stock TGE instead, and learning it through experimentation. This book may occasionally assist that effort by example, but that's about it.
END REVIEW
It does make some good point, if it is true, about a modified version of Torque and why...
and no being able to use the examples on the stock TGE
I look forward to some suggestion by you guys
Also in the past months or years.. there has been a lot of documentation coming up... like the online manual etc...with the new documentation avaialbe.... does this book still make sense? Or has it been made now redundand?
THanks
#2
>in the book, but I found out through experimentation that the
>tuturials depend on the custom code in the TGE that comes with
>the book. Again, I was thwarted in trying to use the book to learn
>the stock TGE. I really don't understand why the author chose to
>modify the TGE. All of the tutorials in the book could have been
>built on a stock TGE.
The reviewer is wrong on this point. We have had this discussion before, and the book's author said that he used a stock version of Torque, no engine changes. It is of course an old version of Torque, since the book was written some time ago.
03/10/2005 (6:04 pm)
>I thought I might be able to use the stock TGE to run the tutorials >in the book, but I found out through experimentation that the
>tuturials depend on the custom code in the TGE that comes with
>the book. Again, I was thwarted in trying to use the book to learn
>the stock TGE. I really don't understand why the author chose to
>modify the TGE. All of the tutorials in the book could have been
>built on a stock TGE.
The reviewer is wrong on this point. We have had this discussion before, and the book's author said that he used a stock version of Torque, no engine changes. It is of course an old version of Torque, since the book was written some time ago.
#3
03/10/2005 (6:29 pm)
The engine version used was 'out-of-the-box' 1.2 release. 
Torque Owner Erik Madison
If money is a concern, don't buy the book. Everything the above review states is pretty much true. You can learn everything you need from this website.
If money is not a concern, then the book is a great accessory. It has charts and lists that you will refer to fairly often at first, and even still after you're an old hand. It's hard copy, which means taking the dog for a walk doesn't have to mean time away from Torque. It's a good read. Most of the information in it is still valid, and will always be valid. Its example game may not be something you wish to actually follow, but you will learn a lot just from the order and manner the example is created.