Back to Torque school!!! Wanting feedback
by Gonzo T. Clown · in General Discussion · 03/10/2005 (3:19 am) · 46 replies
Thanks to a suggestion from LabRat I've been working on a TorqueScript school interface that would allow the teaching of multiple students at the same time via internet in a manner that is very competitive to actual in-person or one on one instruction. I'm getting close to finishing the interface for testing and wanted to share some of the features and get some feedback on what else should be added or considered and also comments on what already exists. In addition, questions or concerns about learning online would welcome. I'm will also be releasing a demo very soon that will allow you to experience some of this firsthand. My initial goal is to have 6 different courses available but additional courses can and will be put on the roster.
Class Scheduling:
My initial plan is for each course to be 10 weeks long with 2 new lessons each week(20 lessons). Each lesson will be given on two different days at two different times to best allow a student to attend one class or the other. This should help people with school or jobs to be able to attend class as well as help those in different timezones. My thinking at this time is one class mid-week during the day and one during a weekend evening.
Courses
Beginners Torque - This class will be centered around those that have absolutely no coding experience at all, and those that WANT to start from the ground up learning about TGE even though they may have skills using other languages. This will include some OOP lessons necessary for the student to understand the nature of it and how it relates to TGE. This class(as well as the rest) could be taken by the public as well as licensed TGE users.
Basic Torque Scripting - This class will be suited to those that are new to TGE who have already taken the first course or already have some background in programming and want to learn TGE quickly. Classes will center around understanding TGE syntax from the ground up and will graduate the student to being able to navigate TGE while adjusting and creating new code. Modding is the first stage in learning programming IMO. There will be some instruction on how the engine and the scripts co-exist and some debugging techniques. Students will also learn to work more efficiently via tips on tool usage and "good habit/bad habit" behavior teachings.
Advanced Torque Scripting - This class will be suited for those that have passed the "Basic TS" class or those that are already familiar to TGE and programming. It will go more in-depth in to TGE scripting as well as understanding the relation of engine to scripts. Students will also learn how to differentiate between a client and the server and how to code for each. Functional details will be better explained and advanced "habit" knowledge will be gained in addition to advanced debugging skills. Students will also learn to make the scripts actually do work for them instead of doing it themselves.
Specialty Courses
Torque Systems Weapons, vehicles, pathcams, triggers, communications, client, server, functions, tools, etc... Here you will learn how to make them all work correctly.
Torque GUI - Name says it all. This is specialty class that is specifically geared toward the TGE interface controls. Students will learn exactly how each control works, what settings are specific to each, and how they are put together. Students will graduate to being able to easily create GUI's as well as how to write script for them and make them interact with both servers and clients.
TorqueScript AI - Also a specialty class, the primary focus here is to teach students some basic AI techniques while reinforcing their TorqueScript skills in relation to AI handling. Students will learn how to plan for AI and get them into the game and by graduation they will know how to program AI in TorqueScript that will interact with players via combat and dialog.
Continued...
Class Scheduling:
My initial plan is for each course to be 10 weeks long with 2 new lessons each week(20 lessons). Each lesson will be given on two different days at two different times to best allow a student to attend one class or the other. This should help people with school or jobs to be able to attend class as well as help those in different timezones. My thinking at this time is one class mid-week during the day and one during a weekend evening.
Courses
Beginners Torque - This class will be centered around those that have absolutely no coding experience at all, and those that WANT to start from the ground up learning about TGE even though they may have skills using other languages. This will include some OOP lessons necessary for the student to understand the nature of it and how it relates to TGE. This class(as well as the rest) could be taken by the public as well as licensed TGE users.
Basic Torque Scripting - This class will be suited to those that are new to TGE who have already taken the first course or already have some background in programming and want to learn TGE quickly. Classes will center around understanding TGE syntax from the ground up and will graduate the student to being able to navigate TGE while adjusting and creating new code. Modding is the first stage in learning programming IMO. There will be some instruction on how the engine and the scripts co-exist and some debugging techniques. Students will also learn to work more efficiently via tips on tool usage and "good habit/bad habit" behavior teachings.
Advanced Torque Scripting - This class will be suited for those that have passed the "Basic TS" class or those that are already familiar to TGE and programming. It will go more in-depth in to TGE scripting as well as understanding the relation of engine to scripts. Students will also learn how to differentiate between a client and the server and how to code for each. Functional details will be better explained and advanced "habit" knowledge will be gained in addition to advanced debugging skills. Students will also learn to make the scripts actually do work for them instead of doing it themselves.
Specialty Courses
Torque Systems Weapons, vehicles, pathcams, triggers, communications, client, server, functions, tools, etc... Here you will learn how to make them all work correctly.
Torque GUI - Name says it all. This is specialty class that is specifically geared toward the TGE interface controls. Students will learn exactly how each control works, what settings are specific to each, and how they are put together. Students will graduate to being able to easily create GUI's as well as how to write script for them and make them interact with both servers and clients.
TorqueScript AI - Also a specialty class, the primary focus here is to teach students some basic AI techniques while reinforcing their TorqueScript skills in relation to AI handling. Students will learn how to plan for AI and get them into the game and by graduation they will know how to program AI in TorqueScript that will interact with players via combat and dialog.
Continued...
About the author
#2
03/10/2005 (3:52 am)
Gonzo, I like the idea ;)
#3
03/10/2005 (4:10 am)
Depending on the price, count me in as a student :)
#4
03/10/2005 (4:17 am)
I'd do it
#6
Ian
03/10/2005 (4:37 am)
Sign me up as a student, I am sure I can find others who are interested too from the team I am in. :)Ian
#7
03/10/2005 (4:55 am)
Very interesting indeed!
#9
03/10/2005 (1:42 pm)
Ill do it defenitely when do you think you would start?
#11
Thank you.
03/10/2005 (9:10 pm)
Gonzo, please check your email and contact me as soon as possible.Thank you.
#12
03/10/2005 (11:18 pm)
Ohh goody. 
#14
03/11/2005 (11:15 pm)
I'll definately do all of the courses if it's free, but I'll try to do one or two if it's not.
#15
03/12/2005 (2:23 pm)
I'm interested as well.
#16
03/12/2005 (9:37 pm)
Sounds like a great idea
#17
I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to each of you personally. Between the SSP, this project, and private work requests it has become practically impossible to respond via email the way I used to. I do appreciate every inquiry and if I could, I would answer each of you personally so please do not be put off or offended because I have not replied.
I'm glad to see there is plenty of interest still in an online school for Torque and I'm still working on this as a top priority. I had hoped to have a demo out for last weekend but it just wasn't possible. I will have one out before this weekend for sure. I'm also hoping to get some more feedback before I finalize the rest of the interface. I had orginally planned to have testing methods involved in this but then decided it wasn't needed and then wondered how you guys might feel about all of it.
Since it was supposed to be a "school", testing seemed like a natural thing, but this school is obviously different than any other in most respects. Although you are there to learn, there is no "degree" to be earned nor "certification" to be achieved. So therefore testing students seems to be a waste of everyone's time. Each person would be there to improve themselves and each person would best know how well they are doing so at this point I am inclined to drop all forms of testing and just devote the time to more teaching. One could argue that a teacher should know the status of his students abilities and testing is a tool for judging such status, but I'm pretty sure I'll know where a student stands anyway through their participation in class and the questions he/she asks. So basically I'm asking for some other POVs on the subject.
Some of the other things I would like to ask opinions on will need to wait for the demo I guess. One such thing is how long classes should be. IMO an hour per class should be enough but I had considered an hour and a half per class also. Once everyone has a chance to review the interface they will have a better feel for how well this will work and how much time it can save everyone while learning. But any thoughts on this subject are always welcome.
If you are planning to take these classes, now is your chance to make them more to your liking by voicing your opinions. Thanks to everyone.
03/16/2005 (6:16 am)
Sorry for the lack of response. Been doing more contract work and finishing the demo. For all those that have emailed me let me say this first...I'm sorry I have not been able to respond to each of you personally. Between the SSP, this project, and private work requests it has become practically impossible to respond via email the way I used to. I do appreciate every inquiry and if I could, I would answer each of you personally so please do not be put off or offended because I have not replied.
I'm glad to see there is plenty of interest still in an online school for Torque and I'm still working on this as a top priority. I had hoped to have a demo out for last weekend but it just wasn't possible. I will have one out before this weekend for sure. I'm also hoping to get some more feedback before I finalize the rest of the interface. I had orginally planned to have testing methods involved in this but then decided it wasn't needed and then wondered how you guys might feel about all of it.
Since it was supposed to be a "school", testing seemed like a natural thing, but this school is obviously different than any other in most respects. Although you are there to learn, there is no "degree" to be earned nor "certification" to be achieved. So therefore testing students seems to be a waste of everyone's time. Each person would be there to improve themselves and each person would best know how well they are doing so at this point I am inclined to drop all forms of testing and just devote the time to more teaching. One could argue that a teacher should know the status of his students abilities and testing is a tool for judging such status, but I'm pretty sure I'll know where a student stands anyway through their participation in class and the questions he/she asks. So basically I'm asking for some other POVs on the subject.
Some of the other things I would like to ask opinions on will need to wait for the demo I guess. One such thing is how long classes should be. IMO an hour per class should be enough but I had considered an hour and a half per class also. Once everyone has a chance to review the interface they will have a better feel for how well this will work and how much time it can save everyone while learning. But any thoughts on this subject are always welcome.
If you are planning to take these classes, now is your chance to make them more to your liking by voicing your opinions. Thanks to everyone.
#18
one hour seems good to me, I would enjoy 1 1/2 hours as well, though then again might not be as convenient... though when the class occurs (evenining, night, etc) might be a restricting factor for some, also due to time zone differences (which I'm sure you've already taken into consideration)
This is very exciting, can't wait to take the classes and see the new interface you have going, though another concern is price (mainly since GDC just hit so I'm not sure about others, but my team and I are a bit strapped)
03/16/2005 (7:28 am)
I agree with you on testing... since no certificate or degree is distributed then there really is no need, people will be paying for this, its their responsibility to ensure their status is known (similar to the different mentality of college vs high school)...one hour seems good to me, I would enjoy 1 1/2 hours as well, though then again might not be as convenient... though when the class occurs (evenining, night, etc) might be a restricting factor for some, also due to time zone differences (which I'm sure you've already taken into consideration)
This is very exciting, can't wait to take the classes and see the new interface you have going, though another concern is price (mainly since GDC just hit so I'm not sure about others, but my team and I are a bit strapped)
#19
for example the show tol for $35 is good... but the RTS pack for $50, half the price of the whole engine, sounds a bit expensive...(I know it depends on how badly you want it and how much is going to help you, but with an eninge only costing $100... everything else should be proportionally priced)
03/16/2005 (7:50 am)
Well, I guess anyone creating content or learning packs around an engine that only costs $100 should be aware of the fact that users may not be prepared to pay high price... for example the show tol for $35 is good... but the RTS pack for $50, half the price of the whole engine, sounds a bit expensive...(I know it depends on how badly you want it and how much is going to help you, but with an eninge only costing $100... everything else should be proportionally priced)
#20
As far as testing is concerned, you could always put out an optional quiz. If the student wanted to take it, they can, if they don't want to, they don't have to. For myself, I don't mind taking a quick 10-20 question quiz, just to check myself (as long as its a not trick questions.. I hate tests that test if you can get through the question and not about the material).
As far as class participation, I don't know how you're going to handle it, but not every one will speak up. They may think they understand the subject so they don't ask the question or even may not have a question. In every "class" situation I've been in, there are those that just will not ask a question: a) thinking its a stupid question, b) afraid of looking stupid or fear of being teased--reprimanded by the other students, c) they are just too shy, d) don't want to hold up the class. So using the gauge "of the kind of questions that they ask" may not be a good measurement.
Just my two cents worth.
03/16/2005 (8:13 am)
I like this school idea as well - I will diffinently take this.As far as testing is concerned, you could always put out an optional quiz. If the student wanted to take it, they can, if they don't want to, they don't have to. For myself, I don't mind taking a quick 10-20 question quiz, just to check myself (as long as its a not trick questions.. I hate tests that test if you can get through the question and not about the material).
As far as class participation, I don't know how you're going to handle it, but not every one will speak up. They may think they understand the subject so they don't ask the question or even may not have a question. In every "class" situation I've been in, there are those that just will not ask a question: a) thinking its a stupid question, b) afraid of looking stupid or fear of being teased--reprimanded by the other students, c) they are just too shy, d) don't want to hold up the class. So using the gauge "of the kind of questions that they ask" may not be a good measurement.
Just my two cents worth.
Torque Owner Gonzo T. Clown
The interface will be through TGE itself. It's packed with options to allow a user to customize the interface fonts and styles as well as desktop and window colors. It will interact with the user and teacher both and will allow students to both learn and build at the same time. While students receive instruction they will see things happen in real-time as well as make things happen themselves. The teacher will be able to pass live instruction and testing to the students while simultaneously viewing their work and rendering one on one assistance when needed without disturbing the rest of the class. Students will be able to simultaneously learn, ask questions, take notes, do class work, and review class history through their interface and can even use it to review class and practice various teachings when there is no class at all by reviewing the "Class History". Students will have palettes for executing code, scratchpads for taking notes, a "graphical textbook" gui, class dialog, a blackboard(no screeching nails), and a few other nifty surprises.
Efficiency:
Due to concerns about Internet teaching not being as efficient as face to face or "same room" teaching, three systems were created to manage class flow. IMO these combined systems and interface will help make Internet teaching superior to face to face teaching in almost all respects. These systems are...
Class History
I've automated the interface so that not only can it be controlled by the teacher at various times, but it will also record the class and play the class back. This is not done via the journal or recording methods because they do not provide the type of control or reliability I was looking for. Class history will be reviewable in real time or at the users pace. He can choose to follow the class exactly as it happened, or go as fast or slow as he pleases. If a student wanted he could go log into class and then go out for pizza. When he returned his interface will have recorded the class and he could review it at his liesure. For those that miss class completely, a transcript will be made available after class ends that can be download and played just as if they had recorded it themselves. The transcript will play the interface in a manner not unlike the way a player piano plays the music for you and will render the class dialog and materials in real-time as if the user were in class. The only loss to the user will be the ability for them to directly ask the teacher questions or request assistance. Other than that, they will see exactly what every other student in class saw. The demo I'm releasing later will include a transcript to demonstrate exactly how well it works.
Teachers Helper - is a multi faceted system which resides on the teachers client. In addition to various tasks that automate teacher duties it also preps the lesson plans and reports class information to the teacher. Class instruction is prepared in advance much like a school teacher would prepare themselves for the next days lessons and then it is loaded into Teachers Helper. Teachers helper will then wait for the teacher to cue the instruction materials for delivery to the students. This greatly reduces teacher workload during class leaving much more time for actual one on one assistance and the flexibility to speed up or slow down class pace or make "on the fly" changes without having the class decend into chaos.
Teachers Pet - resides on the server and is responsible for handling student questions and requests in addition to assisting Teachers Helper with workload tasks. Teachers Pet will build the transcript for the students that miss class and take snap-shots of server status at regular intervals as a server crash precaution. If a crash occured, upon restart Teachers Pet recognizes the crash condition and last succesful event, it then resets the server to the status that it was previous to the crash, and then waits for class to resume.
Comments? Questions? Suggestions?