Torque and TSE

#1 How does TSE integrate with torque?

TSE is TGE with a new graphic layer ( it is a stand alone engine essentiall TGE + shaders)

Can we start coding in the torque engine with the TSE in mind and simply implement the features of the TSE at a latter date?

Yes and would be the recommened approach untill TSE is officiall finished

Or is the TSE a stand alone that we must begin development in?

TSE is standalone, but all except the art pipeline is the same. I would say porting a completed game from TGE to TSE would only take a matter of a few day (code wise)

#2 Thanks alot. This means we can get started :)

#3 Post deleted--wildly incorrect information. Thanks Tom!

#4 To be clear TSE does not use OpenGL at the moment. It is DirectX only with the OpenGL layer and porting to non-Windows platforms coming later in the project.

#5 Blargh, sorry...Tom is absolutely correct. For some strange reason I absolutely forgot that TSE is D3D only at the moment.

#6 Anthony Rosenbaum is not entirely correct in his statement that TSE is the same as TGE except the art pipeline.
The current build of TSE has parts from older revisions of TGE.

It will eventually get the same (other than that art-pipeline) though.

#7 TSE is not TGE + Shaders for, what really should be but probably won't be, the last time.

TSE is re-doing the graphical components of TGE. TGE is not at all optimized to take advantage of modern GPUs. It does not use vertex buffers, it does not batch primitives, it doesn't do any cool dynamic lighting effects, etc. I've said it before, you can put shaders into TGE in about half an hour, I've done it. When you buy TSE you aren't paying for Torque + Shaders, you are paying for a re-done rendering pipeline, an artist-friendly material system (which includes shaders), a totally re-vamped Terrain engine which is probably the best in the industry, a new water engine, new particle engine, render-to-texture effects, and the list goes on.

It's not Torque + Shaders, damn it.

#8 That's what you get for naming it the Torque "Shader" Engine. ;)

#9 "Torque Material Terrain Water Particle Texture Rendering Shader Engine" would have been a bit of a mouthful though.

#10 Haha... I dunno, I'm gonna talk to Jay about that name, I think it'll fly.

But I think Anthony was just trying to explain in as simple terms as possible what TSE is, relative to Torque, without going into too much technical detail. Seems to have got the point across, and Matthew, glad you're ready to start working. :)

#11 Torque 2.

#12 Had to laugh when I noticed this thread. Without meaning to raise any ire here I have to admit that after I bought Torque a short time ago I spent a fair amount of time wondering if I needed the Lighting Pack and the "Shader Pack". Took me a couple of weeks of scanning the forums and asking a couple of questions to figure out it wasn't a "pack", but basically a newer version of Torque.

I have to agree with Jeff, "Torque 2" or "Torque Pro" would have said it all up front. I also purchased T2D and am loving that, but still trying to figure out what TGE's future is now that TSE is in EA. I see bits and pieces that seem to indicate TGE will continue to be improved even after TSE is released, but now that I have decided to get the Commercial version I don't know whether to go with TGE or wait for TSE for the move up in license.

Indications are (and I'm simplifying) that TGE will continue life as a graphically lower end version, while TSE will take over the higher end graphic market, along with all the other improvements mentioned above by Pat. But again, still trying to figure all that out. It would be helpful to know what the future holds for TGE at this point as far as maintenance and feature enhancements.

Lastly, I apologize if this has all been detailed somewhere, but I really have tried to scan most of the hundreds of threads and as many of the .plans as I could for this info.

#13 Torque 2 could easily be confused with Torque 2D and/or Torque 2.0 (if the release versions end up going that high). Adding "turbocharged" or "injection" somewhere in the name would go with the engine theme, but making changes now would confuse people even more.

As for the development of TGE, the Project Manager lists versions 1.4.0 and 1.5.0, so GG are planning for its future.

I would hope that work continue on it for a good few years yet, as an entry point 3D product like TGE is needed by those starting out, on a limited budget or wishing to release games for older hardware.

#14 Well we just bought TGE. I'll be buying the TSE soon. I just wanted to make sure that the TSE was simply a rewrite of the renderer and not a whole new SDK that needed new code.

From an outsiders perspective I understood that TSE was an upgrade but think it would help for you guys to put:

*Games from the TGE can be brought right into the TSE and take advantage of all its new features, and rendering pipeline.

As a USP.

That would answer a lot of the questions I think.


Glad to be a part of the community, I'll link you all our games web page once it's up.


Any clue why the TSE runs slow on my computer? Is it because it's still under development?

#15 We are continuing to furiosly update TGE and our plans are to keep this effort up. The differentiating factor between TGE and TSE will be price and features. At the base level, i.e. what we are starting to call the Torque Foundation Libraries (TFL), all of our engines will be the same. The TFL will encompass the platform layer, networking, scripting, and other common features that all engines need at the base level. Above that, the engines will differentiate themselves, i.e. 2D features, fixed pipeline 3D features, shaders, terrains, etc.

TGE will continue to be sold at the $100 price point, while TSE will remain at $295. Over time, all of our engines will get better, and will continue to differentiate themsleves.

#16 @Jeff T: GREAT explanation, thanks! Was wondering myself a bit how it was all going to interact.

#17 @Jeff: I agree with Stephen. Great explanation and clears up a lot of things. Thanks. I can envision the use of all three engines depending on target audience and requirements.

After literally months of research and evaluation, a large part of the reason I went with Torque is because of the community and the responses I've seen from GG. It made me a believer in the people behind the product and the direction GG is headed.

#18

Quote:From an outsiders perspective I understood that TSE was an upgrade but think it would help for you guys to put:

*Games from the TGE can be brought right into the TSE and take advantage of all its new features, and rendering pipeline.

At this point, TSE is not complete, so that statement would not be true.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but even when it is complete I doubt it would be possible to replace the TGE executable in every game with a TSE one and have them all run without modifications to the scripts and/or other assets.

#19 Right. Any calls to the gl style graphics functions will have to be rewritten using the new GFX api. Terrain will probably be different enough to at least need some adjustments to art. Probably alot more i can't seem to think of right now.

#20 Hmm, Torque Pro, or Torque 2, might indeed be better than TSE. Especially since the term "shaders" won't mean as much in the near future when they are ubiquitous.