Errors in book
by Scott Wolfe · in Torque Game Engine · 02/17/2005 (10:52 am) · 19 replies
I have not been doing this for a while and am thinking about just starting over. I only got as far ad chapter 4 when I left off but I did find a lot of errors in the book code, especially when I would type the code from the book in and it would not work and then I would use compare it to compare it with the cd code. I would find lines of code on the cd that were not in the book listings that I typed in.
This is a hard way to learn especially if you don't have much experience. I never did get chapter 4 to work.
I still think this is a good book even if you are not learning torque there are many other aspects of game programming that the book covers.
Scott wolfe
This is a hard way to learn especially if you don't have much experience. I never did get chapter 4 to work.
I still think this is a good book even if you are not learning torque there are many other aspects of game programming that the book covers.
Scott wolfe
About the author
#2
02/18/2005 (8:48 am)
I know what you mean but when you spend 2 or 3 days trying to get it it, it gets fustrating
#3
Yes, you learn more with the errors. But you learn more stuff in more time. Efficiency probably drops.
02/18/2005 (2:33 pm)
I tend to agree with Scott on this one. Sure the debugging process is healthy, but the frustration tends to turn people off of working on it. This book has a very clear goal, teaching people how to use Torque. If it had fewer errors and people could move through it quickly and easily, then they would learn the basics faster. It would also make the book better as a reference.Yes, you learn more with the errors. But you learn more stuff in more time. Efficiency probably drops.
#4
Next, what of the files kickban.cs and scriptDocs.cs? It really does not suffice simply to explain, for example...kickban.cs is for banning players from the server...that much is obvious from the name of the script....WHERE ARE THEY?
Also, Emaga5 has MANY errors in the log file when it runs...MANY. I cannot imagine that they are all attributable to my particular situation. Therefore, I want to know...does anyone have Emaga5 running with only the two missing file errors?
There is little real documentation about Torque in the book. While I understand that it is not a book about Torque per se, it is the only engine used throughout, and there should be more about the engine in there...it would make troubleshooting the numerous errors easier, and also make clear the way for using it in my own game. I really do not want to follow the convention in the book...too many scripts, too many directories.
Also, scripting is not exactly programming...why not call it "Scripting with Torque" instead? I think that would have been better. At any rate, it does not (to me) make me want to go out and license Torque tomorrow. (Fortunately, I probably will anyway...in a few months.)
I think that this book is good for trying out game ideas and artwork in a game situation once you get the game situation ironed out. (I assume...I am still trying to get Chapter 5 working without all the errors. (I went into the "bowl", and the engine somehow 'lost' me...I think it was finding clusters that were not supposed to be visible...all of the sudden the hut wall was there in the open terrain...weird. I got stuck in that phantom hut wall.)
Finally, I want to reiterate that I think the book is informative, but the editing and publishing were botched...badly botched. I am disappointed in the book as a result. Sorry, CERDIP....just MHO.
02/24/2005 (12:40 am)
First of all, I want to say that...yes, this appears to be a good book...BUT, there are far too many errors for a $50 retail book. I am not a newbie to programming, and the fixes posted are too kludgy. Did anyone at Thompson try to work the book through before it was shipped? I doubt it...very seriously.Next, what of the files kickban.cs and scriptDocs.cs? It really does not suffice simply to explain, for example...kickban.cs is for banning players from the server...that much is obvious from the name of the script....WHERE ARE THEY?
Also, Emaga5 has MANY errors in the log file when it runs...MANY. I cannot imagine that they are all attributable to my particular situation. Therefore, I want to know...does anyone have Emaga5 running with only the two missing file errors?
There is little real documentation about Torque in the book. While I understand that it is not a book about Torque per se, it is the only engine used throughout, and there should be more about the engine in there...it would make troubleshooting the numerous errors easier, and also make clear the way for using it in my own game. I really do not want to follow the convention in the book...too many scripts, too many directories.
Also, scripting is not exactly programming...why not call it "Scripting with Torque" instead? I think that would have been better. At any rate, it does not (to me) make me want to go out and license Torque tomorrow. (Fortunately, I probably will anyway...in a few months.)
I think that this book is good for trying out game ideas and artwork in a game situation once you get the game situation ironed out. (I assume...I am still trying to get Chapter 5 working without all the errors. (I went into the "bowl", and the engine somehow 'lost' me...I think it was finding clusters that were not supposed to be visible...all of the sudden the hut wall was there in the open terrain...weird. I got stuck in that phantom hut wall.)
Finally, I want to reiterate that I think the book is informative, but the editing and publishing were botched...badly botched. I am disappointed in the book as a result. Sorry, CERDIP....just MHO.
#6
The point of books like this is to instruct, and it does no one any favors to accept the types of errors in there. (I am referring to the errors in the publication of the book, not the book itself.)
Waite group books...I trust. O'Reilley books, I trust. I even trust most of Microsoft Press books. Thomson...I have reservations about...Also, any of these books in this series...I have three, and they are mostly junk.
I do like the ones that refer a little to Windows, for example, and also to DirectX, and openGL. Torque does not, after all, purport to obviate the need for knowledge of the platform, or OS...even when you are scripting. That would be very presumptuous.
I am a programmer, not an author. Errors of this magnitude would get me fired.
By the way, I think I bought that Perl book, I can't recall the exact title, but...what a shame...Perl is a great language.
02/27/2005 (1:01 am)
It is unusual for the level of error to be that great, in my experience. (20 years, and literally thousands of dollars invested in these books.) I actually have books with NO ERRORS in them...that cost a lot less.The point of books like this is to instruct, and it does no one any favors to accept the types of errors in there. (I am referring to the errors in the publication of the book, not the book itself.)
Waite group books...I trust. O'Reilley books, I trust. I even trust most of Microsoft Press books. Thomson...I have reservations about...Also, any of these books in this series...I have three, and they are mostly junk.
I do like the ones that refer a little to Windows, for example, and also to DirectX, and openGL. Torque does not, after all, purport to obviate the need for knowledge of the platform, or OS...even when you are scripting. That would be very presumptuous.
I am a programmer, not an author. Errors of this magnitude would get me fired.
By the way, I think I bought that Perl book, I can't recall the exact title, but...what a shame...Perl is a great language.
#7
At the moment I am only at Chapter 3, and it looks like number 4 is the problem area from what I see on the forums.
Oh well, keep plodding on. ;)
Ian
02/27/2005 (4:29 pm)
The main problem I find with the errors is that if I perhaps don't understand something immediately, I find my mind kind of convinces me its an error in the book, and instead of spending hours trying to figure it out, I move on. However today I have been on the forums alot and as such gotten the root of all my issues except one, which is to do with the order of transformation.At the moment I am only at Chapter 3, and it looks like number 4 is the problem area from what I see on the forums.
Oh well, keep plodding on. ;)
Ian
#8
03/22/2005 (10:05 am)
I agree the errors are compleatly unexceptable, and need to be fixed
#11
So, possibly all this errors may have to do with changes between 1.2 and the now current 1.3 version of the engine?
If this is the case, then in a way is not the author fault...
If all the errors where present with 1.2 then, that is a bad thing...
Hopefully for people that do have the book.. the can still learn a lot from it even if slowly
Probably still faster than learning Torque without this book
03/23/2005 (6:20 am)
Some time ago I posted a question about this book and relevant errors, because I was thinking to buy it, but hearing about all this errors I didn't. Anyway someone suggested that the book was written when Torque 1.2 was the current version. So, possibly all this errors may have to do with changes between 1.2 and the now current 1.3 version of the engine?
If this is the case, then in a way is not the author fault...
If all the errors where present with 1.2 then, that is a bad thing...
Hopefully for people that do have the book.. the can still learn a lot from it even if slowly
Probably still faster than learning Torque without this book
#12
Hokuto...had that been the case, naturally we would not still be talking about it as if it were anything other than what it is, which is mostly bad quality control at the publisher. The game is actually a nice one, and the work is first rate. I like the crossbow as a weapon!
I would like to say that the chapters on modeling are pretty complete, accurate and truly educational. I am currently working on them. Next, I will look into the sound chapter.
As a sidenote, I purchased "Beginning OpenGL Game Programming". (same publisher...by Dave Astle and Kevin Hawkins.) This is a very nice book. As a bonus, there are pdf files of some extra chapters...most notably, a C++ class for QuakeII MD2 models...very nice!
Another recent purchase was "The Game Artist's Guide to Maya". This comes with Alias' "Maya Personal Learning Edition", which...I do not like much. It is limited by the use of a large watermark, which is annoying when trying to model. (The watermark hides the work too much.) Maya is obviously good software...at that price, it had better be. I just wanted to be able to use it some before paying thousands of dollars for it. This is the bane of the hobbyist, I suppose. I think it is best to stick with Milkshape, Blender, and other low-cost modeling packages for now.
I think that at some point, I will organize the actual errors in the book, with fixes. I also learned by discovering mistakes...BUT, it is so much more efficient to learn to find MY mistakes, and not others'! I have tried to be clear that the book has much useful information...I am glad that I bought it. For one thing, it does cover every aspect of creating a game using inexpensive tools. Certainly, there is a model in there (not the game kind, the business kind!) for us to follow.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for chiming in...I think we all agree that it is a good book. I will try to share my experiences with the chapters after 7 later in the week. The soup can...chapter 9...that is a good quick tutorial on basic skinning with PSP. I am now working with Milkshape...you only get a month free, and I am pretty certain that it only does one frame of animation in the demo version.
03/23/2005 (8:31 pm)
Ben, I don't think that they were intentional...you can find the code in the directory named resources. There is a directory for each chapter. Otherwise, you install the code using the program on the CD. (Actually, that process causes some errors, too.) Unfortunately, there is still alot of manual typing necessary...yet another source of troubles...both in the book, and of course...programmer typing errors, too.Hokuto...had that been the case, naturally we would not still be talking about it as if it were anything other than what it is, which is mostly bad quality control at the publisher. The game is actually a nice one, and the work is first rate. I like the crossbow as a weapon!
I would like to say that the chapters on modeling are pretty complete, accurate and truly educational. I am currently working on them. Next, I will look into the sound chapter.
As a sidenote, I purchased "Beginning OpenGL Game Programming". (same publisher...by Dave Astle and Kevin Hawkins.) This is a very nice book. As a bonus, there are pdf files of some extra chapters...most notably, a C++ class for QuakeII MD2 models...very nice!
Another recent purchase was "The Game Artist's Guide to Maya". This comes with Alias' "Maya Personal Learning Edition", which...I do not like much. It is limited by the use of a large watermark, which is annoying when trying to model. (The watermark hides the work too much.) Maya is obviously good software...at that price, it had better be. I just wanted to be able to use it some before paying thousands of dollars for it. This is the bane of the hobbyist, I suppose. I think it is best to stick with Milkshape, Blender, and other low-cost modeling packages for now.
I think that at some point, I will organize the actual errors in the book, with fixes. I also learned by discovering mistakes...BUT, it is so much more efficient to learn to find MY mistakes, and not others'! I have tried to be clear that the book has much useful information...I am glad that I bought it. For one thing, it does cover every aspect of creating a game using inexpensive tools. Certainly, there is a model in there (not the game kind, the business kind!) for us to follow.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for chiming in...I think we all agree that it is a good book. I will try to share my experiences with the chapters after 7 later in the week. The soup can...chapter 9...that is a good quick tutorial on basic skinning with PSP. I am now working with Milkshape...you only get a month free, and I am pretty certain that it only does one frame of animation in the demo version.
#13
03/24/2005 (2:38 pm)
Follwoing up on what Michael Blake said, while the script errors are a bit of a problem, most of them have been documented in this forum so they should be easy to seek out and correct. Also, the sample code on the CD is often correct even though the code in hte text isn't.
#14
04/03/2005 (4:00 am)
There really isnt that many errors, if your getting that many errors you probably aren't reading it right. You can get the ebook i know some people who have got it and they jsut copy and paste the scripts no problems at all. Don't see how you people are finding so many errors i only know of 2! 
#15
04/14/2005 (3:46 pm)
Quote:You can get the ebook i know some people who have got it and they jsut copy and paste the scripts no problems at all.where do you get that? I bought the printed version. If I could download an electronic, updated version that would be great.
#16
When you insert the CD and use Autoplay and select "Install Torque", what you end up with has a RESOURCES directory which has the individual chapter directories, but you end up missing things.
So, in addition to doing the above, you need to click the "Chapter Data" from the CD autoplay app and then pick the chapter you're working on. You should then be able to find the chapter installer referenced in the book, and use that to get a starting directory which better matches what is in the book.
So far this seems to be giving me improved results and I'm on CH5 now.
04/15/2005 (9:15 pm)
I think the trick to saving yourself some frustration if you're trying to work through the book is as follows:When you insert the CD and use Autoplay and select "Install Torque", what you end up with has a RESOURCES directory which has the individual chapter directories, but you end up missing things.
So, in addition to doing the above, you need to click the "Chapter Data" from the CD autoplay app and then pick the chapter you're working on. You should then be able to find the chapter installer referenced in the book, and use that to get a starting directory which better matches what is in the book.
So far this seems to be giving me improved results and I'm on CH5 now.
#17
05/01/2005 (11:20 am)
Agreed.. this book is a mess. And.. after all this time - why is there no single place to download corrected files and corrected pages? I mean - a simple web site by the author that contains working versions or these files and .doc file with corrected code would go a long way towards making this a viable way to learn torque.. I was very excited to buy this book and looked foward to jumping into the foray... I'm just too confused now to even know what I need to do...
#18
05/01/2005 (11:32 am)
See my previous post. Yes, there are issues and some obvious disconnects between the book and the CD. You can get around them, though, with a little persistence.
#19
I will probably register Milkshape next week, and then I will get Torque after I have some models ready. I can't seem to find Qed II anymore. I used to have that, and it was great for levels, at least. I used the Torque editor, but it is somewhat different.
I was considering plugging away at it, and posting the results, but...I don't get much from that. (I have already gone down that road many times...I really do not need the practice!) It would be best for me to stick with my .plan!
05/01/2005 (2:02 pm)
I have been concentrating my efforts on learning Milkshape. The chapters on modelling are very good practical tutorials. It is clear that he knows these tools very well. The crossbow is very nice. I am making a Welrod, and I like it so far. The skinning is not right yet, but Milkshape is easy to use. By the way, there is a website for that book, but I do not have the url handy now. I think we are where we are on that....I will probably register Milkshape next week, and then I will get Torque after I have some models ready. I can't seem to find Qed II anymore. I used to have that, and it was great for levels, at least. I used the Torque editor, but it is somewhat different.
I was considering plugging away at it, and posting the results, but...I don't get much from that. (I have already gone down that road many times...I really do not need the practice!) It would be best for me to stick with my .plan!
Torque Owner Todd D. Degani
While aggrivating at times, I feel that I actually learned more from the book code not being exactly correct. It made me dig into the scripts, figure out exactly what was going on, and then figure out what was missing or what wasn't correct.