Is TGE right for this project?
by Jonathan "Fearra" Schubkegel · in Torque Game Engine · 01/26/2005 (4:44 pm) · 12 replies
Hello. I have been browsing a few of the forums here, and investigating the TGE (along with several other 3D game engines) because me and a few of my friends are interested in creating a game that we have been planning out for quite some time. But before I put any money into buying a game engine I would like to know if Torque is the right choice for what we have in mind.
First off, there is very little programing experience among me and my friends. I am resonably well versed in 3D graphics, but when it comes to programming I know very little. Is the Torque scripting and programming easy enough for someone to start out on? How steep a learning curve is it?
Secondly I'm interested in the compatibilities of the engine when creating a space action MMO. I know the engine currently supports only 128 players, but I'm not too worried about that at this point. I'm more interested in the physics and graphics parts of the engine and whether they are capable of doing the things we want. These things would include being able to purchase new ships, outfitting and customization of ships, docking at space ports, being able to move as a character when not piloting your ship, and various other thinks like that. Basically I'm asking how limiting is the engine?
Thanks,
Jonathan
First off, there is very little programing experience among me and my friends. I am resonably well versed in 3D graphics, but when it comes to programming I know very little. Is the Torque scripting and programming easy enough for someone to start out on? How steep a learning curve is it?
Secondly I'm interested in the compatibilities of the engine when creating a space action MMO. I know the engine currently supports only 128 players, but I'm not too worried about that at this point. I'm more interested in the physics and graphics parts of the engine and whether they are capable of doing the things we want. These things would include being able to purchase new ships, outfitting and customization of ships, docking at space ports, being able to move as a character when not piloting your ship, and various other thinks like that. Basically I'm asking how limiting is the engine?
Thanks,
Jonathan
#2
It is possible, and not too hard, to force Torque past the 128 player limit also, but you can expect performance issues trying to make one server handle too much. Better to create zones (as most MMOGs do) and spread your game world out over more than one machine (with < 128 players per server).
01/27/2005 (5:49 am)
The changes to ships that you are talking about don't sound very hard. Torque is definitely the engine you are looking for. It is possible, and not too hard, to force Torque past the 128 player limit also, but you can expect performance issues trying to make one server handle too much. Better to create zones (as most MMOGs do) and spread your game world out over more than one machine (with < 128 players per server).
#3
I'm curious where you've seen mention of a 128 player limit for Torque? This seems to keep coming up.
There isn't any hard limit in the code as far as I know. The real limiting factor is your server and the amount of bandwidth you have available.
James is correct. Any of what you're asking for could be done with the engine. It really relies on your own skills. Others are working on space games and I'd recommend searching the forums to find out what they're doing.
Something else to keep in mind is that creating a MMO is more than just the graphics (client) side. There's the whole backend infrastructure that needs to be built up. I'd recommend you search the forums and see what others have found out.
- LightWave Dave
01/27/2005 (8:15 am)
Greetings!I'm curious where you've seen mention of a 128 player limit for Torque? This seems to keep coming up.
There isn't any hard limit in the code as far as I know. The real limiting factor is your server and the amount of bandwidth you have available.
James is correct. Any of what you're asking for could be done with the engine. It really relies on your own skills. Others are working on space games and I'd recommend searching the forums to find out what they're doing.
Something else to keep in mind is that creating a MMO is more than just the graphics (client) side. There's the whole backend infrastructure that needs to be built up. I'd recommend you search the forums and see what others have found out.
- LightWave Dave
#4
if you're really dedicated, I think you can probably start "hard-core" programming within 3 months...like they say, you learn by doing. You can probably find some code snipits, read what they do, and actually examine the code. It's a really beneficial process.
As to your game idea...
If you want reallly nice physics (ie if you kick a can it'll move; if you push a crate it'll move; etc) there are a few code snippits out there. One of them is the ODEItem, which in my opinion is pretty neat. I believe there's also another one out there that's an alternative to ODE...
As to mounting armor and stuff, yeah that's pretty easy to do. Torque supports mounting nodes that allow you to literally mount a shape unto an image. So mounting and unmounting armor and others is visually easy.
As to docking at space ports, I'm not sure about that, but it seems pretty easy to accomplish...i guess you could make a trigger so that if the player moves over it, the player unmounts the ship and appears outside the ship...
hope this helps!
01/27/2005 (8:27 am)
As to the learning curve, I don't know about your definition of steep, but for newb programmers like me, it took me 9 months to just get hte hang of the engine (of course, that's including the fact that i'm still a high school student and don't have a lot of time, and i've been using torque on and off...). Of course, once you get the hang of it, you'll realize it's a very powerful tool.if you're really dedicated, I think you can probably start "hard-core" programming within 3 months...like they say, you learn by doing. You can probably find some code snipits, read what they do, and actually examine the code. It's a really beneficial process.
As to your game idea...
If you want reallly nice physics (ie if you kick a can it'll move; if you push a crate it'll move; etc) there are a few code snippits out there. One of them is the ODEItem, which in my opinion is pretty neat. I believe there's also another one out there that's an alternative to ODE...
As to mounting armor and stuff, yeah that's pretty easy to do. Torque supports mounting nodes that allow you to literally mount a shape unto an image. So mounting and unmounting armor and others is visually easy.
As to docking at space ports, I'm not sure about that, but it seems pretty easy to accomplish...i guess you could make a trigger so that if the player moves over it, the player unmounts the ship and appears outside the ship...
hope this helps!
#5
You'll have to change that or find someone with that skillset if you want to build an MMO. Coding is a critical thing to get one off the ground.
01/27/2005 (9:07 am)
Quote:First off, there is very little programing experience among me and my friends.
You'll have to change that or find someone with that skillset if you want to build an MMO. Coding is a critical thing to get one off the ground.
#6
"
14. Can I create MMP games with the Torque Engine?
In it's stock state, the Torque Game Engine supports up to 128 players in a single game. Since the engine ships with source code the sky is the limit for talented developers, so there is nothing keeping you from modifying the engine to support a massively multiplayer game. Keep in mind this is a very big task that should be tackled only by C++ veterans.
"
on the same token it answers the MM question quite accurately... the only thing keeping you from making a MM game in Torque is the limit of your/ or your programmer's skills
01/27/2005 (9:16 am)
@David - I think hes seen it referenced in the Torque FAQ"
14. Can I create MMP games with the Torque Engine?
In it's stock state, the Torque Game Engine supports up to 128 players in a single game. Since the engine ships with source code the sky is the limit for talented developers, so there is nothing keeping you from modifying the engine to support a massively multiplayer game. Keep in mind this is a very big task that should be tackled only by C++ veterans.
"
on the same token it answers the MM question quite accurately... the only thing keeping you from making a MM game in Torque is the limit of your/ or your programmer's skills
#7
If you do not KNOW programming, DO NOT attempt a MMO, is it THE HARDEST GAME GENRE TO BUILD.
Start small do what you know, learn how to bring models into the game world. Also you better learn Programming, because in my experiance, you will rarely find someone who is will to create "your" game.
That being said ,Torque is the best and as others have said the true limit to the Torque game engine is YOU.
01/27/2005 (9:17 am)
I will be BLUNTIf you do not KNOW programming, DO NOT attempt a MMO, is it THE HARDEST GAME GENRE TO BUILD.
Start small do what you know, learn how to bring models into the game world. Also you better learn Programming, because in my experiance, you will rarely find someone who is will to create "your" game.
That being said ,Torque is the best and as others have said the true limit to the Torque game engine is YOU.
#8
Is there any good rescources that can introduce me to all of the programming features of the Torque engine? I know the demo has some of the programming features, but it's all very new to me. Can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial or two, showing me the basics of the Torque Demo?
01/27/2005 (3:50 pm)
Thanks for all the replies and advice. One of my friends has an older brother in second year university taking computer science, and he himself plans on taking computer science so I'm hoping the programming part of the game's gonna proceed without too large problems. Also, about the MMO aspect of the game, we are planning on using Torque's multiplayer engine to build a very small, simple MMO model, then build off of it and make it more complex from there. Hopefully once we have completed all the game content, we'll be knowledgable enough to fiddle with the 'massivly' part in 'massivly multiplayer' ;).Is there any good rescources that can introduce me to all of the programming features of the Torque engine? I know the demo has some of the programming features, but it's all very new to me. Can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial or two, showing me the basics of the Torque Demo?
#9
01/27/2005 (4:09 pm)
Click the Torque Game Engine Link under the Communtity section in the top right area of page
#10
"there is very little programing experience among me and my friends."
Don't even bother then - you need much more than this to write a game, never mind an MMPOG.
Start small and work from there. Rome wasn't built in a day.
01/27/2005 (5:43 pm)
A better idea would be for you to contribute graphics to an existing project."there is very little programing experience among me and my friends."
Don't even bother then - you need much more than this to write a game, never mind an MMPOG.
Start small and work from there. Rome wasn't built in a day.
#11
As tongue-in-cheek as that seems, I know a lot of people like that because I work at a university. They come and go, either on to bigger and better places or to getting me my McMuffin. I've even been there. Some may say I still am.
01/27/2005 (7:51 pm)
Don't depend on your friend's older brother learning what is necessary. Most likely he'll learn VB and Oracle so that he can get a high-paying job and leave his little brother's friends behind for a 401k. Or he'll smoke a lot of pot and drop out and mooch off you guys for $5 Little Caesar's pizzas while telling you that he'd program your MMOG but he had to pawn his computer for drug money.As tongue-in-cheek as that seems, I know a lot of people like that because I work at a university. They come and go, either on to bigger and better places or to getting me my McMuffin. I've even been there. Some may say I still am.
#12
I realize that a game takes a lot of work and effort (and usually twice as long as you expect), especially when starting with an engine and language you're unfamiliar with (I have worked on a few game mods). Because of this we're gonna start with a very simple player vs. player space shooter, and slowly evolve it 'till it reaches it's final goals. Hopefully this will allow us to grasp the basics, then slowly increase our skill as the game develops (pretty much a learning project that will gradually cover the making of the whole game).
01/28/2005 (12:02 am)
Thanks, I will definatly consider joining another project first to gain some experience with the engine... As for the programming aspect, I know my friend is willing (and wanting) to put in the effort to get a solid grasp of programming (I'm actually somewhat interested myself). I was talking about his brother more as a reference, and someone to confer with when perticularly difficult coding is needed.I realize that a game takes a lot of work and effort (and usually twice as long as you expect), especially when starting with an engine and language you're unfamiliar with (I have worked on a few game mods). Because of this we're gonna start with a very simple player vs. player space shooter, and slowly evolve it 'till it reaches it's final goals. Hopefully this will allow us to grasp the basics, then slowly increase our skill as the game develops (pretty much a learning project that will gradually cover the making of the whole game).
Torque 3D Owner James Steele