Help with idea for game for girls

#1 "(please don't hate me)"

rofl, sorry thats a priceless ending comment... though a subliminal request for the hate ! lol jk :)

A beautiful young woman in my team is 27 years of age, will ask her to put feedback here.

#2 I suggest searching Google for relevant articles, you're going to find some fascinating reads.

Here's just a few I stumbled across:

http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/women.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/14/business/games.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0611/p13s01-stin.html

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1995/context/archive

http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2003/04/16/genderplay_successes_and_failures_in_character_designs_for_videogames.html

I would like to throw something out here from personal experience though...

My wife and I used to play video games together a lot. Believe it or not, one of her all-time favorites to play together was Quake 2!

I noticed that her interest in Quake 3 was very short lived and that there seemed to be a corollary between the sudden appearance of scantily clad women (Mynx?) and her decline in interest. This is why I find the article talking about Samus to be particularly interesting.

There have also been countless, more involved games, that she has sat through, faithfully, helping me solve puzzles and spot villains, etc. A good example would be the entire Tomb Raider series! =)

Because of these experiences, I've developed a sort of theory that I'd like to share - not that I deem myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but ask 100 women what they want to see in a video game to interest them, and you're going to get 100 different answers. ;-)

For starters, let's look at some core gender differences. (Please note that I am working from the vaguest possible generalities possible in order to try and identify the largest possible demographic. /end P.C. Disclaimer)

Generally speaking, men relate to others through shared experience while women tend to relate more through shared emotion.

Listen to two ex soldiers relate tales of service for an example of what I mean. If one tells a story of a horrendous fire-fight he was involved in, the other is likely to share a similar experience. If the next 'tale' pertains to incompetent leadership, so too, will the next relation from the second party pertain to his experience with incompetent leadership.

What's interesting to note here is that how either party actually felt during these experiences is largely irrelevant, the experience itself is the primary focus.

Listening to two women relate is a different matter though. Not entirely different mind you, but different none-the-less.

If you take the above example and replace the en with women, you're likely to find similar results - on the surface.

What will be different about the discussion is the focus of relation. In other words, the primary focus of relation isn't really the experience itslef, although it's not irrelevant, but the feeling the experience elicited.

Sound like a subtle difference? It really isn't.

So how then does any of this relate to game development? Well, using my wife as an example again, during my forays through Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, my wife sat entranced.

I was particularly surprised that she took such an interest in such a dark themed and violent game, but she sat faithfully through the whole thing.

When I asked her about it, she said that the story was really good and that the relationships between the characters were interesting.

... Continued in next post ...

#3 Note here, that we're not talking about kissy, smoochy, romantic relationships... for god sakes, you're playing a reborne soul sucking minion of the undead! No, we're talking about the relationships between Razeal and his "siblings" for those of you who aren't familiar.

I had to agree, the story was engaging and the characters were interesting, but that's not what originally attracted me to the game, I was attracted by the game-play.

I'm going to stop now, because one could write volumes on the topic and never really "get it right", though, suffice it to say - my theroy is that to interest a woman in games, you must appeal to her intellect, part of which entails how your subject matter makes her feel.

Be engaging with your story and the relationships between them - don't be condescending or superficial or you'll insult her intelligence.

Oh yeah - CLOTHE your female characters for cripe's sake. Even I get tired of women in bikinis running around firing rockets at guys in full blown armor - how do you think a woman fells when she see's this? It's ridiculous to her, and rightfully so.

/End Novel

/Hopes I didn't offend anyone

~ Peace out

#4

Quote:Oh yeah - CLOTHE your female characters for cripe's sake. Even I get tired of women in bikinis running around firing rockets at guys in full blown armor - how do you think a woman fells when she see's this? It's ridiculous to her, and rightfully so.

As a guy, bikini armor and DDD's get tired even with us. Some people read too much Heavy Metal ;)

Adult women love puzzle games. It's a thriving part of the industry right now. So, if you have a game- even an action game- that involves a fair amount of the use of gray matter, then you might do well(I say might because the game still has to be fun). It has to be involving beyond mere "run and gun" gameplay.

My 2 cents..

#5

Quote:It has to be involving beyond mere "run and gun" gameplay.

Agreed - this was the primary interest for my wife with the Tomb Raider series - puzzles.

My wife, and I think a large number of women (as indicated by the growing popularity of puzzle games) enjoy problem solving.

Personally, I like to blow stuff up, but then I'm a little more primal that way, and I think more men than women tend to be.

#6 What i learned from Gender Inclusive Game Design is that it's more important to not exclude female players thru hyper-sexualized representations of women. If all game characters were half nude men in tight fitting underwear spouting sexually suggestive remarks I don't think I would be that interested in games either.

Other than that your teacher gave you an extremely difficult mission... the industry hasn't even figured this out yet. What you will hear alot of is "women like puzzles" which IMO is a bad stereotype in itself.

#7 Well... that book just rocketed to the top of my "must read" list - purely based on the introductory pages provided. =)

Thanks for sharing. =D

#8 IMO don't look at the problem as what women like to play. Look at what everyone likes to play. Look at games like the Mario franchise, Party games, The Sims(except for me) , Bejeweled, Tetris, Pac-Man etc. Look at what makes those games great, like :

Easy to play challenging to master
Doesn't take up your life unless you want it to
Not geared toward a player's sex
Fun Factor, not Accomplishment Factor
Games that can be played socially

#9 Here's a single data point for you, which is probably meaningless in the greater scheme of things:

A) Games My Girlfriend Currently Enjoys Or Has Recently Enjoyed
[she has an XBox, a PS2, and a PC from alienware]:

1) WoW. She enjoys that whole switch-armor-see-it-on-screen thing, and has a vast collection of funky looking armor & weapons. She also loves playing with other people, most of whom she knows from real life or playing other games online. Actually, I'm currently pretty much a Warcraft Widow.
2) LOTR 3rd Age and Final Fantasy. She seems to really enjoy turn-based strategy. God Only Knows Why, it's one of the most mind-numbing game types out there
3) KOTOR
4) City of Heroes [but dumped it completely in favor of WoW]
5) Halo & Halo2

Themes here include co-op, planning, strategy, and storyline.


B) Games My Girlfriend Doesn't Enjoy Or Dislikes For Some Reason:

1) Orbz. Apparently, it's too simple and boring and there's nothing to do. [She's wrong :-)]
2) Most FPSs. She doesn't want to play anything /against/ me. Only games she can play on my side, as something more than a random-shooting buddy. Halo has a degree of teamplay not so easily evinced on most of the FPSs that I've played.
3) Alias. She hates sneaking games.
4) Anything whose premise is sex. The Man Game, Lesuire Suit Larry... In fact, when we go into EB the sight of these games will get her angry on it's own.
5) Gish. Looks too boring, or something.

Themes here include things with "sucky" graphics, mindless blasting, sex, and slow gameplay.

She's also, I believe, enjoyed the Sims in the past, but that was before I knew her.

Gary (-;

#10 If the assignment is to analyze what women like in games, why are people advising to look at what everyone likes in games? Those are two psychology problems with totally different answers. If you look at what women like you will get stories with good character dynamic and emotion incl. romance, creative problem solving such as in adventure games, and an emphasis on being helpful/constructive such as in a nurturing sim(tamagotchi) or a bishounen dating sim. OTOH if you look at what everyone likes to play you see single/multiplayer games which don't have the ability to save your game, don't have difficult puzzles, and do have a speed/action style of play.

My advice: look at both and notice the difference between what men like more, what women like more, and what everyone likes. There's nothing offensive about doing market research and designing a product for a niche audience uness people are particularly stupid about it (I know, how about Barbie Mortal KatFight? ;) )

#11 "Barbie Mortal KatFight"

How about Bikini Karate Babes?

Gary (-;

#12 I don't have a girlfriend...poo...

lol, but i do have a younger sister. She enjoys playing DDR, and a lot of puzzle games. My mom also enjoys games (sometimes). She likes any game that has a lot of action as well as thinking...so I guess that falls under the genre of smart-fps?

#13

Quote:How about Bikini Karate Babes?

LMAO! Yeah, that will go over like a lead ballon. =P

There's an MMO currently in development that I think has the goods on appealing more to females in general.

Granted, the MMO market is arguably niche' as it currently stands, but the premise upon which they are basing there game-play seems to fit the criteria we're seeing repeated in many of these analysis.

It's called Seed: The Human Condition.

This one isn't being marketed directly at the female demographic (so far), but certainly fulfills much of the criteria discussed previously.

I have been, and will continue to keep my eye on this one.

#14 Mabye a Women as the hero along with a little romance and fighting.

#15 Is this a programming class or a sociology class? If it is a programming class, then this is a ridiculous assignment. It is not design, it is social engineering. If you set out to make "games for females", you will fail. That is not a category of interest.

However, if you are forced to make something up, the current downloadable scene (Yahoo, Shockwave, Real) has a significant female audience. The largest demographic is 41 year old female.

#16 @Gary
Catfight had better gameplay. But that's not saying much.

One thing that I've noticed with a number of my friends who are women and enjoy gaming is that they enjoy either a quick-in, quick-out game such as most arcade games, puzzle games, etc. Or else they like games that allow massive customization such as MMORPG's or things like the Sims or Sim City. A lot of women I know loved games like Final Fantasy for the characters and the stories, but hated the endless stream of RPG filler.

I think the big thing about the arcade/puzzle games that most every woman I know enjoys (things like Tetris, Mario, Pac-Man, etc) is that they are games that most people I know enjoy. Zelda's another big one, though Wind Waker annoyed most everyone I know with long sea-going fetch quests in the later parts of the game.

Jess Bates had some very interesting things to say on Gamasutra about this issue and the normal preconception that people have when looking at what women like in videogames.

#17 I think that any girl into videogames won't care what the subject matter is as long as it's fun.

In the meantime, I'll try to direct the girls in Trillaem over here.

#18 I'd really throw this back at the teacher and make them defend this project. (course you should probably not take academic advice from me) What the hell kind of project is this? Make a game for girls? What ever happened to "make a good game." Seriously, this is really stupid. You just make a good game, don't fill it full of totally male-driven shiny things, and you have a game that girls will play.

Personally, I'd go the sarcastic route. Fill your game idea with the most steriotypes possible (hell even make it refuse to save your progress once a month) and then get up there and present it with a straight face. Then at the end when everyone is like "WTF" just say, "What, so we can't figure out how to make a good game, so instead let's try to make a game that girls will buy to sell copies, huh?"

#19 I think the purpose of the exercise is to get would-be designers thinking on a broader scale.

He did state that the object was to present a concept that would appeal to women 25-30.

I recieved many assignments during my acedemic career that were merely assigned to illustrate a point.

Heck, if I were teaching a game design class, I'd assign this just to point out the absence of the demographic - for whatever reason. =)

Having said all of that, I say you should go with Pat's proposal. Seeing the looks on the faces of your peers and the professor would be worth it... and you'd have a story to tell for the rest of your life! LOL.

#20

Quote:One thing that I've noticed with a number of my friends who are women and enjoy gaming is that they enjoy either a quick-in, quick-out game such as most arcade games, puzzle games, etc.

Interestingly, that's recently become one of the things that *I* look for in a game. If I sink 50 hours into another game, 4 hours at a time... *grrr*.

Damn You, Wind Waker, Spiderman2, Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker...

Actually, that's not fair. Now that I've mostly beaten Spiderman2 [~93% at time of writing], it's pick-up-put-down because I'm working on the challenges. But while I was in the story part of the game? owie.

Luckily, Orbz is just about right, for this. Marble Blast suffered from "just gonna finish this one level" syndrome, and gish suffers from "just one more level" syndrome, but one or two Orbz matches is just about right for me.

Gary (-;