Torque Pipeline DIF export for Cartography Shop
by Tom Spilman · in Artist Corner · 01/03/2005 (11:33 am) · 49 replies
It's time to get this into your hands.
Torque Pipeline for Cartography Shop is a DIF exporter for the Torque Game Engine and the new Torque Shader Engine as a Cartography Shop 4.1 plugin. It adds CartShop support for all Torque entities including lights, portals, collision volumes, detail brushes, and even the new TSE light brushes. It's simple to use and comes with an easy to read html help file.
I've tested it pretty thoroughly over the last few weeks, but i wanted to get feedback from the community. You can get more feature details and download the public beta on our site. The beta is time limited and will expire on 3/1/2005.
If you have issues, questions, or comments either post them here or on our forums.
Torque Pipeline for Cartography Shop is a DIF exporter for the Torque Game Engine and the new Torque Shader Engine as a Cartography Shop 4.1 plugin. It adds CartShop support for all Torque entities including lights, portals, collision volumes, detail brushes, and even the new TSE light brushes. It's simple to use and comes with an easy to read html help file.
I've tested it pretty thoroughly over the last few weeks, but i wanted to get feedback from the community. You can get more feature details and download the public beta on our site. The beta is time limited and will expire on 3/1/2005.
If you have issues, questions, or comments either post them here or on our forums.
About the author
Tom is a programmer and co-owner of Sickhead Games, LLC.
#2
01/03/2005 (12:44 pm)
Nice, don't own cartography, just download demo, looks really good same as worldcraft, with this tool it seems a good choice and skip quark.
#4
01/05/2005 (3:14 am)
Hey wow, this is great! Thanks Tom!
#5
This won't export just *any* geometry in CartShop. If the geometry isn't normal CSG geometry (box, wedge, cylinder, cone, wall or created from a carve or hollow) things may break in an ugly fashion. That 1 sided wall tool or stuff imported via the prefab maker are the most likely suspects, but it's always possible to vertex edit something into a concave shape that won't export. I plan to add a warning for this in the future.
People still get confused by the "cant find texture" message on export. I need to find an elegant solution for that. Most likely doing some sort of smart copy of source CartShop textures into the dest path without overwriting different textures of the same name.
Make sure if your using the Torque Shader Engine you check off the 'TSE Compatible' checkbox. I guess that option is easy to miss and if you don't the DIF created will just crash Torque... no error messages or anything. This is because even though the DIF format has changed, but they have not updated the format version number which it checks before loading the file.
01/05/2005 (8:22 am)
A couple of caveats that i failed to plainly point out in the docs.This won't export just *any* geometry in CartShop. If the geometry isn't normal CSG geometry (box, wedge, cylinder, cone, wall or created from a carve or hollow) things may break in an ugly fashion. That 1 sided wall tool or stuff imported via the prefab maker are the most likely suspects, but it's always possible to vertex edit something into a concave shape that won't export. I plan to add a warning for this in the future.
People still get confused by the "cant find texture" message on export. I need to find an elegant solution for that. Most likely doing some sort of smart copy of source CartShop textures into the dest path without overwriting different textures of the same name.
Make sure if your using the Torque Shader Engine you check off the 'TSE Compatible' checkbox. I guess that option is easy to miss and if you don't the DIF created will just crash Torque... no error messages or anything. This is because even though the DIF format has changed, but they have not updated the format version number which it checks before loading the file.
#6
01/05/2005 (9:15 am)
Quote:This won't export just *any* geometry in CartShop.Exactly the same problem I experienced with the DeleD .map exporter.
#7
I'll have to look into DeleD as i'm not familiar with it.
The problem here is that CartShop tries to straddle the line between a CSG modeler and traditional triangle based modelers. The "prefab maker" being the main culprit as you can import any X or 3DS file into CartShop. In the next release i plan on detecting non-convex geometry and just skip over it, but I'm working with Josh to ensure that CartShop5 keeps these two styles of modeling clearly separate for the user.
01/05/2005 (9:58 am)
Quote:Exactly the same problem I experienced with the DeleD .map exporter.
I'll have to look into DeleD as i'm not familiar with it.
The problem here is that CartShop tries to straddle the line between a CSG modeler and traditional triangle based modelers. The "prefab maker" being the main culprit as you can import any X or 3DS file into CartShop. In the next release i plan on detecting non-convex geometry and just skip over it, but I'm working with Josh to ensure that CartShop5 keeps these two styles of modeling clearly separate for the user.
#8
Being a CShop owner, I know that in fact both programs are not content with being an easy to use modeler but strive for advanced options.
Form a development standpoint this is the way to go, so Kudos to both Josh and Jeroen. From a map2dif/TGE perspective it would be great if there was a program that just added primitives to more complex objects and prefabs were just groups of these easy geometries.
01/05/2005 (10:19 am)
Again: exactly the same. The prefabs in DeleD are merged objects, so even if you carefully added convex primitives - after they are merged they are convex.Being a CShop owner, I know that in fact both programs are not content with being an easy to use modeler but strive for advanced options.
Form a development standpoint this is the way to go, so Kudos to both Josh and Jeroen. From a map2dif/TGE perspective it would be great if there was a program that just added primitives to more complex objects and prefabs were just groups of these easy geometries.
#9
In fact i've already talked to Josh and as i last spoke to him a DTS importer for these mesh instances will be possible. If i then get subobject DTS instances working thru the DIF exporter we have an almost UnrealEd like editing process for interiors.
This is basically my big feature for the CartShop5 version of this plugin.
01/05/2005 (11:23 am)
Quote:Being a CShop owner, I know that in fact both programs are not content with being an easy to use modeler but strive for advanced options.There is a wrong way and a right way to attain those advanced features. Josh seems to be taking the right approach by using UnrealEd as an example. In CS5 the prefabs will become like unreal "static meshes" or in Torque speak DTS shapes. This is a concept that should apply well to any modern 3d engine like Torque and should keep the scene organized into BSP, entities, and mesh instances.
In fact i've already talked to Josh and as i last spoke to him a DTS importer for these mesh instances will be possible. If i then get subobject DTS instances working thru the DIF exporter we have an almost UnrealEd like editing process for interiors.
This is basically my big feature for the CartShop5 version of this plugin.
#10
I remember a discussion in the GG forums (can't remember where) how something like the Unreal-type static meshes for the Torque engine were discussed. As far as I remember, the result was that you have to change the TGE code to make it load a mixture of DIF models and DTS 'static meshes'. How will you handle this?
01/05/2005 (11:31 am)
Quote:If i then get subobject DTS instances working thru the DIF exporter we have an almost UnrealEd like editing process for interiors.
I remember a discussion in the GG forums (can't remember where) how something like the Unreal-type static meshes for the Torque engine were discussed. As far as I remember, the result was that you have to change the TGE code to make it load a mixture of DIF models and DTS 'static meshes'. How will you handle this?
#11
Any way it goes it will involve changes to the Torque runtime engine code.
01/05/2005 (11:51 am)
Quote:As far as I remember, the result was that you have to change the TGE code to make it load a mixture of DIF models and DTS 'static meshes'. How will you handle this?My understanding is that the old "SubObject" member of interiors (old because it's been removed in TSE) is the best bet to getting it in there. Worst case I will change the code and provide a patch with my plugin that you'll have to apply if you export and DTS instances with your DIF. I'll be sure to talk about this issue with Brian and Ben, so the best case is that the patch gets merged into TSE head.
Any way it goes it will involve changes to the Torque runtime engine code.
#12
I have a couple questions:
- How much will the final version of this exporter cost?
- This exports straight to .dif format from CS? No in-between programs are necessary? And it works for both TGE and TSE?
- When will CS5 be released?
Thanks!
01/05/2005 (4:01 pm)
I don't have CS yet, but I've played with the demo and it's very useable so far.I have a couple questions:
- How much will the final version of this exporter cost?
- This exports straight to .dif format from CS? No in-between programs are necessary? And it works for both TGE and TSE?
- When will CS5 be released?
Thanks!
#13
@Timothy Aste,
What level-editor/programs were used to make the buildings/interiors for your content packs?
01/05/2005 (4:10 pm)
Sorry, forgot to add this:@Timothy Aste,
What level-editor/programs were used to make the buildings/interiors for your content packs?
#14
We haven't set a price if any at all. It depends on demand on my time, but i suspect if we charge it would be between $7 and $10.
That was the main thing i wanted... no command line in-between steps. You can export a DIF via a GUI right from CShop. The code is based on TSE, but it was an easy fix to add TGE compatibility. So yes it exports both from the same plugin. I guess my marketing needs screenshots.
No clue really. Josh has started integrating physics and other stuff so the end of 2004 deadline is out the window now. Once i know more i'll post it here.
01/05/2005 (4:46 pm)
@WillQuote:How much will the final version of this exporter cost?
We haven't set a price if any at all. It depends on demand on my time, but i suspect if we charge it would be between $7 and $10.
Quote:This exports straight to .dif format from CS? No in-between programs are necessary? And it works for both TGE and TSE?
That was the main thing i wanted... no command line in-between steps. You can export a DIF via a GUI right from CShop. The code is based on TSE, but it was an easy fix to add TGE compatibility. So yes it exports both from the same plugin. I guess my marketing needs screenshots.
Quote:When will CS5 be released?
No clue really. Josh has started integrating physics and other stuff so the end of 2004 deadline is out the window now. Once i know more i'll post it here.
#15
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way to test your exporter without owning the full version of CS, right?
EDIT --
Screenshots would be great!
Also, re marketing, a fully working, free sample level/map for torque, constructed completely in CS and exported to DIF, showing all features, etc. would be an excellent way to market this exporter, IMO!
01/05/2005 (5:45 pm)
Thanks for the info.Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no way to test your exporter without owning the full version of CS, right?
EDIT --
Screenshots would be great!
Also, re marketing, a fully working, free sample level/map for torque, constructed completely in CS and exported to DIF, showing all features, etc. would be an excellent way to market this exporter, IMO!
#16
Kind Regards,
Sean
01/05/2005 (6:21 pm)
I am very interested in this app as well... I would be interested in some screen shots, and maybe sending you a map for exporting?Kind Regards,
Sean
#17
@Sean - Well if you have a CSM for exporting i suspect you own CartShop and should be able to use the beta yourself. The exporter only works from a map already loaded into Cartography Shop.
01/06/2005 (3:56 am)
@Will - Yea the exporter will only work with the full version of CartShop. Russell will be getting to work on a level with CartShop and our plugin this week. We plan on doing some screenshots, a "dev snapshot", and we can probably even release the CSM and final DIF.@Sean - Well if you have a CSM for exporting i suspect you own CartShop and should be able to use the beta yourself. The exporter only works from a map already loaded into Cartography Shop.
#18
any info on advantages of CShop over Quark ?
edit: btw any input is greatly appreciated, only asking here rather than taking CShop's marketing features due to the limitations of using it with TGE, considering your experience in testing between the two your source of information is probably my best bet at true advantages :) btw great work ! love the idea of having an UnrealEd type TGE environment,a lways liked UnrealEd's feel.
01/06/2005 (6:52 am)
I agree a full example would be great... I'm very interested in this also, though a bit unsure as to what true advantages CShop has over Quark... other than interface quirks ? I don't mind interface quirks, I think spending extra time to get to know how to manipulate things is good, though if CShop has a disquingishable advantage over Quark then you'll likely have a customer here ...any info on advantages of CShop over Quark ?
edit: btw any input is greatly appreciated, only asking here rather than taking CShop's marketing features due to the limitations of using it with TGE, considering your experience in testing between the two your source of information is probably my best bet at true advantages :) btw great work ! love the idea of having an UnrealEd type TGE environment,a lways liked UnrealEd's feel.
#19
The only advantage i'm aware of at the moment is ease of use. For me this is a huge advantage as the time and hair pulling spent on interface quirks could be better spent on a new feature.
The real meat will begin to show with CartShop5. Not only will there be placement of DTS instances, but terrain and physics rigging. If Josh does the things he's announced i see a possibility of CartShop5 being a one stop mission editor for Torque. We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out.
01/06/2005 (10:54 am)
Quote:any info on advantages of CShop over Quark?
The only advantage i'm aware of at the moment is ease of use. For me this is a huge advantage as the time and hair pulling spent on interface quirks could be better spent on a new feature.
The real meat will begin to show with CartShop5. Not only will there be placement of DTS instances, but terrain and physics rigging. If Josh does the things he's announced i see a possibility of CartShop5 being a one stop mission editor for Torque. We'll just have to wait and see how it shakes out.
#20
Guess I need to just get into CShop and mess around some, see if its work and feel is worth the extra 65 bucks ...
so far does the exporter have all the main features that Quark supports ?
01/06/2005 (11:07 am)
Hmm very interesting... thats pretty exciting, even if it does take engine modifications as you mention...Guess I need to just get into CShop and mess around some, see if its work and feel is worth the extra 65 bucks ...
so far does the exporter have all the main features that Quark supports ?
Torque 3D Owner dsfsd