I'm a new programer whats the best thing to get first?
by Aerok · in General Discussion · 01/23/2005 (5:16 pm) · 9 replies
Also, where or what is the best thing to teach me?
About the author
#2
01/23/2005 (6:18 pm)
Well I'm going to be buying the torque engine because that's the best thing i've found, general gaming and torque
#3
01/23/2005 (6:27 pm)
Uh that site is all about hacking, I'm looking for programing
#4
01/23/2005 (6:30 pm)
Step 1: You must adjust your definition of what "hacking" is. Hacking belonged to programmers long before the media took it over and turned it into a bad thing.
#5
If you have never done any programming (c++, FORTRAN, BASIC?), consider getting Ken Finney's book: 3D Game Programming All-In-One, which will teach you step by step about the basics of using Torque. If you are already a competent programmer in other languages, then you probably won't need Ken's book.
Go to this page. There are two manuals and many tutorials. One of the manuals is only available after you buy Torque, and the other is partly available to the public (the rest is available after buying).
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/
I recommend the codesampler tutorials in particular.
www.codesampler.com/torque
Oh, and make sure to study this carefully. It's not specifically about Torque, but it will make you an expert on how to use a forum. Might seem trivial at first, but it will help you learn a lot faster by getting you more help from other users.
www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
01/23/2005 (6:51 pm)
If you have already decided to buy Torque, then I recommend getting it sooner rather than later so you have access to more documentation. If you are not quite certain then just ignore this first piece of advice.If you have never done any programming (c++, FORTRAN, BASIC?), consider getting Ken Finney's book: 3D Game Programming All-In-One, which will teach you step by step about the basics of using Torque. If you are already a competent programmer in other languages, then you probably won't need Ken's book.
Go to this page. There are two manuals and many tutorials. One of the manuals is only available after you buy Torque, and the other is partly available to the public (the rest is available after buying).
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/
I recommend the codesampler tutorials in particular.
www.codesampler.com/torque
Oh, and make sure to study this carefully. It's not specifically about Torque, but it will make you an expert on how to use a forum. Might seem trivial at first, but it will help you learn a lot faster by getting you more help from other users.
www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
#6
01/23/2005 (7:20 pm)
First thing you need to learn is what the proper definitions for techical jargon is, then you can begin to understand what programmers are talking about.
#7
Second off, how do you learn new things? That's an important question, because people are fundamentally different in their abilities to pick up information. If someone's having a hard time in school, that doesn't mean he's dumb, or unmotivated, it might just be that the machine age educational systems won't adapt to the student's learning needs. Ackoff talks about this in Redesigning the Future (Wiley, 1974).
I learn by teaching, and once I discovered that, I have an easier time learning new things.
Now, programming is huge complicated things - you need to, bit by bit, fit your mind around it. The concept of programming a computer by conventional means is so big it's like having to eat an entire elephant. You can't do it in one sitting, you need to go through it one McDumbo at a time.
I don't want to scare you, but learning to program takes a long time, learning to program games might take years.
But, if you have insight into how you learn new things, you can use that to master programming quicker.
I thought I knew how to program before I started college; I knew the syntax of many languages, I sort of understood object oriented design, I had just finished a simple high-end raytracer when I started my first classes in programming. But now, I have a much stronger grasp of programming, not just simple little one-man projects, but real applications, real systems.
Some people thrive in academic environments, some people sit at home, in their study, reading a book or checking out tutorials on the internet, you really need to find out what kind of learning you are.
I sure hope this post won't come off as patronizing to anyone who reads it, or implying that you lack the ability to introspect - I just want to add my personal experiences to the mix.
01/24/2005 (3:52 am)
First off, "The basic difference is this: hackers build things, crackers break them.", straight from the how to become and awesome programmer webpage.Second off, how do you learn new things? That's an important question, because people are fundamentally different in their abilities to pick up information. If someone's having a hard time in school, that doesn't mean he's dumb, or unmotivated, it might just be that the machine age educational systems won't adapt to the student's learning needs. Ackoff talks about this in Redesigning the Future (Wiley, 1974).
I learn by teaching, and once I discovered that, I have an easier time learning new things.
Now, programming is huge complicated things - you need to, bit by bit, fit your mind around it. The concept of programming a computer by conventional means is so big it's like having to eat an entire elephant. You can't do it in one sitting, you need to go through it one McDumbo at a time.
I don't want to scare you, but learning to program takes a long time, learning to program games might take years.
But, if you have insight into how you learn new things, you can use that to master programming quicker.
I thought I knew how to program before I started college; I knew the syntax of many languages, I sort of understood object oriented design, I had just finished a simple high-end raytracer when I started my first classes in programming. But now, I have a much stronger grasp of programming, not just simple little one-man projects, but real applications, real systems.
Some people thrive in academic environments, some people sit at home, in their study, reading a book or checking out tutorials on the internet, you really need to find out what kind of learning you are.
I sure hope this post won't come off as patronizing to anyone who reads it, or implying that you lack the ability to introspect - I just want to add my personal experiences to the mix.
#8
First off, you'll need a programming language.
TorqueScript is a programming language - so you can technically use that one - though I'd recommend a more general-purpose language. BASIC used to be the 'beginners' language (it stands for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code). While it's probably not the best choice today, it's still a good option and there are some modern versions of Basic floating around. You can use Microsoft's Visual Basic, or go with a very gaming-specific version of basic with DarkBasic or Blitz3d. None of these have a whole lot in common with good ol'-fashioned Basic from what I can tell, though.
Another option I'm fond of is Python. It's easy, it's free, it's extremely powerful, and at least as a scripting engine it's getting used in several commercial games now. Check out www.python.org/moin/GameProgramming for information specific to Python game development. There are also tons of tutorials, books, and other resources that you can find to help you learn to program in Python, so it's a good way to start.
Java is another free language that used to be popular. It's been losing steam lately, but they do have some libraries for game programming.
"Real" programmers still tend to do it in C / C++, partly because there's a TON of legacy code and libraries and support for these languages out now. And Torque is written in C++. The best environment (in Windows, at least) for C / C++ development is still Microsoft's Visual Studio, though I'm sure folks will be quick to chime in with other (hopefully cheaper) suggestions. Visual Studio also gives you C#, Visual Basic, and Visual J# (Java).
If you are going to be using Torque, you'll probably be limited to Torquescript for a while, because the core Torque library is NOT very accessible by beginners. This will limit what you can do with Torque to some degree, though with all these "starter kits" now or soon available (not to mention additional resources), that hopefully won't be too restrictive. If you are serious about Torque, you'll have to do the C++ thing. This means locating an Appropriate compiler and development environment, and probably picking up a book on teaching yourself C++ programming.
You'll need to get the basics down ... there's nothing about game programming that's that significantly different from any other kind of programming.
Once you've decided where you are going to start from these options, then there should be a wealth of information on taking the next step.
01/24/2005 (10:18 am)
Assuming you've got a gaming focus for programming (a pretty safe assumption, considering the community), Visit www.indiewiki.org/index.php?GameProgrammingFirst off, you'll need a programming language.
TorqueScript is a programming language - so you can technically use that one - though I'd recommend a more general-purpose language. BASIC used to be the 'beginners' language (it stands for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code). While it's probably not the best choice today, it's still a good option and there are some modern versions of Basic floating around. You can use Microsoft's Visual Basic, or go with a very gaming-specific version of basic with DarkBasic or Blitz3d. None of these have a whole lot in common with good ol'-fashioned Basic from what I can tell, though.
Another option I'm fond of is Python. It's easy, it's free, it's extremely powerful, and at least as a scripting engine it's getting used in several commercial games now. Check out www.python.org/moin/GameProgramming for information specific to Python game development. There are also tons of tutorials, books, and other resources that you can find to help you learn to program in Python, so it's a good way to start.
Java is another free language that used to be popular. It's been losing steam lately, but they do have some libraries for game programming.
"Real" programmers still tend to do it in C / C++, partly because there's a TON of legacy code and libraries and support for these languages out now. And Torque is written in C++. The best environment (in Windows, at least) for C / C++ development is still Microsoft's Visual Studio, though I'm sure folks will be quick to chime in with other (hopefully cheaper) suggestions. Visual Studio also gives you C#, Visual Basic, and Visual J# (Java).
If you are going to be using Torque, you'll probably be limited to Torquescript for a while, because the core Torque library is NOT very accessible by beginners. This will limit what you can do with Torque to some degree, though with all these "starter kits" now or soon available (not to mention additional resources), that hopefully won't be too restrictive. If you are serious about Torque, you'll have to do the C++ thing. This means locating an Appropriate compiler and development environment, and probably picking up a book on teaching yourself C++ programming.
You'll need to get the basics down ... there's nothing about game programming that's that significantly different from any other kind of programming.
Once you've decided where you are going to start from these options, then there should be a wealth of information on taking the next step.
#9
Take existing things and change them is a good way to learn, which is why I say TorqueScript if you are going to focus on game development.
01/24/2005 (12:36 pm)
I suggest using TorqueScript, or Ruby or some other interpreted and free language to help you get used to the concept of programming. This will let you avoid all the strangeness of compilers and such and get you associated with the thought processes that are involved.Take existing things and change them is a good way to learn, which is why I say TorqueScript if you are going to focus on game development.
Torque Owner Eric Lavigne
Game programming (probably considering the website you came to)?
Game programming for Torque specifically (product sold on this page)?
Or maybe you just want to become a programmer in general and want some advice?
If the last one is what you want, try this website:
How to become an awesome programmer
If you are looking for some other kind of advice, please be more specific.