We'd still be playing Pong without WHOM?
by Jay Barnson · in General Discussion · 03/08/2005 (12:42 pm) · 82 replies
Okay. I wanted to rant a little bit. This ad for the University of Advancing Technology has been in Game Developer Magazine for a while, and it really bugs the crap out of me.
I guess we need to change Mount Rushmore and replace a couple of presidential mugs with this guy, and Al Gore (who invented the Internet, remember).
I tend to agree with Chris Crawford, who describes the role of these schools as "cranking out foot soldiers for the games industry." Evidently they don't teach much of the history of the game industry, or this kid wouldn't be so quick to put himself - with an Unreal Tournament mod to his credit - in the same category as such pioneers a Nolan Bushnell, Toshihiro Nishikado, Ed Logg, Eugene Jarvis, Toru Iwatani, David Crane, Richard Garriott, Will Wright, Sid Meier, Chris Crawford, Steve Wozniak, Jordan Mechner, and Shigeru Miyamoto.
No offense against modders, who do some really cool work and have some great ideas, but when you are standing on the shoulders of giants it's impolite to do your victory dance on their faces. It may just be the marketing department putting words in Mr. Hartlieb's mouth, but still... It comes off as incredibly arrogant, ignorant, and puts me off towards the school in general. What ARE they teaching the kids these days???
(Now hold on while I grab my cane, put in my teeth, and yell at those kids who are in my yard again...)
I guess we need to change Mount Rushmore and replace a couple of presidential mugs with this guy, and Al Gore (who invented the Internet, remember).
I tend to agree with Chris Crawford, who describes the role of these schools as "cranking out foot soldiers for the games industry." Evidently they don't teach much of the history of the game industry, or this kid wouldn't be so quick to put himself - with an Unreal Tournament mod to his credit - in the same category as such pioneers a Nolan Bushnell, Toshihiro Nishikado, Ed Logg, Eugene Jarvis, Toru Iwatani, David Crane, Richard Garriott, Will Wright, Sid Meier, Chris Crawford, Steve Wozniak, Jordan Mechner, and Shigeru Miyamoto.
No offense against modders, who do some really cool work and have some great ideas, but when you are standing on the shoulders of giants it's impolite to do your victory dance on their faces. It may just be the marketing department putting words in Mr. Hartlieb's mouth, but still... It comes off as incredibly arrogant, ignorant, and puts me off towards the school in general. What ARE they teaching the kids these days???
(Now hold on while I grab my cane, put in my teeth, and yell at those kids who are in my yard again...)
About the author
Jay has been a mainstream and indie game developer for a... uh, long time. His professional start came in 1994 developing titles for the then-unknown and upcoming Sony Playstation. He runs Rampant Games and blogs at Tales of the Rampant Coyote.
#62
04/14/2005 (10:55 am)
....(sorry double posted)
#63
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but in Al Gore's case, maybe necessity should've used birth control that day.
04/14/2005 (10:56 am)
Ads like that make me wish that someone would just pour a little more chlorine in the Gene Pool.Necessity may be the mother of invention, but in Al Gore's case, maybe necessity should've used birth control that day.
#64
So i do understand where you guys are coming from as far as seeming to cocky. It may have been a little overboard but at least its getting some notice.
But sorry to make it seem like that was from me. If you know me on a personal basis you would know thats not my character.
04/14/2005 (10:58 am)
Yea that quote was def NOT from me.... I wasnt even alive when pong was released! So i do understand where you guys are coming from as far as seeming to cocky. It may have been a little overboard but at least its getting some notice.
But sorry to make it seem like that was from me. If you know me on a personal basis you would know thats not my character.
#65
I saw that video of you that the school did, and you seemed like a pretty down-to-earth guy. Glad to hear it was just marketing putting words in your mouth. So let me apologize for catching an innocent victim in my flames.
I've done my rant; I'm done now. Though I still can't stand that ad. :)
04/14/2005 (11:20 am)
@Mark:I saw that video of you that the school did, and you seemed like a pretty down-to-earth guy. Glad to hear it was just marketing putting words in your mouth. So let me apologize for catching an innocent victim in my flames.
I've done my rant; I'm done now. Though I still can't stand that ad. :)
#66
but isnt that you in the picture adjusting your tie?
come clean!
you anti-pongite!
04/19/2005 (9:44 am)
Ok mark so maybe that wasnt your quotebut isnt that you in the picture adjusting your tie?
come clean!
you anti-pongite!
#67
Seriously Mark, even if that isn't your quote, the fact that you appear to be giving the nod of approval to this ad, says that even though they weren't YOUR words, you DO feel that way.
Honestly if it were me and I had been misquoted in such a fashion, or blatently had words put in my mouth that were NOT my opinion, I would file suit, and lets leave it at that.
04/19/2005 (9:49 am)
Actually looks to me like he's a little hot in that collar, same way them guys look on Law & Order when they say something stupid to the DA :)Seriously Mark, even if that isn't your quote, the fact that you appear to be giving the nod of approval to this ad, says that even though they weren't YOUR words, you DO feel that way.
Honestly if it were me and I had been misquoted in such a fashion, or blatently had words put in my mouth that were NOT my opinion, I would file suit, and lets leave it at that.
#68
What's kinda sad (and maybe I'm just feeling unusually jaded today) is all the kids who are gonna get sucked in by this ad thinking they are going to be rock stars, only to find out they are qualified to be corporate cogs. Ah, well.
04/19/2005 (10:45 am)
Ya usually don't want to go setting fire to the ship you are currently sailing in.What's kinda sad (and maybe I'm just feeling unusually jaded today) is all the kids who are gonna get sucked in by this ad thinking they are going to be rock stars, only to find out they are qualified to be corporate cogs. Ah, well.
#69
04/19/2005 (10:49 am)
Who cares? Any advertisement is good avertisement... If it gets there school more students interested in the field, then does it honestly matter in the end? 
#70
I stick by what I said earlier
"You get out of anything what you put in..."
(though I know what your meaning Jay... its almost as if this is borderline false advertising)
04/19/2005 (10:52 am)
I see it this way... those that will get sucked into this and are gullible enough to beleive that they are "going to be rock stars" will end up corporate cogs even if they get in the industry after graduation... those that are going to work harder and put more into it and do things on the side to get their own thing going or their own connections going will do better...I stick by what I said earlier
"You get out of anything what you put in..."
(though I know what your meaning Jay... its almost as if this is borderline false advertising)
#71
If marketing makes potential employers think of the school as a joke, it's a problem.
And I imagine it could be a problem for Mr Hartlieb personally if someone happened to remember that magazine ad while looking at his resume for a potential position.
04/19/2005 (11:49 am)
@ChrisIf marketing makes potential employers think of the school as a joke, it's a problem.
And I imagine it could be a problem for Mr Hartlieb personally if someone happened to remember that magazine ad while looking at his resume for a potential position.
#72
You don't think that some of you are taking this add a little too seriously. I mean after all, without game designers, we WOULD still be playing games like pong.
04/19/2005 (12:02 pm)
I doubt one add will make employers think everyone from that school is a joke. However, if an abundance of adds were to be put out with this type of media, I can understand your perspectives..... You don't think that some of you are taking this add a little too seriously. I mean after all, without game designers, we WOULD still be playing games like pong.
#73
And you seem to forget that a lot of studios, game designer is one of the lower salaried jobs, and one of the most ingrate, since you have to deal with your dev team not getting your point, and producers asking for changes that might not make any sense to your design, or just any sense period.
The average game designer doesn't get to do that much game design...
Until you have a runaway hit, you don't get much respect as a game designer (which is too bad, and wrong, of course)
Two, this ad is in gamedev magazine, a widespread trade publication, where most readers do know better, but are also likely to react like all the industry people who posted in this thread, including the thread starter.
you do the maths :)
04/19/2005 (12:32 pm)
Crhis : no, we wouldn't, Pong was designed by a game designer, even if he was also a coder, etc. :)And you seem to forget that a lot of studios, game designer is one of the lower salaried jobs, and one of the most ingrate, since you have to deal with your dev team not getting your point, and producers asking for changes that might not make any sense to your design, or just any sense period.
The average game designer doesn't get to do that much game design...
Until you have a runaway hit, you don't get much respect as a game designer (which is too bad, and wrong, of course)
Two, this ad is in gamedev magazine, a widespread trade publication, where most readers do know better, but are also likely to react like all the industry people who posted in this thread, including the thread starter.
you do the maths :)
#74
www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2005-04-04
Probably one of the most concise articles on the reality of being a game designer today. And Geoff is pretty much at the top of his career right now. Fortunately, he loves it - but it's not what most people expect of the job.
04/19/2005 (1:20 pm)
I posted this in another thread, but here goes:www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2005-04-04
Probably one of the most concise articles on the reality of being a game designer today. And Geoff is pretty much at the top of his career right now. Fortunately, he loves it - but it's not what most people expect of the job.
#75
Heh.. nice. Fun little side scroller.
04/20/2005 (12:45 am)
Quote:With all that said, I don't think my time at UAT has been a total waste in the game design department. I have met some amazing people here who have built great games and continue to inspire me to continue my own development. One such game built by Tommy Visic was Glace which I ran the QA for. www.tommyvisic.com/Glace/
Heh.. nice. Fun little side scroller.
#76
So then you agree... Without game designers we would still be playing pong... in fact we never would have even had pong... So there is nothing false about the statement...If the guy who created pong was the only game designer (and pong was the first game) and then there were NO game designers then there would be no more games and all we would have is pong. The statement iastrue, even if it seems cocky...
04/20/2005 (6:15 am)
@Nicolas... "no, we wouldn't, Pong was designed by a game designer, even if he was also a coder, etc. :)"So then you agree... Without game designers we would still be playing pong... in fact we never would have even had pong... So there is nothing false about the statement...If the guy who created pong was the only game designer (and pong was the first game) and then there were NO game designers then there would be no more games and all we would have is pong. The statement iastrue, even if it seems cocky...
#77
04/20/2005 (8:25 am)
Too many "if"s
#78
04/20/2005 (12:41 pm)
Chris : Pong wasn't the first vidgame, not by a long shot, matter of fact, Pong was a clone of an earlier game, blatantly ripped off for commercial purposes. Obviously without game designers no game, which makes that slogan all the more asinine : it makes no sense period, so no I don't agree with you or the statement...
#79
Why fight with each other? You guys need to get out of the house a bit more. Arguing about Pong?
GET OUT OF HERE hahahah (humor).
04/20/2005 (12:45 pm)
I think most people agree the picture sucks. Just send them a message telling them it blows.Why fight with each other? You guys need to get out of the house a bit more. Arguing about Pong?
GET OUT OF HERE hahahah (humor).
#80
You know what they say... Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if you win you're still retarded... No offence to anyone of course. Just think it's funny (and true in a non-politically correct way)
04/20/2005 (1:03 pm)
I dont really give a shit about there ad. I honestly dont think many people care in the least... You know what they say... Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics... Even if you win you're still retarded... No offence to anyone of course. Just think it's funny (and true in a non-politically correct way)
Benjamin Reynolds