Possibilities with the Torque Engine
by Thomas Foster · in Torque Game Engine · 02/06/2005 (7:47 am) · 14 replies
Hi, I am looking for some advice about Torque and its possibilities,
I am looking into making a game (otherwise I wouldn't be here :P ) but as previous members have posted don't want to invest in an engine then find it does not meet my requirements. I am wondering if Torque will allow me to do the following:
Small RPG
- To have a small selection of NPC's that a Playing character can interact with, to gain knowledge and 'quests' or 'missions'?
- Inventory, to hold different clothing, items etc which can be activated on the character ie Someone buys a new cloak and this will then be added to the character in game
- I would prefer game text to appear in speech bubbles, and also a window
A lot of this can be found in Everquest 2 which has been a great inspiration, so I guess the question could be "Can a game like Everquest 2, not on the same level of complexity, be made using Torque?
I tried to search for some information on the following but had no luck :(
- Can Lightwave 3d v8 be used to design objects to be used in Torque?
- Can I have weapons with many different types of ammo?
- Can Currency be used in game to buy items?
My apologies if my questions are very 'newbie' but its always best to be direct to get some definitive answers :)
I am looking into making a game (otherwise I wouldn't be here :P ) but as previous members have posted don't want to invest in an engine then find it does not meet my requirements. I am wondering if Torque will allow me to do the following:
Small RPG
- To have a small selection of NPC's that a Playing character can interact with, to gain knowledge and 'quests' or 'missions'?
- Inventory, to hold different clothing, items etc which can be activated on the character ie Someone buys a new cloak and this will then be added to the character in game
- I would prefer game text to appear in speech bubbles, and also a window
A lot of this can be found in Everquest 2 which has been a great inspiration, so I guess the question could be "Can a game like Everquest 2, not on the same level of complexity, be made using Torque?
I tried to search for some information on the following but had no luck :(
- Can Lightwave 3d v8 be used to design objects to be used in Torque?
- Can I have weapons with many different types of ammo?
- Can Currency be used in game to buy items?
My apologies if my questions are very 'newbie' but its always best to be direct to get some definitive answers :)
About the author
#2
For the first three questions, there are resources available. I'm not sure if there is a dialogue bubble resource, but I'll give you a quick and dirty idea of how it could be implemented. Basically, create a mountpoint or tag where you want the dialogue bubble to appear near a specific model. This is simply an easy way to get the screen coordinates of where you want the tip of the dialogue bubble to be. Now, get the screen coordiantes of it and create a GUI dialogue. Have the reference point also be streched and skewed up to the dialogue (depending on where the chaaracter is on the screen). Viola. You have a text-interactive dialogue box. Stream the correct text/images into the dialogue that you need. Otherwise, you could extend billboards to include text elements and have them rendered in the 3D engine rather than 2D engine. Both could be beneficial. The GUI implementation for actual PC negotiated dialogue and the billboarding for NPC banter. You could even implement an Eliza emulator for NPC dialogues and give them each topics so that they could pseudo-psychoanalyze each other. But that would be really sick and wrong.
$gold = 100; // you have 100 gold.
Now, what you do with it depends on your currency system and implementation. Note that you could use a term like $currency if you have a singular currency (unlike the D&D rules which has scalable currency types for platinum, gold, silver, copper, etc). This way, you can reuse your code without confusion if you decide that you want to make a post-apocalyptic RPG or a far-future space RPG.
But let me reiterate, listen to what Anthony said. It's excellent advice.
EDIT: Grammar.
02/06/2005 (8:46 am)
Take everything in that Anthony just said. It's great advice. Not just to you, but to anyone who wants to start a RPG project in Torque.For the first three questions, there are resources available. I'm not sure if there is a dialogue bubble resource, but I'll give you a quick and dirty idea of how it could be implemented. Basically, create a mountpoint or tag where you want the dialogue bubble to appear near a specific model. This is simply an easy way to get the screen coordinates of where you want the tip of the dialogue bubble to be. Now, get the screen coordiantes of it and create a GUI dialogue. Have the reference point also be streched and skewed up to the dialogue (depending on where the chaaracter is on the screen). Viola. You have a text-interactive dialogue box. Stream the correct text/images into the dialogue that you need. Otherwise, you could extend billboards to include text elements and have them rendered in the 3D engine rather than 2D engine. Both could be beneficial. The GUI implementation for actual PC negotiated dialogue and the billboarding for NPC banter. You could even implement an Eliza emulator for NPC dialogues and give them each topics so that they could pseudo-psychoanalyze each other. But that would be really sick and wrong.
Quote:A lot of this can be found in Everquest 2 which has been a great inspiration, so I guess the question could be "Can a game like Everquest 2, not on the same level of complexity, be made using Torque?It depends on what you mean by "level of complexity". If you mean simple NPC, Mission, Inventory, Character Creattion, etc. Then, yes. It will take work and a lot of balancing and prototyping to create a nice workable system, but it can be done. In fact, a lot of it can be done completely in script. If you mean creating a MMORPG, but not quite a big as EQ2, then yes, it can be done, but expect to pay through the nose for programmers, server space, and bandwidth. Not to mention content creation artists.
Quote:- Can Lightwave 3d v8 be used to design objects to be used in Torque?There's an EXCELLENT exporter for Lightwave models. Dave takes very good care of us.
Quote:- Can I have weapons with many different types of ammo?Yes. You can even attach different particle emitters (say, fire to a "fire arrow" or ichorous smoke to a "poison arrow") to projectiles and weapons.
Quote:- Can Currency be used in game to buy items?If you can create a variable, it can be used.
$gold = 100; // you have 100 gold.
Now, what you do with it depends on your currency system and implementation. Note that you could use a term like $currency if you have a singular currency (unlike the D&D rules which has scalable currency types for platinum, gold, silver, copper, etc). This way, you can reuse your code without confusion if you decide that you want to make a post-apocalyptic RPG or a far-future space RPG.
But let me reiterate, listen to what Anthony said. It's excellent advice.
EDIT: Grammar.
#3
Indeed I do not know anything about programming, but I work differently from most people. I prefer to be put in a situation which requires me to learn something, I cant sit down and learn something and then apply it afterwards.
You are swaying me more to get my credit card out and make the purchase :)
My first aim is to make a small FPS :) keep it small and simple is my first target and then build on what I learn, I have no time line set, so it doesnt matter if it takes me 3 years, this as its just a hobby, so I dont need to recruit people, I will model, code, compose and create the entire game.. a large undertaking, but a good way to learn everything about making games.
02/06/2005 (8:48 am)
I wasnt intending on making a MMORPG.. not just yet anyway. I know they are very hard to program and when playing Everquest 2 I am amazed by it, the amount of code must be HUGE.Indeed I do not know anything about programming, but I work differently from most people. I prefer to be put in a situation which requires me to learn something, I cant sit down and learn something and then apply it afterwards.
You are swaying me more to get my credit card out and make the purchase :)
My first aim is to make a small FPS :) keep it small and simple is my first target and then build on what I learn, I have no time line set, so it doesnt matter if it takes me 3 years, this as its just a hobby, so I dont need to recruit people, I will model, code, compose and create the entire game.. a large undertaking, but a good way to learn everything about making games.
#5
Many of the "make a game" products you see in the price range TGE sits are designed to give you all of the functionality for a specific game type (or even set of game types), and then let you "connect the dots" and make a basic to medium complexity game. Of course, this has advantages:
--you can sit down and make a game quickly, and in some cases very easily, with little to no understanding of the underlying game mechanics and code.
--assuming that they give you "pre-written" functionality that matches exactly what you want to do, you can make a basic to medium complexity game relatively easily.
And, of course, it has disadvantages as well:
--if they don't provide the functionality, or at least the basic game mechanics to allow you to script the functionality, you are stuck--you won't be able to do the things you want if the designers didn't think about it ahead of you and put it into their "make a game" product.
--you really don't have any control, or even input, as to how the underlying game mechanics actually work. It's written for you, and in a large majority of the cases, not accessable for you to modify if you need to.
TGE is not a "make a game" product in the same way I described above--yes, it gives you a lot of example implementations, and a metric ton of capabilities and functionality, but it in no way restricts you to specific function sets, or algorithms/system designs that you have no control over. One of the mantras community members commonly use when responding to questions like this one is "you have the source code--you can do anything if you have the technical skills!"--and this is very much the truth.
Instead of asking questions like "can Torque do this or that", you should be asking the question, "do I have the skillset, or the time and motivation to learn the skillset, to achieve the game mechanics I want to have?"--because the answer to the first question is always a resounding YES!...it's the answer to the second question that is the decision factor.
02/06/2005 (9:18 am)
The only thing that I can add to the excellent advice both David and Anthony gave is that, based on the context and type of questions that you asked, I think that you need to change your perspective in regards to how Torque is used:Many of the "make a game" products you see in the price range TGE sits are designed to give you all of the functionality for a specific game type (or even set of game types), and then let you "connect the dots" and make a basic to medium complexity game. Of course, this has advantages:
--you can sit down and make a game quickly, and in some cases very easily, with little to no understanding of the underlying game mechanics and code.
--assuming that they give you "pre-written" functionality that matches exactly what you want to do, you can make a basic to medium complexity game relatively easily.
And, of course, it has disadvantages as well:
--if they don't provide the functionality, or at least the basic game mechanics to allow you to script the functionality, you are stuck--you won't be able to do the things you want if the designers didn't think about it ahead of you and put it into their "make a game" product.
--you really don't have any control, or even input, as to how the underlying game mechanics actually work. It's written for you, and in a large majority of the cases, not accessable for you to modify if you need to.
TGE is not a "make a game" product in the same way I described above--yes, it gives you a lot of example implementations, and a metric ton of capabilities and functionality, but it in no way restricts you to specific function sets, or algorithms/system designs that you have no control over. One of the mantras community members commonly use when responding to questions like this one is "you have the source code--you can do anything if you have the technical skills!"--and this is very much the truth.
Instead of asking questions like "can Torque do this or that", you should be asking the question, "do I have the skillset, or the time and motivation to learn the skillset, to achieve the game mechanics I want to have?"--because the answer to the first question is always a resounding YES!...it's the answer to the second question that is the decision factor.
#6
Why not be creative, make a FPS game that some how requires the use of these reources. It will help you master your skills and creativity while possibly developing something that you can reuse for your RPG game.
02/06/2005 (10:38 am)
Good to hear you want to start small, even an FPS can get very over whelling with feature creep. . .but a side not there is a conversation editor and anotherWhy not be creative, make a FPS game that some how requires the use of these reources. It will help you master your skills and creativity while possibly developing something that you can reuse for your RPG game.
#7
But I have a question concerning Lightwave [8], would this program be suitable for creating game content, in the ways of levels, models, character animations etc?
Im going to get 3D Game Programming All in One and invest in some good quality Lightwave books on texturing, modelling etc.
My question, as already said, is Lightwave suitable for creating all 3D game content for the torque engine?
02/07/2005 (1:52 pm)
Ok, im really considering getting my self involved in the torque community, it will give me a chance to learn more about 3D Graphics, Game Design, Coding, Music, Sound FX's etc.But I have a question concerning Lightwave [8], would this program be suitable for creating game content, in the ways of levels, models, character animations etc?
Im going to get 3D Game Programming All in One and invest in some good quality Lightwave books on texturing, modelling etc.
My question, as already said, is Lightwave suitable for creating all 3D game content for the torque engine?
#8
02/07/2005 (2:02 pm)
All except the diffs (interiors) which require Quark or Hammer
#9
(hammer is a valve product, is there any legal problems with using it to design levels for Torque?)
Anyone else use Lightwave to design objects etc? If so, what would be a good book to get on game content creation?
02/08/2005 (4:15 am)
I know that Quark and Hammer are needed for designing map levels, but if i am only intending on creating simple 1/2 room buildings do I need to use Quark or Hammer? (hammer is a valve product, is there any legal problems with using it to design levels for Torque?)
Anyone else use Lightwave to design objects etc? If so, what would be a good book to get on game content creation?
#10
I love LW. I use it almost every day. There's a rather old book called Game Modeling Using Low Polygon Techniques that's quite handy because it teaches some very basic, yet very handy, tricks to creating low-poly models. Personally, if you are new to LW, the Inside LW 8 book is great. The manuals are exhaustive, yet written rather nicely (as opposed to say the Final Cut Pro manuals, which are one of the most horrendous reads I've had in a long, long time). I liked the Lightwave 3D 8 Lighting and Lightwave 3D 8 Texturing books, though there's a lack of color plates which most books on texturing and lighting should have. I picked them up for half-price through sellers at Amazon, though. Lightwave 8 Killer Tips has some excellent workflow enhancements in it, too. If you're having trouble with concept art, Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is a great book to get you up and drawing, but as with any skill, you have to continue doing it to improve. While not necessarily for game content out of the box, Stop Staring: Facial Modeling and Animation Done Right is an EXCELLENT book. The author uses Maya, but what he teaches can be used in Lightwave, Max, etc.
02/08/2005 (7:28 am)
Creating small rooms is very easy in Quark. It's when you get into complex geometry that wierdness often ensues. I wouldn't use Hammer, though, for the very reason you mention.I love LW. I use it almost every day. There's a rather old book called Game Modeling Using Low Polygon Techniques that's quite handy because it teaches some very basic, yet very handy, tricks to creating low-poly models. Personally, if you are new to LW, the Inside LW 8 book is great. The manuals are exhaustive, yet written rather nicely (as opposed to say the Final Cut Pro manuals, which are one of the most horrendous reads I've had in a long, long time). I liked the Lightwave 3D 8 Lighting and Lightwave 3D 8 Texturing books, though there's a lack of color plates which most books on texturing and lighting should have. I picked them up for half-price through sellers at Amazon, though. Lightwave 8 Killer Tips has some excellent workflow enhancements in it, too. If you're having trouble with concept art, Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is a great book to get you up and drawing, but as with any skill, you have to continue doing it to improve. While not necessarily for game content out of the box, Stop Staring: Facial Modeling and Animation Done Right is an EXCELLENT book. The author uses Maya, but what he teaches can be used in Lightwave, Max, etc.
#11
Most people get overzealous and attempt to create some completely unique game with amazing aspects their first run in Torque... and they tend to fall flat on their faces (we all do at times anyways) and some get back up while others dont... in any case thats a harsh way to start...
you seem to have a good head on your shoulders though, which is more valuable than starting with a huge ammount of programming skills, in my opinion.
02/08/2005 (8:34 am)
Glad to see someone approach this the way they should, start off with a FPS maybe with a slight skew to it then progress from there... your off to a great start Tom :)Most people get overzealous and attempt to create some completely unique game with amazing aspects their first run in Torque... and they tend to fall flat on their faces (we all do at times anyways) and some get back up while others dont... in any case thats a harsh way to start...
you seem to have a good head on your shoulders though, which is more valuable than starting with a huge ammount of programming skills, in my opinion.
#12
In some of the content packs with building etc they appear to be 3ds objects. I dont understand how quark can produce such decent models etc... does QUARK have to be used to build 1 room buildings?
im sorry to sound so simple, but i really want to understand the package
02/08/2005 (2:28 pm)
I am having real trouble understanding something :(In some of the content packs with building etc they appear to be 3ds objects. I dont understand how quark can produce such decent models etc... does QUARK have to be used to build 1 room buildings?
im sorry to sound so simple, but i really want to understand the package
#13
There is a document in the resources called "BSP for Dummies". Very useful information when using Quark. Sorry I lost the link to it....just search the site for it. It might be in the docs.
02/08/2005 (3:13 pm)
Quark is free and once you "bite the bullet" to learn it...it is really easy. Just to make one room maps... I wouldn't go out and spend money on a plug-in or another program. Try it out for a couple of weeks and see if you like it, not going to hurt. There is lots of info in the resources and forums here to help you. We are currently making a very large castle with lots of rooms and have not had any problems making it into dif. In the book "3D Game Programming all in One" shows you how to make several buildings and has a copy of Quark on the cd. Try that and see if that will do what you want to do.There is a document in the resources called "BSP for Dummies". Very useful information when using Quark. Sorry I lost the link to it....just search the site for it. It might be in the docs.
#14
Me and my friends have come up with a FPS - I work in a support centre for web hosting and domain registrations and we get asked some of the stupidest questions, so we came up with the idea of creating my office in 3d and creating customers walking around wearing AOL (the worst breed of customers) tshirts, and other dumb clothing and mubling things like "forgot my username", "how do i use a computer" etc, and when they get near a computer they will go to use it but a blue screen of death will appear when they touch the mouse.
The main character will be a member of staff with a shotgun who will need to kill all these customers :)
simple, funny and could be rather interesting, espeically in relieving stress at work hehe. the game may seem rather drastic but this isnt for publishing purposes, just a way to learn :)
02/08/2005 (3:37 pm)
Its just I have lightwave, which ive been using for some time and getting to grips with it, i would really prefer to use Lightwave and export the objects as either 3ds or dts objects. Ive got quark and had a quick look at it (not very appropiate to get a good luck at what it can do i know). I think ill wait to get some more info, but it is look like i will be getting this program on my plastic friend along with some books :)Me and my friends have come up with a FPS - I work in a support centre for web hosting and domain registrations and we get asked some of the stupidest questions, so we came up with the idea of creating my office in 3d and creating customers walking around wearing AOL (the worst breed of customers) tshirts, and other dumb clothing and mubling things like "forgot my username", "how do i use a computer" etc, and when they get near a computer they will go to use it but a blue screen of death will appear when they touch the mouse.
The main character will be a member of staff with a shotgun who will need to kill all these customers :)
simple, funny and could be rather interesting, espeically in relieving stress at work hehe. the game may seem rather drastic but this isnt for publishing purposes, just a way to learn :)
Associate Anthony Rosenbaum
That isn't to say they are impossible, far from it. In fact there are resources for almost all those Items, and yes lightwave can be used.
If it isn't too bold I want to advise you on something. Game Development is a long hard road. This road starts with learning programing. When you said
That implies, to me, you have no experiance with programing. How so? Well what is "currency" in its core state currency is just a number that is attached to a player, which tends to increace of decreace. Now to imply if a number can be used in the game to buy items, implies that there is some preexisiting inventory system. The issue here is that if you had programming experiance you would understand the abstraction. The fact that I, as a programmer, make an inventory system might not have anything to do with the ideas you have for an inventory system. Mine could be a Zelda style system, while you might be more Ever quest like. They both have similar concepts but how they are executed is game specific.
To conclude, Torque is a great engine, its only constraints are of those of the programmer who uses it. If you love games, want to make games, and have zero programming skills ( as I did when I bought it) then don't question youself, buy it, you will never find a deal as great as what Garage Games is providing. In the same reguard don't shoot yourself in the foot, if you don't know how to make a game then please STAY A WAY FROM MMORPG, they are the hardest games to make. Start small, do something fun, learn how before doing "what you want". You also will need a team so start recuiting.
Just remeber
Roman wasn't built in a day.