Planning a Torque site

#1 I really like the Mambo CMS, but I don't think it would be the easiest to use.

GameBeavers uses a modified PHP-Nuke, so that may be a good option.

You don't have to take my advice, I am still a newbie, kinda.

#2 @Wysardry
I'm a noobie myself on the GG site and with the TGE. Finding information on the GG site can be, shall we say, overwhelming. What you're proposing sounds like a great complimentary site to GG as long as you go with the "all skill levels" approach. I certainly would like to contribute tutorials for the beginner to help people get over those first hurdles (I'm still negotiating those myself "). But I've learned a lot from the help of the great people here and would like to pass it on in some small way.

The end-user aspect is very appealing. So often we as developers and designers forget we're building for people other than ourselves. Articles in this vein would be enlightening. I think of articles I've read on Gamasutra by Ernst Adams and folk like him. An Indie perspective would be a great addition in an educational sense.

On the tech side, I can't really help but wish you luck going foreward. Keep me posted ")

James "The Smeg" Allan

#3 If I were you USE XOOPS! It is one of the easiest to use, and it doesn't cost like php-nuke does.

You'll save tons of time using it rather than mambo, geeklog, postnuke, etc.

I use it all the time, one of the best to work with.

#4 Hi Wysardry, that's awesome. :) Just sent you an email..

#5 Robert: I've already downloaded Mambo so that I can compare it with other similar programs, but unless PHP-Nuke has improved drastically in the last year or so it's too bloated, insecure and buggy for my tastes.

James: I'm far from being an expert on TGE myself, so I know the feeling. The initial articles will be aimed at beginners, and will become more advanced as I learn more myself. Hopefully, in time, others will contribute to "fill in the gaps" (which is why I'm looking for content management software rather than using HTML directly).

I also know what it is like to be on a tight budget, so I'll be concentrating on cheap and/or free third party tools.

Cameron: Xoops seems to have come a long way since I last checked their site, so I'll add that to my comparison list. Thanks.

Josh: I've just answered your email. :)

______________
I guess I should add a little more information about the features I would like to include, so that making suggestions is easier.

I envisioned including forums, "static" articles/tutorials, a links database and a resource library to start with.

I would also like to add a list of TGE/TSE projects which allows those involved to add regular progress reports or otherwise indicate their activity level.

#6 Are there no other comments or suggestions regarding this?

#7 @wysardry, will your site would be like "wikipedia" or something? that i think would be good IMHO. :-)

#8 I doubt a setup exactly like Wikipedia would work for an independent site on such specialised topics. Finding a team of editors would be difficult and without some form of approval process or regular checks it would be all too easy for malicious users to post spam.

However, some features such as a hierarchal organisation of the content, allowing others to contribute and keeping it simple would be all be helpful.

#9 I was thinking of making a webpage similar to what you are planning. Mainly it was for my reference. I looked at how Hall of Worlds was set up, he did his for his personal notes. The one thing that having links to code was good, but you had to go through long threads to finally get code working and complete. Also found that people sometimes never posted the final code or a solution to it. What would be good is to have a link to the thread then have an editor test, and explain what is going on with the code. Also have a .zip file of the completed code. Now another problem arises... how to do the threads with the core engine code. You won't be able to explain those on your site because of ELUA.

Let me know if you are looking for specific topics... I have been saving links for over a year now that I thought was interesting or may use one day. I personally think that it needs to be setup for beginners first then build up to different skill levels.

- related books that use Torque
- script of the week
- weekly tutorial
- free art gallery
- projects snapeshot gallery
- games created with TGE/TSE/T2D links



edit: spelling

#10 I would imagine that at any given time, there are quite a few Torque users sorting through the available resources and copying/bookmarking those that are likely to be useful or still current to create their own reference.

If we can manage to provide an easy way for people to collaborate when doing this, and thereby create a central reference with meaningful URLs, there would be much less duplicated effort.

I don't imagine that being unable to include info on the core engine code will be a problem for some time if we are to concentrate on beginners and build gradually to more advanced topics. It may even encourage users to try harder to solve problems using script alone.

One of the things I would like to do is make it more obvious that the Torque engines are flexible enough for changes to the code to be unnecessary in most instances, and that there is a lot you can do with the demo and precompiled versions.

Suggestions for specific topics would be useful, as I would like to create at least a rough plan for the site hierarchy.

Other than 3D Game Programming All in One, are there any books specifically aimed at Torque users?

#11 Here are some books that are Torque specific:

1.) 2D Artwork and 3D Modeling for Game Artist by David Franson
- includes demo of Realm Wars

2.) The Dark Side of Game Textures by David Franson
- making textures relating to Torque

3.) Physics Modeling for Game Programmers by David Conger
- includes Torque Engine Install

4.) 3D Game Programming All In One by Kenneth C. Finney
- make a game with.

#12 This is all very cool. We would worry about how the private stuff will be protected. Just to let you know, we are developing something very similar to what is being proposed here (it is a Wiki system that retains the knowledge of what groups a member belongs to). We would be more than happy to build it and host it and let many of you be editors, contributors, etc. There are some extremely good ideas percolating in this thread. Keep it up!

-Jeff Tunnell GG

Edit: Oops, just realized that Josh is already attemtping to contact Wyzardry.

#13 This is all very cool. We would worry about how the private stuff will be protected. Just to let you know, we are developing something very similar to what is being proposed here (it is a Wiki system that retains the knowledge of what groups a member belongs to). We would be more than happy to build it and host it and let many of you be editors, contributors, etc. There are some extremely good ideas percolating in this thread. Keep it up!

-Jeff Tunnell GG

#14 Here is the hierarchy that I was using for my notes. I set it up by the official tutorial page of GG. I find it very easy to find things this way. Hope this might give you some ideas.

Basics-
+ Tutorials - gui
- dts (static shapes)
- dif
- mapping
- dts and dsq

+ Tools - free
- low cost ($1 - 100)
- meduim cost ($100 - 1,000)
- high cost ($1,000 and up)

+ Intergrated editors - world
- gui
- terrian
- terrian generator

coding
dif: buildings and interiors
dts: player models, vehicles, and weapons
game creation
game specific features
gui
lighting pack
outdoor enviroments
scripting
sound

books - specific
- related game dev

content packs - links

sites - links

You could use the same format for TGE and TSE. Or you can put a note next to each topic what it works with.

Also was wondering if you were going to cover Torque 2d?

edit: spelling

#15 Mark: Thanks for letting me know about those other books. It seems that a Torque-specific review section would be larger (and more worthwile) than I had originally thought.

I'll add your suggested hierarchy to my current notes, as I'm currently comparing several methods of categorisation.

One of the aspects I've been trying to work out is how to handle the differences and similarities of each product. Info could potentially apply to TGE only, TSE only, T2D only, TGE + TSE, TGE + T2D, TSE + T2D or TGE + TSE + T2D. To complicate matters, each product has several versions, runs on different platforms and there are addon packs available.

I don't currently have any plans to purchase Torque 2D, as I have already own TGE, TSE, the lighting pack and the content pack combo. I will likely play with the demo so that I can at least include general info and hopefully others will provide more detail.


Jeff: I think the main problem with protecting sensitive information would be in verifying whether a particular member owned the required license(s). If the demand was high enough, the simplest solution would be to give GG employees admin functions allowing them to process applications to join the relevant user groups and/or approve content submissions.

Josh told me about the Wiki you're planning. I'll likely get involved in that too and it will likely save me some work. However, a Wiki isn't likely to be flexible enough to provide every feature I was hoping to. Being mostly text based it would be ideal for providing info on core engine changes though, and if based on the existing member system there would be less need for such sensitive info to be included on other sites.

#16 Well, I thought of the versions also. Just as deciding on making games... I would us the current releases. Then build off of that. When newer releases come out... add the code changes if needed and note it. On all of the topics you need to put info boxes at the top as to what release and engine it relates to. Say you have a page on gui scripts... at the top have a info box stating that it works with TGE r.1_3_0, TSE r.0_0_2, SLP 2.0 and T2d r.0_2_0. If it requires core engine code changes, you could have a link that would go to a resource or forum thread on GG with the code source. I think you could explain basics of how it works as long as no actual code is invovled then supply a link to it on GG. GG would automatically would detect if you have access to it or not. I know this works because I hit a link on my notes and it won't let me have access because I forgot to log in GG site. This would solve the problem of ELUA violations.


edit:spelling again

#17 I would like to be able to include details of which programs and versions each article/resource/whatever was compatible with in the description by the link leading to it.

My main concern is keeping that current so that two years down the line people know whether the oldest links are still worth following (some will be, and others will be only be useful to those using previous versions).

Another lesser concern is that the list of compatible versions could become longer than the description of the item itself.

Yes, any restricted pages here linked from outside sites or bookmarks will redirect/block those who aren't logged in or don't have a cookie set identifying them as being authorised to access them.

With any luck, by the time we move on to more advanced topics, the official wiki will already include info on them.

#18 Do you have a basic site up yet? Just so we could get an idea of what it looks like and give feedback. Doesn't have to active links, just a basic format of what it would look like. I did this on a geocities one time to get feedback of the basic design and layout. It helps alot. It pushes the project faster in getting it up and started.

#19 Currently, I only have a very basic "coming soon" page available online, as I'm still looking for a decent script to use so that others can contribute to the project without needing to know HTML.

The initial page design and layout, along with the site navigation would all be dependent on that choice to some degree, especially in the early stages.

Finding a suitable script is proving problematic, but fortunately I have Apache, PHP, MySQL and Perl installed on my aging laptop, so I can test most of them offline.

It's starting to look as if I might have to add modifications of my own to get the functionality I need.

#20 Are you allowed to use the screenshots in the gallery on your website? Who do you get permission from? Think some of these screenshots would help in explaining and promoting Torque and other games made with it.